Mr. NICHOLAS said, as a majority of the House was against striking out
this sum, he wished to have some information why this sum was fixed
upon, and for what purpose it was to be applied. No one wished more than
he did to place the PRESIDENT in a situation conformable to his station;
but according to his information, this sum was more than was given to
the present PRESIDENT on his entering upon the office, though there
remained the whole of the furniture, most of which was worth as much at
this time as it was when first purchased.
Mr. SITGREAVES said, he would give to the gentleman all the information
which he had on the subject. In the year 1778 or 1779, by a resolution,
of the old Congress, an household was established for the PRESIDENT of
Congress. This remained until the present Government went into operation
in the year 1789. It was then resolved, that Mr. OSGOOD should be
requested to fit up the House in a proper manner for the reception of
the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. In that year the law passed for
compensating the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, which enacted that a
salary of 25,000 dollars should be allowed him, together with the use of
the furniture then in his possession belonging to the United States.
This furniture cost the United States 13,657 dollars, 83 cents. During
the period from 1779, when the household was first established until
1789, when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES entered upon his office,
the furniture which had been purchased for the PRESIDENT by Congress,
was so much decayed, that it required nearly 14,000 dollars to replenish
it. It was the opinion of the joint committee, therefore, that in a
lapse of eight years, viz: from 1789 to the present time, the furniture
then purchased must have experienced equal dilapidation and decay, and
that a sum at least as large as was then allowed (particularly when it
was considered that the price of goods was very much advanced since that
time) should now be allowed for putting the present household upon the
same footing of respectability and convenience with that at New York in
1789. Mr. S. did not know that he could give any further information on
the subject. It was a matter of notoriety that a great part of the goods
then purchased were worn out and destroyed; such as the household linen,
crockery ware, &c., and that the PRESIDENT had renewed them at his own
expense; insomuch that if he were to take out of the House the furniture
which he had supplied, there would little remain in it besides tables,
chairs, bedsteads, and a few such articles; since all the carpets and
ornamental furniture of the House had been purchased by himself.
Whilst he was up, he would wish to obviate the only objection which had
been adduced to this bill. The gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. HENDERSON)
had supposed that this allowance was meant to carry into effect what had
been rejected in another way, alluding to the proposed advance of
salary. That gentleman might see a very obvious distinction between the
two things. If $5,000 had been added to the salary of the PRESIDENT, he
could have disposed of it as he pleased; but the money now proposed to
be granted, was to be employed in the purchase of furniture, &c., which
would remain the property of the United States, and would devolve upon
the next PRESIDENT. Mr. S. said, he would add, that in the joint
committee there was not a dissenting voice to the proposition, and he
hoped there would not be one in the House.
The question was put for engrossing the bill for a third reading, and
carried, there being fifty votes in favor of it. This day and Monday
were mentioned for the third reading; the question was carried for the
most distant day, 40 to 35.
MONDAY, February 27.
_Accommodation of the President._
The bill to accommodate the PRESIDENT was read the third time; when Mr.
HEATH moved to have the bill recommitted, for the purpose of striking
out $14,000 to insert $8,000. He thought $14,000 too large a sum to be
given to purchase new furniture; $8,000 he thought would be a
sufficiently handsome sum for the purpose. They were apt to be too
lavish with the public money on some occasions, and too sparing on
others. He had not been satisfied with the reasons which had been given
by the Chairman of the committee for giving the sum now in the bill. At
a time when our Treasury was so much in want of money, he did not wish
so large a sum to be given for this purpose; nor did he think it
necessary, except it were to put our PRESIDENT in the style of a
potentate or prince. And this he was sure the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES would not wish, as he believed he was a gentleman of great
economy, and would spurn at any thing like tinsel or expense. Five
thousand dollars had been thought a sufficient sum for this purpose, but
he was willing to give $8,000. He hoped the bill would therefore be
recommitted, and this sum be inserted.
Mr. MACON seconded the motion for recommitting the bill. He was against
it altogether. He did not see why they should furnish the house of the
PRESIDENT any more than that of any other of their officers. He thought
the thing improper at first, and that it was wrong to continue the
practice. If the salary was not large enough, it should be made larger,
though he thought it sufficiently large.
