MONDAY, December 3, 1810.
This being the day appointed by the constitution for the meeting
of Congress, the following members of the House of Representatives
appeared and took their seats, to wit:
_From New Hampshire_--James Wilson.
_From Massachusetts_--Ezekiel Bacon, William Ely, and Joseph B.
Varnum, _Speaker_.
_From Vermont_--Samuel Shaw.
_From Connecticut_--Epaphroditus Champion, John Davenport, jr.,
Jonathan O. Mosely, Timothy Pitkin, jr., and Benjamin Tallmadge.
_From New York_--James Emott, Jonathan Fisk, Robert Le Roy
Livingston, Erastus Root, Thomas Sammons, John Thompson, Uri
Tracy, and Killian K. Van Rensselaer.
_From New Jersey_--Adam Boyd, Jacob Hufty, and Henry Southard.
_From, Pennsylvania_--William Anderson, David Bard, Robert
Brown, William Crawford, William Findlay, Daniel Heister,
Aaron Lyle, William Milnor, John Rea, Matthias Richards, Adam
Seybert, John Smilie, George Smith, Samuel Smith, and Robert
Whitehill.
_From Maryland_--Charles Goldsborough, Alexander McKim, Philip
B. Key, Archibald Van Horne, John Montgomery, and Nicholas R.
Moore.
_From Virginia_--James Breckinridge, William A. Burwell,
Matthew Clay, John Dawson, David S. Garland, Thomas Gholson,
Peterson, Goodwyn, Joseph Lewis, jr., Thomas Newton, John
Roane, and James Stephenson.
_From North Carolina_--Willis Alston, jr., James Cochran, James
Holland, Thomas Kenan, Nathaniel Macon, Archibald McBryde,
Joseph Pearson, Richard Stanford, and John Stanley.
_From South Carolina_--Lemuel J. Alston, William Butler, Joseph
Calhoun, Thomas Moore, John Taylor, and Robert Witherspoon,.
_From Georgia_--William W. Bibb, Howell Cobb, and George M.
Troup.
_From Kentucky_--Joseph Desha, Richard M. Johnson, and Samuel
McKee.
_From Tennessee_--Pleasant M. Miller, John Rhea, and Robert
Weakley.
_From Ohio_--Jeremiah Morrow.
Several new members, to wit: from Connecticut, EBENEZER HUNTINGTON,
returned to serve in the place of Samuel W. Dana, appointed a Senator
of the United States; from New Jersey, JOHN A. SCUDDER, in the place
of James Cox, deceased; and from Maryland, ROBERT WRIGHT, in the place
of John Brown, resigned; appeared, produced their credentials, were
qualified, and took their seats.
A quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole House, being present,
the Clerk of the House was directed to acquaint the Senate therewith.
On motion of Mr. DAWSON, a committee was appointed on the part of the
House, jointly with the committee appointed on the part of the Senate,
to wait on the President of the United States, and inform him that
a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any
communications he may be pleased to make to them.
The Clerk of the House was directed to procure newspapers from any
number of offices that the members may elect, provided that the expense
do not exceed the amount of three daily papers.
The House then adjourned until to-morrow morning eleven o'clock.
TUESDAY, December 4.
Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, RICHARD CUTTS,
EBENEZER SEAVER, and CHARLES TURNER, jr.; from Rhode Island, ELISHA
R. POTTER; from New York, THOMAS R. GOLD; from Pennsylvania, ROBERT
JENKINS; and from Virginia, BURWELL BASSETT and JOHN W. EPPES,
appeared, and took their seats in the House.
A new member, to wit, from New York, SAMUEL L. MITCHILL, returned to
serve in the place of William Denning, resigned, appeared, produced his
credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.
JONATHAN JENNINGS, the Delegate from the Indiana Territory, and JULIAN
POYDRAS, the Delegate from the Territory of Orleans, appeared, and took
their seats.
A message from the Senate informed the House that a quorum of the
Senate is assembled, and ready to proceed to business. They have
appointed a committee on their part, jointly with the committee
appointed on the part of this House, to inform the President of the
United States, that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready
to receive any communications that he may be pleased to make to them.
Mr. DAWSON, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the President
of the United States, reported that the committee had performed the
service assigned them, and that the President answered that he would
make a communication to the two Houses of Congress to-morrow at twelve
o'clock.
WEDNESDAY, December 5.
Several other members, to wit: from New Hampshire, DANIEL BLAISDELL and
JOHN C. CHAMBERLAIN; from Massachusetts, J. QUINCY, SAMUEL TAGGART, and
LABAN WHEATON; from Vermont, WILLIAM CHAMBERLIN, MARTIN CHITTENDEN, and
JONATHAN H. HUBBARD; from Connecticut, LEWIS B. STURGES; from New York,
VINCENT MATTHEWS, PETER B. PORTER, and EBENEZER SAGE; and from Rhode
Island, RICHARD JACKSON, jr., appeared, and took their seats in the
House.
A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, which
was read at the Clerk's table.
[For this Message see Senate Proceedings of this date, _ante_ page.]
The documents accompanying the Message having been read, in part, the
House adjourned.
THURSDAY, December 6.
The SPEAKER laid before the House certificates of the election of
EBENEZER HUNTINGTON, of Connecticut; JOHN A. SCUDDER, of New Jersey;
ROBERT WRIGHT, of Maryland; and WILLIAM MCKINLEY, returned to supply
the vacancy occasioned by the resignation of John G. Jackson, of
Virginia; which were referred to the Committee of Elections.
FRIDAY, December 7.
Another member, to wit, from New Jersey, WILLIAM HELMS, appeared, and
took his seat in the House; also, a new member, to wit, from Maryland,
SAMUEL RINGGOLD, returned to serve in the place of Roger Nelson,
resigned, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took
his seat in the House.
MONDAY, December 10.
Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, GIDEON GARDNER;
from New York, GURDON S. MUMFORD; from Pennsylvania, JOHN PORTER; from
Virginia, JOHN LOVE and DANIEL SHEFFEY; and from North Carolina, LEMUEL
SAWYER, appeared, and took their seats.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a certificate of the election of
WILLIAM T. BARRY, elected to supply the vacancy occasioned by the
resignation of Benjamin Howard, of Kentucky; which was referred to the
Committee of Elections.
TUESDAY, December 11.
Several other members, to wit: from New York, HERMAN KNICKERBACKER;
from Virginia, EDWIN GRAY and JACOB SWOOPE; and from South Carolina,
RICHARD WYNN, appeared, and took their seats.
WEDNESDAY, December 12.
Two other members, to wit: from North Carolina, MESHACK FRANKLIN and
WILLIAM KENNEDY, appeared, and took their seats.
THURSDAY, December 13.
Another member, to wit, from Georgia, DENNIS SMELT, appeared, and
took his seat; also two other new members, to wit: JOSEPH ALLEN, from
Massachusetts, in the place of Jabez Upham, resigned, and WILLIAM
T. BARRY, from Kentucky, in the place of Benjamin Howard, resigned,
appeared, were qualified, and took their seats.
_Apportionment Bill._
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill to
apportion the Representatives according to the third enumeration of the
people of the United States.
The question recurring on filling the blank with the number of souls
which should entitle to a Representative--
Mr. MACON said he was decidedly of opinion that the ratio ought to be
fixed, before the result of the census was known. He had no objection
to a moderate increase of the number of members; if they amounted
to so many that one side of the House could not hear the other side
speak, debate was at end, and the purposes of deliberative legislation
defeated. He should have liked the bill better, he said, if it had
declared that the House of Representatives should hereafter consist of
a certain number of members, and had left the apportionment then to be
made according to the population. On the subject of electioneering, he
said it became him at least to say, that that portion of the people
who sent him here, had not been concerned in it. Whatever might have
been the practice elsewhere, so far as concerned his constituents,
there had been no going about or haranguing. And, on the subject of
electioneering, said he, wherever the people are free, there will be
electioneering. It belongs to free government. Possibly different
parts of the country may differ as to the mode. In some, men go
themselves about electioneering; in others, their friends do it for
them. In some, newspaper publications help an election; in others,
they destroy it. In some places, I have heard, the sacred pulpit is
not free from it; in others, a divine would be destroyed that would
attempt it. There was not more electioneering South, Mr. M. believed,
than elsewhere; certain he was that candidates could not there spend
the sums of money which he had heard of being spent elsewhere in an
election. He concluded by saying he was in favor of a moderate increase
of representatives. He was not afraid that, from a multitude of
counsellors, nothing would be done; it was quite as much to be feared
from too few that they would act rashly.
FRIDAY, December 14.
Another member, to wit, from Massachusetts, ABIJAH BIGELOW, elected to
supply the vacancy occasioned by the resignation of William Stedman,
appeared, was qualified, and took his seat.
_Apportionment Bill._
Mr. GOLD considered this bill as a very important one, as fixing the
construction to be put on a provision of the constitution. While, on
the one hand, it might be admitted that business would be in general
better done by a small number of Representatives, yet, on the other
hand, there were important considerations in favor of a large number,
as gentlemen would find by referring to the discussions at the period
of the adoption of the constitution. It was then feared by some
that the representation of so great a people would be too small. If
gentlemen would refer to a number of papers, drawn up by an association
of gentlemen, at that time, and published under the title of "The
Federalist," they would find various arguments used to induce the
Legislature to make the representation full; so that, at that period,
no apprehensions had existed of the Representatives becoming too
numerous. On the contrary, it was supposed that the public confidence
would be impaired by having a small delegation. In adverting to the
relaxed state of the Union, and how much it was exposed to be shook by
attempts to weaken it, it was supposed that public confidence would be
inspired, and general satisfaction given, by the selection of a large
number. It was true, Mr. G. said, that representation might swell so
much as to operate to the exclusion of legislation; but the House of
Representatives would not, even if the present ratio were retained, be
so numerous as many other legislative bodies in the Union. He had no
objection to increasing the numbers of the House of Representatives
to such an amount as would permit public business to be done with
facility. Gentlemen might differ as to the precise ratio; but, while
they argued in favor of a small number, from the inconvenience of
a large delegation, he hoped they would conceive with him that
well-grounded apprehensions might be entertained of the evils which
would result from its being too small.
Mr. MITCHILL said he was in favor of the largest number proposed; and,
not having been able to obtain that, he should vote for the largest
on which a majority could agree. In the district represented by his
colleague (Mr. MUMFORD) and himself, there was probably one hundred and
twenty thousand souls, and yet he had not heard any murmuring that they
were not adequately represented.
Congress, Mr. M. said, did not convene here to legislate on all
the subjects of the rights of citizens. Our Government is, he
contended, a peculiar piece of machinery, an _imperium in imperio_.
The Representatives to Congress left behind them Legislatures, whose
province it was to take care of the personal rights and the rights of
property of our citizens. With these concerns, said Mr. M., we have
nothing to do. We meet here under a constitution expressly framed
and devised for legislating on select subjects, which, on account of
the generality of their nature, could not be confided to the several
States. When, then, we consider the narrow grounds we have to legislate
on, that our great privileges are left at home, we shall be convinced
that there is no occasion that this body should be as numerous as
if we were concerned in the great questions of property and right,
which are secured by the constitution, under the guardianship of the
State Legislatures, and of the courts for the furthering of justice.
If I were to quote a precedent of a Legislature for commanding
influence, and for wisdom and sagacity in carrying us through an
arduous contest whilst struggling for our liberties, I should quote
the Old Congress--limited in number, but remarkable for the honesty
and fidelity with which they performed what a more numerous body
could not have accomplished. And, if I wished to cite an instance of
the evils to be dreaded from a numerous assembly, I should quote the
National Convention of France, where representatives, assembling in
great number, exhibited such a spectacle of disorder as I hope we shall
never, by a multitude of counsellors, run the risk of imitating.