Mr. RUTHERFORD concurred with his colleague, Mr. HEATH. It was
necessary, he said, that Republicans should be consistent. If we thus
give away the people's money, said he, shall we not be charged with
rapaciously putting our hands into their pockets? Have we not, he added,
refused to redress grievances and injuries, and to do justice to many
deserving and distressed citizens, because our Treasury is low? And
shall we now, when there is no right reason for it, lay hold of the
public Treasury, and lavish away $14,000? For what? For adding new
furniture to the house of the PRESIDENT. No; he was willing to render
him all possible respect; he remembered well his letter to our sister
Republic of Holland. He had a pretty good memory. He remembered well his
patriotism; but he saw no reason to give him $14,000. He would give him
$8,000, which he thought would be a very pretty compliment; but to give
$14,000 would outrage every idea of that economy and Republican
simplicity which ought to characterize the American nation. Why, said
he, shall we, who are a Confederacy of the Democratic Republicans,
everlastingly keep our eyes upon the pageantry of Eastern Courts? Let us
rather attend to our own character than that of any despotic nation upon
earth. He hoped the bill would be recommitted.
The question for recommitting was carried--45 to 40.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the bill, when--
Mr. HEATH moved to strike out $14,000 and insert $8,000.
Mr. GILLESPIE called for the estimate, which he understood was in
possession of the committee.
Mr. SITGREAVES said there was no estimate before the House or committee.
All that he had seen was a list of the furniture which had been
purchased for the PRESIDENT in 1789. He himself had not had patience to
go through it; but if the gentleman wished it, it might be read to the
House.
Mr. HARTLEY hoped there would have been no objection to this
appropriation. He thought the Chairman of the committee had fully shown
the propriety of granting the $14,000 to the PRESIDENT, who was not
merely an officer of the Government, but a branch of it. It was not
giving the money away, but merely advancing it on account of the United
States. He was not in favor of high salaries, but he wished the
situation of the PRESIDENT to be made comfortable and respectable.
Mr. HEATH said, he believed a great part of the furniture which was
purchased in 1789, was at present as good as when laid in; this was
particularly the case with respect to the mahogany furniture; and he
thought the $8,000 would be a sufficient sum to replace all articles of
a perishable nature, such as carpets, linens, &c.
Mr. HOLLAND was in favor of striking out, because it was only necessary
to appropriate as much as might be necessary whilst Government remained
here, as, when it should be removed, the furniture now used might not be
suitable for the house at Washington. At that time, he supposed a
further sum would be called for, and therefore he thought a less sum
than $14,000 would be sufficient for the present purpose.
Mr. WILLIAMS was in favor of the bill as it stood. He had been told that
it was the intention of the State of Pennsylvania to make an offer to
the PRESIDENT of the house which had lately been erected in this city;
if so, perhaps the furniture which might be purchased for it would be
suitable for the house in the Federal City. He had before said that he
thought it would have been better to have augmented the salary of the
PRESIDENT, and let him purchase his own furniture. But as that had not
been agreed to, he wished the committee now to rise and report progress,
that information might be gained on the subject; because he thought if
he was to have that house, that sum would not be too large.
Mr. SITGREAVES said, he did not know whether the Legislature of this
State would conclude to make the PRESIDENT the offer which the gentleman
last up had mentioned; but of this he was sure, that if they did, he
could not afford to accept of it. For, if this bill passed, he was
certain that, under such circumstances, he could not remove into that
house, because he would not be able to furnish it.
Mr. S. said, he was surprised the House should so suddenly change their
opinion. He thought he had given sufficient information on the subject
to have shown the necessity of the grant. [Mr. S. here repeated what he
had before noticed respecting what had been allowed on a former
occasion.] When gentlemen entered minutely into the subject, they seemed
to have information which was not very correct. He believed the sum
mentioned in the bill not more than sufficient. The decay which had
taken place in the PRESIDENT's household would require that sum to make
it good. The gentleman from Virginia supposed there were many articles,
not perishable in their nature, which could not have been injured by
their use. He was mistaken. There was nothing but about $800 worth of
plated ware and the mahogany furniture which could at all come under
this description. Indeed, any gentleman who was in the habit of paying
his respects to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES must have seen with
regret that the appearance of his furniture was so far inferior to that
which was to be found in the houses of any of our wealthy citizens, or
even of those in moderate circumstances. When this was a notorious fact,
what ground, he asked, could gentlemen have for comparing the household
of the PRESIDENT to the pomp and splendor of Eastern Courts? On the
contrary, he thought there was a humility of appearance in the house of
the PRESIDENT, which he would not say was a disgrace to the country, but
which at least proved its rigid economy.
Mr. NICHOLAS said he voted for going into Committee of the Whole on this
subject from an idea that the sum proposed to be given to the PRESIDENT
was larger than was necessary, though he confessed he could not say what
that sum ought exactly to be; he was for giving enough and rather too
much than too little. Indeed, when he considered that the whole sum was
not to be expended, except it should be found necessary, and that a
certain style was expected to be observed in this station, he was not
for stinting the sum to what he thought just enough for purchasing
furniture. If the whole of the money granted must of necessity be
expended in furniture, he should have had more hesitation on the
subject; but as the expenditure would be left to the discretion of the
PRESIDENT, he could not suppose, from the well-known habits of economy
of that gentleman, it would be improperly disposed of. He therefore felt
no difficulty in agreeing to the sum in the bill; for though he thought
the sum too large, yet he would not so confine the appropriation as to
oblige their officer to go about the streets to look out for cheap
purchases of furniture.
Mr. BUCK said, previous to these measures being brought forward, they
had decided against any advance to the salary of the PRESIDENT. All that
time a committee was appointed to inquire into the state of the
PRESIDENT's household, and to report whether any, and what, further
accommodation was necessary to be afforded. He conceived that it was the
wish of that House that the gentleman who was coming into office should
have accommodations equal to those which had been given to the gentleman
who was leaving it. The committee had examined into facts, made a
report, and a bill had been brought in accordingly. The committee had
informed them upon what principles they had acted; and it did not appear
that they either intended to increase the splendor of the household of
the PRESIDENT, nor to add to his salary. If any member could come
forward and show that the report of the committee was erroneous, they
should have some ground upon which to reject it. He had heard no man say
this, and therefore all that had been offered on the subject ought not
to weigh against that report. When the bill was before them on Saturday,
there was a considerable majority in favor of it, and as they had no new
information on the matter, he saw no reason for a change of opinion.
Some members, Mr. B. said, had held out an idea that they were about to
give this money away, to enable the new PRESIDENT to live in the style
of foreign Courts. If the inhabitants of this city had adopted this
style, then it would be chargeable against the PRESIDENT, but not
otherwise, since it was acknowledged he had not kept pace with them in
this respect. The appropriating this money would only be converting it
into so much public property; for, when his term of office should
expire, he could not carry away a single article. It was not, therefore,
giving away a farthing, but merely providing for our own convenience to
enable the PRESIDENT to fill the office with comfort and reputation; and
as they had nothing before them to show the sum too large, he saw no
propriety in rejecting it, for the purpose of inserting any other.
Mr. RUTHERFORD said, if the House had committed an error one day, it
would be well for them to correct it another. If they were to give
$14,000 away on the present occasion, he thought they would commit a
very serious error. The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. SITGREAVES) had
said many of the citizens of Philadelphia lived in a superior style to
the PRESIDENT. If so, he would say they were very bad citizens, since it
was proper that the citizens of this rising Republic should cultivate a
simplicity of living and of manners.
Mr. MACON thought some of the arguments introduced on this occasion were
very improper; such as the habits of economy or private fortune of the
gentleman who was to succeed to the Presidential chair. They were about
to settle a permanent principle, which it was proper to do at this time,
before a new Presidency commenced. He knew nothing of the private
property of the person who was to fill the office, nor had it any thing
to do with the matter. The question was, whether they were to go over
the same ground every four or eight years of furnishing the house of a
new PRESIDENT? He did not wish that it should be so; he wished the
salary to be the only consideration which the PRESIDENT should receive
for his services. If it had not been settling a permanent principle, he
should not perhaps have opposed it.
It had been said that the old PRESIDENT of Congress had a household
furnished him, but he received no salary from the United States except
his household. He considered this sum as an advance upon the salary paid
to the PRESIDENT by the different States, and before any salary was
fixed by the United States; but now, as an ample salary was paid to the
PRESIDENT, he did not think such a provision should be continued. It was
sometimes said that it was no matter what sum was appropriated, as, if
it was not wanted, it would not be expended; but, he believed, whatever
sum was appropriated would be expended; for he was not one of those who
thought that revenue could not be found. He believed if the money was
granted, it would be both found and spent.
Mr. SITGREAVES wished to correct the gentleman last up with respect to
one fact. He had said the PRESIDENT of the old Congress had no salary.
It was true that he did not receive any thing under that name, but there
was a provision, not merely for the furniture of his house, but for the
constant provision of it; and this was so considerable that from 1778 to
1779, in one year, eighty-three thousand dollars were paid for that
purpose.