Mr. PITKIN said that he had not expected that a bill of so much
importance would have progressed so far, and gone through the Committee
of the Whole in so rapid a manner as this had. What, he asked of the
House, was settled by the passage of this bill? Nothing was, or could
be settled by the present Congress, unless the returns were made from
the different States of the number of inhabitants in each State, before
the bill became a law; for Congress alone could designate and specify
the number of Representatives which each State should send. The laws
heretofore passed, designating the number of Representatives, had,
at the same time, declared the ratio, and specified the number of
Representatives of each State. Congress alone were competent to decide
on the legality of the returns, and on their act alone could the State
Legislatures proceed. Mr. P. presumed no member would say that it
should be left to the Executive, or any Department of the Government,
to say how many Representatives each State should send to Congress. The
present Congress might fix the ratio as they pleased, but it would
not be obligatory on the next Congress, who could, and undoubtedly
would, modify or reverse it as they should think proper. This bill was,
therefore, premature, and, in fact, would not settle the principle
which it proposed to decide. He was, therefore, on this ground, opposed
to the passage of this bill; and he believed the inconvenience of
deciding it now would be greater than if the business were to rest
until after the returns were made.
Mr. QUINCY said that the agitation of this question at the present
moment had taken him as much by surprise as it had the gentleman from
Connecticut. He had no idea that a question so pregnant with interest
would be hurried through the House in this way. His object in rising
was to obtain a postponement of the question till some time in the
next week, for the consideration of a point, which to his mind was
important. He objected to the bill on the principle that it would be a
violation of the constitution to pass it. It went to establish a ratio
which, in its effect, must be abortive. The constitution says:
"Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned
among the several States which may be included within this
Union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be
determined by adding to the whole number of free persons,
including those bound to service for a term of years, and,
excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons.
The actual enumeration shall be made within three years after
the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and
within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as
they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall
not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each State shall
have at least one Representative."
The constitution then had specifically made it the duty of the House to
apportion the representation of each State according to its respective
numbers. Was it not, he asked, infinitely absurd and a direct violation
of the constitution, to apportion the representation before these
numbers were known? When the constitution had made it a duty to do a
thing according to a standard prescribed, would they do that thing
before that standard could be in possession of the House? Suppose that
in 1791, before the numbers of the States were known, Congress had
undertaken to fix the ratio of representation--would not the Hall have
rung with the exclamations that it was a violation of the constitution?
And how would this bill, Mr. Q. asked, less violate the constitution
than such an act would have done? For, as to the numbers to be
ascertained by the present census, Congress were as little competent to
decide as they were before any census was taken. This was the ground on
which he objected to the bill as unconstitutional, and which he wished
an opportunity thoroughly to examine. He therefore moved that the bill
lie on the table.
Mr. FISK said it had been deemed desirable to fix the ratio before the
numbers of each State were ascertained, so as to avoid the difficulty
which would arise from the fractions, and to afford an accommodation
to the State Legislatures, which would be in session before the next
meeting of Congress. It would indeed be necessary to pass a law
declaring the number of Representatives to be sent by each State; but
that would be a mere matter of form, if the ratio were previously
ascertained by law.
Mr. F. treated the idea of this bill's being unconstitutional, as
altogether unwarranted by fact; for it did not fix the apportionment,
but merely the ratio, according to which the Representatives should be
apportioned among the States when their respective numbers were known.
Mr. WRIGHT was in favor of postponing, and decidedly opposed to
the bill. He was against it, because it proposed to bestow on
others a power residing in Congress. If this law were to pass,
could the Secretary of State be authorized to declare the number of
Representatives to which each State was entitled? Could Congress
transfer to him legislative power, and authorize him to declare of how
many members this body should consist? He presumed not. The power was
vested in Congress, and not in the Secretary of State. But gentlemen
were desirous now to fix the number of souls which should entitle to
a Representative--and why? That the State Legislatures, understanding
the number of Representatives to which they are entitled from knowing
the census, may proceed to district their States, in anticipation
of the law to be passed by Congress. But their acts would not be
conclusive, because Congress might change the ratio, and they would
have to undo all they had done. Mr. W. hoped that this business would
be postponed, until, as heretofore, Congress would be possessed of all
the information of which the nature of the case would admit. When the
census was received from the President of the United States they would
be much better able to act than now. In this case, Mr. W. said he held
himself imperiously bound to follow the steps of his predecessors. He
held it a correct maxim in general, that the practice of to-day should
be the precedent for to-morrow. Why need they decide this business
immediately? There was yet some months in the session, and time enough
to reflect on the subject. Why legislate by halves? If this law were
passed, Mr. W. asked, was it perfect? Did it declare to how many
Representatives each State should be entitled? He said he could refer
to cases in which errors had occurred in the census; and it was in the
power of the House alone to correct any errors which might have escaped
the Secretary of State. In Maryland a mistake had occurred in the last
enumeration, of thirty or forty thousand souls. He believed that a
great portion of the district comprising Cecil and Hartford counties
had been omitted; and he recollected perfectly well that the error was
corrected; and, by turning his eye to the proceedings of that day, he
could see other errors. He wished, when the House acted, that they
should do it understandingly, and with all the evidence before them of
which the case was susceptible. He hoped the bill would be postponed
until the returns of the census were received in the usual mode.
Mr. W. ALSTON opposed the postponement. He was as loth to depart from
old practices as the gentleman from Maryland, if those practices were
found to be good. But when they proved inconvenient or useless, it was
certainly right to depart from them. What, then, had experience taught
them on this subject? Why, that if the ratio was not fixed before the
census was known, great inconvenience would result to many States.
Congress, at their last session, being apprised of the circumstance,
had in their law directed that complete returns should be made to the
Secretary of State by the first of March next. It was well known that,
if they did not fix the ratio before the first of March, they would
not be able to fix it after; when the ratio was fixed, however, the
apportionment would not be the work of an hour. If it became necessary
to deprive a State of a Representative, he asked whether it would not
be more palatable that it should be done now than after the census was
known? The State deprived of a Representative could not complain; the
ratio would affect it in the same proportion, whether it gave or took
a member. That argument, therefore, was entitled to no consideration.
Mr. A. expressed his surprise that the small States appeared to be
opposed to a large ratio; for, if it would be an advantage on any side,
it would be decidedly in favor of the small States. He thought, indeed,
that the Representatives of the large States, in voting for a large
ratio, had shown great magnanimity and liberality.
Mr. GOLDSBOROUGH was in favor of postponement, and was sorry to see
the bill attempted to be hurried through. Gentlemen had not maturely
considered the subject, and, on reflection, would be convinced that
their votes were, if not a direct, at least an indirect, violation
of the constitution. This was premature legislation on what properly
belonged to the next Congress, and which, act on it as they might,
would unquestionably come before Congress at their next session. If
it should be found that the ratio agreed on operated unfavorably
on the numbers of any State or States, they would be anxious for a
reconsideration of the subject. It would be immaterial whether the
subject should be brought up by a bill _de novo_, or by a bill to
repeal this, if it should indeed become a law; the ardor of discussion
would be the same in either case. If this be admitted, the only
argument in favor of the bill is done away. The constitution having
directed that apportionment should be made accordingly to the whole
census, Mr. G. said that he could not see how Congress could fix it
before they knew what that census was. He did not know that every
gentleman on the floor was ignorant of any of the returns; some might
be already apprised of the returns of their own State. Each one made
estimates no doubt, in his own mind, as to the probable result; and,
for himself, Mr. G. said he had been endeavoring to make some sort
of a calculation; and if the bill passed, and the ratio should prove
unfavorable to the numbers of the State which he had the honor to
represent, he should feel himself bound to move a repeal of the law;
and they would have the whole discussion over again.
The question on the bill's laying on the table was carried--65 to 43.
And on motion, the House adjourned until Monday.
MONDAY, December 17.
Another member, to wit, from New York, JOHN NICHOLSON, appeared, and
took his seat in the House.
TUESDAY, December 18.
Another member, to wit, from Massachusetts, BARZILLAI GANNETT,
appeared, and took his seat.
GEORGE POINDEXTER, the delegate from the Mississippi Territory, also
appeared, and took his seat.
FRIDAY, December 21.
Two other members, to wit: from Virginia, JOHN CLOPTON, and WALTER
JONES, appeared and took their seats; a new member, to wit, WILLIAM
MCKINLEY, also from Virginia, appeared, was qualified, and took his
seat.
MONDAY, December 24.
Three other members, to wit: WILLIAM HALE, from New Hampshire; BENJAMIN
PICKMAN, jr., from Massachusetts; and THOMAS NEWBOLD, from New Jersey,
appeared, and took their seats.
_Claims for Military Services in the Old French War._
Mr. MORROW, from the Committee on the Public Lands, made a report on
the several petitions of the officers and soldiers, and the heirs of
officers and soldiers who served in the British army in America, in
the war between Great Britain and France; which was read, and the
resolution therein contained concurred in by the House.
The report is as follows:
The Committee on Public Lands, to whom was referred several
petitions, claiming lands for military services, performed in
the war of 1755, between Great Britain and France, report:
That, considering the subject-matter of the said petitions
highly important, on account of the interest it has recently
excited, and the speculation it has given rise to in various
parts of the United States, the committee have carefully
examined the State papers and public documents, of the period
of the above war, to ascertain the original foundation of the
supposed claim. In pursuing this investigation, the committee
have not been able to discover that any engagement or contract
whatever was made or entered into by the Government, or under
the authority of Great Britain, with the officers and soldiers
of the provincial troops, serving in the war aforesaid, for a
grant of lands, either as an encouragement to their entering
into the service, or as a compensation for services. All that
the committee have been able to find on the subject is in
a proclamation of the King of Great Britain, of the 7th of
October, 1763, (after the closing of the war and disbanding of
the troops,) and in the following words:
"_And whereas_ we are desirous, upon all occasions, to testify
our royal sense and approbation of the conduct and bravery of
the officers and soldiers of our army, and to reward the same,
we do hereby command and empower our Governors of the several
provinces on the Continent of North America to grant, without
fee or reward, to such reduced officers as have served in
North America during the late war, and are actually residing
there, and shall personally apply for the same, the following
quantities of land, subject, at the expiration of ten years,
to the same quit-rents as other lands are subject to, in the
province within which they are granted, as also subject to the
same conditions of cultivation and improvement, viz:
"To every person having the rank of a field officer, 5,000
acres.
"To every captain, 3,000 acres.
"To every subaltern or staff officer, 2,600 acres.
"To every non-commissioned officer, 200 acres.
"To every private man, 50 acres.
"We do likewise authorize and require the Governors and
commanders-in-chief of all our said colonies, upon the
Continent of North America, to grant the like quantities of
land, and upon the same conditions, to such reduced officers of
our navy of like rank, as served on board of our ships of war
in North America, at the times of the reduction of Louisburg
and Quebec, in the late war, and who shall personally apply to
our respective Governors for such grants."
In this State paper, the committee can perceive no foundation
whatever for the present claim upon the United States. Instead
of a contract with the officers and soldiers for land, the
proclamation contains a mere instruction to the provincial
Governors--an instruction emanating from the munificence of the
Sovereign, and for conferring a gratuity, not issued for the
satisfaction of any previous claim or demand upon Government.
That the grant intended by the above proclamation was rather a
testimony of respect and approbation, than a donation of value,
appears from the prescribed terms on which it was to be made,
they being the same on which lands were granted to others in
the provinces, with the exception, that the military grants
were to be made free of office fees, and exempt from payment
of quit-rents for ten years. Had application been made to the
land offices of the provincial governments, as was the duty
of all the claimants, there can be no doubt but that grants
would have been readily made to the full extent of the bounty
intended by the proclamation, subject, however, to the usual
condition for settlement and improvement. Forty-seven years
have now elapsed since the foregoing proclamation, during which
period the above claims have laid dormant, and the committee
do conceive, that, upon fair and just principles, those claims
would have been considered derelict and abandoned had the
Government, under which they arose, continued; but to admit
them against the United States, placed as they now are, under
a government founded on a revolution, which has intervened, is
required by no principle of justice, and would, in the opinion
of the committee, be an unauthorized disposition and sacrifice
of the public property of the United States. On no principle
of national law, or by any treaty or convention between the
United States and Great Britain, are the United States bound
to perform the engagements of the former government of Great
Britain, especially for mere bounties; nor would the purposes
for which the several States have ceded land, within their
respective jurisdictions, to the United States, warrant the
appropriation of those lands for the satisfaction of the claims
in question, were the same better founded than by the committee
they are conceived to be. The committee, therefore, beg leave
to submit the following resolution:
_Resolved_, That the prayer of the petitioners ought not to be
granted.
MONDAY, December 31.
Another member, to wit, from Delaware, NICHOLAS VAN DYKE, appeared, and
took his seat.
WEDNESDAY, January 2, 1811.
Two other new members, to wit: from New Hampshire, NATHANIEL A. HAVEN;
and from Maryland, JOHN CAMPBELL, appeared, and took their seats.
_Orleans Territory._
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill
for admitting the Territory of Orleans as a State into the Union.
Mr. BIBB said it was very far from his intention to oppose the passage
of the bill. On the contrary, he was favorably disposed to it; but a
difficulty had occurred to him which he would state as a reason for
delaying a decision on the bill for the present. The bill proposed
including in the State all that part of the Territory which lay west of
the Perdido, &c. The President, by his Proclamation, although he had
required its occupation, he declared that the right should be subject
to negotiation. Now, if it became a State, would not all right of
negotiation on the subject be taken from the President?
Mr. BARRY said that the necessity of State government, the want of
proper control by the General Government, and its inability to attend
to the municipal concerns of the Territory, imperiously called upon
Congress to erect it into a State. It was unimportant, as respected
the ratio, that the bill should be delayed till that was ascertained.
Although the precise population could not be ascertained, yet, from
what had fallen from the gentlemen from Orleans and Mississippi
Territories, it was probable that the Territory had already a right
to become a State. Mr. B. said it was important that Congress should
act on this subject, for a variety of reasons. It was a point of the
Union particularly important to the country which he represented. New
Orleans commanded the river through which the whole productions of
the Western and of some part of the Southern country were carried to
market. It became important in another respect, that the people in that
country should have the power of self-government. He alluded to the
necessity, in the present posture of affairs, that they should have the
power of self-preservation to protect themselves in the enjoyment of
their rights, and that the power resulting from State sovereignty ought
therefore to be extended to them at this time. The objection which has
been urged, respecting the question of title, was equally unimportant.
Admitted in its full force, it would only require a modification of
the bill, reserving to Congress the power of changing the boundary of
the Territory; and this would be a desirable modification because of
the undefined limits of the Territory. This objection did not meet
the merits of the bill, but merely suggested a modification. It was
important now to act on the subject, because Congress had the power
to impose conditions on the Territory. If they waited until it had
attained a population of 60,000, they could not say no to the demands
of these people.
Mr. SHEFFEY said he was not prepared to act on the subject, because
the materials on which to decide were not before the House. Whilst
he was disposed to treat the inhabitants of the Orleans Territory
as brothers, and not as vassals, he was not ready to transfer the
inheritance purchased by the blood of our fathers to foreigners. While
he looked upon these people as equals, and was disposed to do them
justice, he thought all they could demand at his hands was to be placed
on that equality to which they were entitled. It had been said that the
population was this much or that much. How much?--Mr. S. asked. Sixty
thousand? Forty thousand? Thirty thousand? Would any gentleman who
regarded his honor tell the House that there were 30,000 inhabitants
in the undisputed Territory? He believed not. And would gentlemen
favor this French population at the expense of their own interests and
rights? It was true indeed that Ohio became a State before she had
60,000; but the ratio of representation was then but 30,000. If he
were to reason on this subject, Mr. S. said he would say, under the
fostering hand of the General Government, let them become accustomed to
our Government, before those were permitted to govern themselves who
had so lately emerged from despotism. He was not, he said, directly
hostile to the admission of this Territory into the Union; but he made
these observations in answer to speculations ushered in to lead the
House from its duty. They ought to have the necessary information.
Mr. MACON said he would treat these people as he would the people of
every other Territory. They were a part of the nation, and so ought
to be considered. There ought to be no question as to what stock
they sprung from; the true question was, ought they to be a State?
The true policy, Mr. M. thought, was, as they were to become a part
of the United States, to make them one and indivisible as soon as
possible. They had already served a sufficient apprenticeship to the
United States, but not under a free Government, for the Territorial
governments were not free. The advantage of exacting of them the
condition of using the same language, was a great one. How could they
be made one with the United States unless by the use of the same
language? Mr. M. wished to treat this Territory as well as the others,
and no better; he would not treat one as a daughter and the other as
a step-daughter. He was as willing now to make Orleans a State as he
had been to make Ohio a State. The great object is to make us one
people; to make this nation one. As to the Mississippi Territory, it
had not served a much longer apprenticeship than Orleans, having only
been acquired by the treaty with Spain in 1795. The people of Orleans
possessed certainly as strong an attachment to the nation as could be
expected from the time they had belonged to it. When the Spaniards
invaded the Territory, they stepped forward promptly to repel them; and
when some citizens of the old States forgot the love every honest heart
owes to his country, they showed their attachment to the Union by the
readiness with which they lent their aid to repel them. To make them a
State would make that attachment still greater, and it was therefore
advisable to act on the subject.
The committee now rose, reported progress, and asked leave to sit
again; but before leave was granted, the House adjourned.
FRIDAY, January 4.
_Territory of Orleans._
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for
admitting the Territory of Orleans into the Union as an independent
State, &c.
Mr. WHEATON.--Whenever a bill is offered for our sanction, in order
that it may become a law, it is proper, before we give it such
sanction, that we should inquire whether the subject of it is such as
we have constitutional authority to legislate upon; and if so, whether,
from a consideration of time and circumstances, it be expedient so to
do.
It appears to me that the bill now before us is objectionable on both
these grounds, and, if so, there is a double reason why it should not
pass. A few moments will be sufficient for the remarks I have to make
upon either; and, if they shall be deemed of no consequence, there will
be this consolation, that they will have occupied but very little time.
The subject of this bill is the Orleans Territory, and the object of
it, to form that Territory into a State, the people of which are to
be subject to the same duties, and entitled to the same privileges,
as the people of the United States in their federative capacity. It
will be observed that our constitution, by its enacting clause, was
ordained and established for the _then_ United States of America.
The United States being thus included, implies an exclusion of all
others. It may, therefore, be fairly concluded that those that framed
this constitution, and those that adopted it, never intended that its
immediate operation should extend to any people that did not then, or
that should not thereafter be included within the limits of the United
States; that they did not intend to enter into a partnership of this
sort without some knowledge of those that should compose it, lest the
improper conduct of some might end in the ruin of all. The Territory
of Orleans certainly was not within the limits of the United States
when the constitution was established. It was known to be otherwise.
The people there were foreigners to us, and subjects of another
Government. That it could not have been intended that the constitution
should embrace these people and this Territory, may be argued from the
extreme danger of carrying the principle into operation. If we may
extend our limits at all, without the consent of the people, further
than what is expressed in the constitution, who can tell where will be
our ultimate bounds, or what number of States we may have in the Union?
Purchase and conquest are objects of ambition. The great Napoleon may
have more land to sell, and Spain now possess what she cannot retain.
May we not, in time, have the whole of South America, some of the West
India islands, and, possibly, Great Britain? And if so, upon the same
principle that we form the Territory of Orleans into a State, we may
form these Territories into as many separate States as we please, and
admit them into the Union with all the powers and privileges that any
of our States now possess and enjoy. Then what will become of the Old
United States, who first entered into the compact contained in the
constitution, and for whose benefit alone that instrument was made
and executed. Instead of these new States being annexed to us, we
shall be annexed to them, lose our independence, and become altogether
subject to their control. Besides, it may be recollected, that, when
our independence and national existence was acknowledged by the other
nations of the world, the Territory now proposed to be received into
the Union made no part of the United States so acknowledged; if,
therefore, this be done, a jealousy may be created in those other
nations, and, possibly, they may have some reason to complain that,
in addition to the immense increase of population within our ancient
limits, we should extend our boundaries so far as to include other
countries. This, however, by those who justify the Governments of other
nations in the pursuit of their projects for universal domination, will
be thought deserving of very little consideration. But, it may be
well questioned how far the taking of positions that may lead to war
comports with that pacific disposition which the people of the United
States have been so anxious to maintain; and, whether the obligation
they have placed themselves under, by adopting the constitution, to
guaranty to every State in the Union a republican form of government,
and to protect each of them against invasion, can be made to extend to
the Orleans Territory; or, whether the President can have any authority
to send our militia there to repel any invasion or suppress any
insurrection that may happen there, are inquiries worth some attention
before we pass this act. And there will be found another difficulty in
the way of carrying the object of it into full effect. If the people
of that Territory are admitted into the Union as a State, on an equal
footing with any of the _now_ United States, they will have a right
to send to our Legislature not only Representatives in proportion to
their numbers, but, also, two Senators, and the constitution makes it
a necessary qualification for a Senator that he should have been a
citizen of the United States at least nine years, a period further back
than it can be pretended that any of the people of that Territory ever
belonged to the United States, unless they be emigrants, and have not,
thereby, lost their citizenship. And a President of the United States
they never can have from among their own people, unless he be yet to
be born, for no person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of
the United States at the time of the adoption of the constitution,
can be eligible to the office of President. But, it has been said
that Congress have already passed a law, wherein they have stipulated
with those people, that they shall be formed into a State when they
shall have gained a certain number of inhabitants. In answer to this,
it is sufficient to say that, if it be incorrect to promise to do a
wrong thing, it is more incorrect still to do it. If this bill be
unconstitutional, so was that law.
But, in opposition to all this, it will, undoubtedly, be said that
several new States have been formed by Congress since the adoption of
the constitution, and that they are well authorized by that instrument.
This is admitted. "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this
Union." But, if we look into the article where this authority is to be
found, we shall find it applicable to the territories then included
within the limits of the United States, or to a division of some of
the States then already formed; beyond which, it is believed, this
authority has never been exercised. The Old Confederation did expressly
authorize the admission of Canada into the Union, but the present
constitution does not. If such an authority had been proposed to have
been given to Congress by it, perhaps it had never been adopted.
If, however, it should be believed that this bill might pass into
a law, in strict conformity with the spirit and letter of the
constitution, it is apprehended that the measure would be extremely
impolitic and inexpedient at the present moment. We have not even the
possession of a part of the country proposed to be embraced by this
bill, and both title and possession have been disputed. It is true we
have bought the whole country, and dearly paid for it, but still, if we
have not a just title, we ought not to expect to hold it; and it is now
admitted to be a subject of negotiation; and, even if our titles shall
be found to be good, and we gain a peaceable possession, still, if we
have a right to buy a thing, I know not why we may not sell it. But, as
the expediency of this measure has been considered by other gentlemen,
I forbear to add to the remarks I have already made.
Mr. MILLER said it would be observed that there were two applications
to this House for admission into the Union as States; one from the
Mississippi Territory, and the other from the Orleans Territory. The
latter only, said he, is contemplated by the bill before you. Neither
of these Territories have the number of inhabitants required by law to
enable them to demand their admission into the Union as a matter of
right. It may, therefore, be said with propriety to be an application
for a favor, going directly to an amicable discussion, and which we may
grant or refuse without running the risk of breaking any legal or moral
obligation.
It has been objected against this bill that the population of the
State proposed will not be American. Without intimating how far this
consideration may have influence on my mind, under the circumstances
in which that country has been lately placed, I cannot, however, but
remark that it is natural for man to carry his feelings and prejudices
about him. I was born in Virginia, sir, and I have not yet lost some
of my Virginia feelings, notwithstanding an absence of fifteen years,
and I cannot see why we should expect the people of Orleans to act
and feel differently from other people, more particularly, when the
French nation is towering so far above the other nations of the earth;
they will have a secret pride in their glory, they will have some
attachments, to what extent I cannot say; but, inasmuch as we know that
if we send Paddy to Paris, that Paddy he will come back, the idea is
certainly not unworthy of our consideration.
The bill on your table has another objection, of some weight with me,
in relation to its policy. You propose to do them a favor by granting
them an admission to the rank of other States before they can legally
demand it, and, at the same time, you propose terms beyond which they
cannot go. This, sir, resembles very much a polite invitation to walk
in, but under an injunction to see that your feet are well cleaned, and
your toes turned out. It is a niggardly sort of policy that I am sorry
to see engrafted in the bill. If you design to be liberal, be so; do
not destroy your liberality by an ungenerous sentiment.
Again, sir, there are objections to the bill, as presented, that
renders it impossible for me to give it my sanction. It will be seen,
sir, that the bill proposes to annex that portion of West Florida in
dispute between this and the Spanish Government to the State to be
formed out of the Territory of Orleans. The President has declared to
the world that this portion of the country, in our hands, shall be
subject to mutual arrangements, hereafter to be entered into between
the two Governments. But, once annex it to a State and the power to
negotiate ceases. What power have we to negotiate about the territory
of any of the States? We have none.
Again, sir, I never will consent that the bay of Mobile shall be
annexed to any State which includes New Orleans and the mouth of the
Mississippi, unless, indeed, they are both included in the same State
with the whole country north, up to the Tennessee line.
If you annex West Florida to the State to be composed of the Orleans
Territory, they will then possess a narrow slip of the country,
including nearly the whole of the seacoast of Orleans, (including
the bay of Mobile,) with a most extensive up-country, composed of a
great part of the Mississippi Territory, and, I may say, Tennessee,
wholly dependent on them, perhaps, for leave to go out into the bay,
and, certainly, for the improvement of its navigation. And this, sir,
is rendered more probable, as we know men act mostly for their own
interest. And, as New Orleans, from its present population, will govern
the councils of that State, let me ask, sir, if it will not be their
interest, as much as possible, to divert the 'trade and capital from
the Mobile to the Mississippi? And what security have we that she will
not do so? None; and from the nature of our Government can have none.
Upon the plan I propose, from the extent of the country proposed
to be annexed, the people who inhabit it, in time, will have the
preponderance, and their interest will dictate the proper course to be
pursued in relation to the free passage of the Mobile.
We may, also, with some certainty, pronounce that the population of the
Mississippi, if it is not now, will, in a few years, be the greatest
slave population, in proportion to the whites, of any country in the
United States. Is it, then, of no consequence to have those settlements
so connected with others, composed of whites, as that they may, at all
times, be able, within the limits of their jurisdiction, to suppress
insurrections of that sort? Is not this a consideration that ought
to be taken into account? I, therefore, move you, sir, to strike out
the whole of the bill, from the words "a bill," for the purpose of
inserting a section by way of amendment, the effect of which will be
to consolidate both the Territories into a single State, which will
include the whole of the country belonging to the United States, east
of the Mississippi, and south of the State of Tennessee. This plan
will avoid the objections made to the want of numbers, and will give,
also, an American population to the State, if that should be desirable;
and will, also, avoid the difficulty occasioned from the situation in
which West Florida is at this time placed. To this plan I can see but
one objection that ought to have any sort of influence, and that, sir,
exists more in idea than reality. It is to the size of the proposed
State. Divide and subdivide this country as you will, their interests,
in a political point of view, will be the same. Their representation in
this House will neither be increased nor diminished by a consolidation.
In the Senate, the plan proposed is greatly to the advantage of the old
States. In that House, they will have but two Senators instead of four
or six, according to the number of States that may be made.
There is, also, no legal objection to this plan. The Treaty of 1803
with the French Republic, only provides for their admission into the
Union, without regard to their territorial limits, and there is no law
repugnant to the plan.
Mr. GHOLSON said that the observations of the gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. MACON) had rendered it unnecessary for him to make many
of the remarks to the committee which he had intended. In no point of
view, said Mr. G., in which this subject has been considered, can I
perceive any reason for adopting the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Tennessee, (Mr. MILLER.) If that gentleman will only advert to
the treaty of cession between France and the United States, and to
the act of Congress passed pursuant to that treaty, he will readily
discover that the amendment he proposes cannot be sanctioned without a
manifest violation of public faith. By the third article of the treaty,
it is stipulated that "the inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be
incorporated in the union of the United States, and admitted as soon as
possible, according to the principles of the Federal Constitution, to
the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens
of the United States." On the second of March, 1805, Congress proceeded
by an act of legislation to fulfil this engagement with France; and
accordingly, by the 7th section of that act, provided "that whenever
it shall be ascertained by an actual census or enumeration of the
inhabitants of the Territory of Orleans, taken by proper authority,
that the number of free inhabitants included therein shall amount
to sixty thousand, they shall thereupon be authorized to form for
themselves a constitution and State government, and be admitted into
the Union upon the footing of the original States, in all respects
whatever, conformably to the provisions of the 3d article of the
treaty concluded at Paris on the thirtieth of April, one thousand
eight hundred and three, between the United States and the French
Republic." Now, if to the Orleans Territory you add the Mississippi
Territory, and of the _two_ erect _one_ State, you evidently will not
comply either with your stipulations with the French Republic, or
with your covenant to the Orleans Territory. For, by these you have
agreed that Orleans shall become a State and not part of a State only;
and there is a wide and substantial distinction between incorporating
that Territory, together with other Territories into a single State,
as but a fractional part thereof, and authorizing the people of that
Territory "to form for themselves a constitution and State government,
and to be admitted into the Union upon the footing of the original
States." In the former case they may possibly have no influence
whatever in appointments to the other branch of the Legislature, and
all their interior regulations may also, by possibility, be dictated
to them by an ascendant population in the remainder of the State. In
the latter case they will, of course, have the entire direction in
regard to their system of police and their State institutions, and will
moreover have a right, not participated in by any other persons, of
sending two Senators to Congress. In fact they will be a distinct State
sovereignty. Surely, then, there is a great and obvious difference
between what we have so often promised these people, and what is now
proposed for them.
Mr. BIBB conceived that the House could not adopt such an amendment as
that proposed, without the consent of Georgia; for without her consent
they could not make an addition to or division of the Mississippi
Territory. It was true, he said, that he had on a former day proposed
to make an addition of territory to the Mississippi Territory, but it
was only during such time as it should remain a Territory. To this
there could be no objection, as there was no prohibition to it in the
compact. It had been his intention, if the House had thought proper to
sanction his motion, to have made a proposition to the State of Georgia
to admit that territory to be incorporated with the Mississippi. The
amendment now offered evidently proposed a violation of the compact
with Georgia.
Mr. MACON said this bill had taken rather a curious course. The
principle and detail had both been attacked; and yet no proposal had
been made to try whether the House would legislate on the subject. He
had proposed an amendment to do away some of the objections to the
detail; but instead of being allowed to amend the bill, the House
were met by a constitutional objection, from the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. WHEATON) to the power of Congress to make a State.
If this objection was good, Mr. M. said, he admitted the bill ought
not to pass; for, Mr. M. said, on this point he could not agree with
the gentleman from Tennessee, that because a treaty had been made in
relation to it, it was too late to object to the constitutionality. Mr.
M. said no; it was never too late to return to the constitution. If the
article of the constitution, however, did not mean that Congress might
take States out of new Territories, what did it mean? There was no
occasion for it in relation to the old Territories; for the ordinance
of the Old Congress had secured to them the right; and these ordinances
were as binding as the treaties which Congress had entered into. The
change of the form of Government did not affect national obligations.
The right to become States was one which Congress could not take from
the old Territories. The right of creating States out of acquired
Territories, was one which he had always contended for; and it had been
stated by at least one of those who formed the constitution, that this
article had reference to Canada. "New States may be admitted by the
Congress into the Union." At the time this provision was made, Florida
and Louisiana were not thought of. Canada was the Territory kept in
view. Much, sir, said Mr. M., as the United States wanted the southern
country, and great as is the convenience of possessing it, I never
would have consented to have taken it to have kept them in Territorial
government forever. I do not want provinces. I am extremely sorry, sir,
that whenever this subject is agitated, we are met by the objection
that these people are of French descent. I have before expressed my
opinion on this subject, and it is needless to repeat it; but if
gentlemen wish them to become our brethren in reality, make them our
equals; act just towards them. Do unto them as you would they should do
unto you, and make them your friends. I know an opinion is entertained
that only those who are of the favored race can be free. I know, sir,
that the English nation has been freer than any other; but the time has
been that Holland, Sweden, and others, have been free--power, however,
overcame right, and the people lost their liberties.
I cannot consider it any question for our consideration, who shall be
their Senators and who their Representatives. They have had some time a
delegate, and will find delegates in the Senate as well as the House of
Representatives. It seems to me, sir, that the gentleman from Tennessee
need not to have referred to the dispute between the Potomac and the
Delaware, because the constitution has put an end to these sources of
strife. It is true, sir, that the Orleans Territory is a slave country,
and I would be glad if they could get clear of them; but that does not
at all affect this question.
The present situation of Mobile and Orleans is the reason why I want
some alteration in the bill. I would rather not have them under the
same Government. I have endeavored to ascertain the present population
of the Orleans Territory, so called. There is a difference of opinion
among those well informed on the subject, from 45,000 to 55,000. He
wished gentlemen would permit them to try the question on the principle
of the bill, and ascertain whether the House would do any thing with it
or not.
Mr. POINDEXTER observed that the proposition of the gentleman from
Tennessee for incorporating the present Mississippi Territory with West
Florida and the Island of Orleans, to the sea, with a view to form of
the whole one State, did not meet his approbation. From the Tennessee
line, which would be the northern boundary of the State, to the
confluence of the Mississippi with the bay of Mexico, is a distance of
from eight hundred to a thousand miles, in the nearest direction, and
following the meanders of the river, not less in my opinion than twelve
hundred miles. Taking the distance generally from the Mississippi to
the Georgia line, I should judge it to be about five hundred miles, and
from the northernmost point of the State of Georgia to the junction of
the Chatahoochee with the sea, cannot be far short of a thousand miles.
This vast tract of country, in my humble conception, is too extensive
for the purpose of local State government. Indeed, sir, it could hardly
be expected, over such an immense territory, interspersed with numerous
tribes of Indians, that even the Executive functionaries of Government
could be able to perform their duty in the execution of their laws.
That geographical limits, other than those which now divide the Orleans
and Mississippi Territories, might be designated, to comport more
with the future convenience and prosperity of the country, cannot be
denied. I would suggest for the reflection of gentlemen who have to act
on this subject, the expediency of making the great river Mississippi
the high road between the Eastern and Western States, to be formed on
its waters; that no one State should possess both banks of that river.
In that event, to commence on the eastern shore at the mouth of the
Yazoo, in latitude 32 30; thence in a direct line to the head-waters
of the Chatahoochee, thence to the sea, and along the coast, in a
southwestern direction, to Lake Barrataria, thence up the Chafalaga
to its junction with the Mississippi, and thence up that river to the
mouth of the Yazoo. This tract of country would include about three
degrees of latitude; it would combine all the settlements on the
Eastern side of the Mississippi, except the county of Madison, which
could be disposed of as the wisdom of Congress might hereafter direct.
There are various political considerations which operate in favor of
the formation of such a State. The people of the Territory of Orleans
are petitioning to become an independent State, and I for one hope
the prayer of their petition will in substance be granted. It is said
that the French population of the city of New Orleans are unfriendly
to the American Government. That they have strong prejudices in favor
of France. Although, sir, I do not attach so much importance to that
circumstance as some gentlemen do, I am willing to admit that French
emigrants in Louisiana feel an attachment to their native country. I do
not blush to say that were I in France, or any other foreign country, I
could never forget that I was born an American citizen. I could never
relinquish my attachments to the land of freedom, in which I inhaled
my first breath. Judging therefore, of the feelings of others, by my
own, I cannot doubt that many influential French inhabitants of New
Orleans entertain a predilection for the country which gave them birth.
But, sir, within the limits which I have submitted to the consideration
of the committee, there is an American population at least sufficient
to neutralize every exotic prejudice which may exist in New Orleans. A
people whose origin, whose feelings and principles are American, and
who are prepared to rally around the standard of the constitution, in
every scene of difficulty and of danger.
Mr. MILLER'S amendment was not agreed to.
MONDAY, January 14.
_Orleans Territory._
The House resumed the consideration of the engrossed bill to enable the
people of the Territory of Orleans to form a constitution and State
government, and for the admission of such State into the Union on an
equal footing with the original States, and for other purposes.