Mr. MACON wished to know what sort of money this was; he supposed it was
in depreciated paper.
Mr. SITGREAVES was not certain what kind of money was meant.
Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH said, in settling an affair of this kind, it was
proper to have respect to the office, and not to the man who was to fill
it. He could himself consider the establishment of the PRESIDENT's
household in no other light than in the nature of a compensation for his
services, in the same way that he considered the privilege of franking,
stationery, and newspapers, allowed the members of both Houses, to be
such; because, if they were not allowed to them, they would have to
purchase those articles themselves; and if furniture was not provided by
Government for the house of the PRESIDENT, he must himself furnish it
out of his salary, or from his private purse. To refuse to provide the
necessary furniture would therefore be to reduce his salary; for it was
true that this plan of presenting furniture to the PRESIDENT was adopted
before the salary was fixed, so that it must have been considered as
being additional to the salary. And was that salary, he asked, near so
valuable now as it was when fixed? Certainly not. He trusted, therefore,
they should not reduce it.
This sum, Mr. S. said, was mentioned, from a consideration that four
years hence the seat of Government would be removed, and that then the
furniture would be in a great degree useless. They, therefore, only
recommended such a sum as they thought would be sufficient to put the
furniture in a proper state for that term. He believed that fourteen
thousand dollars would not do more than that.
Mr. MACON said he was always opposed to the privileges allowed to
members of franking, &c. Gentlemen talked about a statement; he did not
know what that might contain, he had not seen it; but he did not know
how it could require fourteen thousand dollars to repair furniture which
at first cost only thirteen thousand.
Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH said, the gentleman last up was inaccurate in his
statement. The thirteen thousand dollars which were allowed for
furniture for the late PRESIDENT, was in addition to the furniture
which had already been in possession of the PRESIDENT of Congress.
Mr. SHERBURNE said, the question was with respect to the quantum of
money to be granted, as every one seemed to allow that a certain sum was
necessary. By having recourse to what was done for other officers of the
Government, they might, perhaps, form an estimate of what would be
reasonable on the present occasion. A practice had been established of
allowing our Ministers to foreign countries a sum as an outfit equal to
one year's salary; so that nine thousand dollars were allowed a Minister
for this purpose, though it might happen that he would not be employed
more than a few months in the service. He thought, therefore, that
fourteen thousand dollars could not be thought too large a sum for the
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, whose term of service was for four
years, and which would go to his successor in office; whereas, the nine
thousand dollars allowed to a foreign Minister were entirely at his
disposal, though he might not be in the service more than a month.
Mr. AMES said, it appeared to him that it would be desirable to proceed
according to precedent, as nearly as they could. It was not desirable to
innovate or change the established order of things, except strong
reasons existed for the change. On inquiring what had been the practice
heretofore, they found the PRESIDENT of the old Congress, as well as the
PRESIDENT now going out of office, had establishments made for their
household similar to that now proposed. If they looked forward to that
period when the seat of Government was to be removed, and considered the
furniture which would be necessary for the house in the Federal city, it
would be seen that there would be a necessity for a new establishment at
that time, as it was evident that the present furniture or what might be
purchased with the sum now contemplated, would be wholly inadequate to
the furnishing of that house. He supposed an additional grant of twelve
or fifteen thousand pounds would be necessary for that purpose.
We have chosen an elective Government, said Mr. A., and if it were meant
to be kept pure, they must encourage the people to make choice of such
men, without respect to fortune, as they think will serve them best, but
if instead of providing a suitable household for the PRESIDENT, they
left him to provide for himself in this respect, men of large fortune
only could engage in this part of the public service. And would this, he
asked, be doing honor to the Republican Government? He thought not.
The question for striking out was put and negatived--55 to 36. The
committee then rose, and when the question was about to be put in the
House--
Mr. GALLATIN said, the provision of the bill left it to the discretion
of the PRESIDENT whether he would expend the whole of the money, or not.
His opinion was, that the sum was too large; but the question for
striking it out having been negatived, the expenditure must be left to
the discretion of the PRESIDENT. He did not mean to go into any detail.
He did not wish to place the gentleman coming into office in a worse
situation than that of him who was going out; and as he felt no
objection to leave it to the PRESIDENT to make use of the whole or a
part of this money, as his discretion should direct, he should vote for
the bill.
Mr. CLAIBORNE said, as provision had been made for furniture for the
gentleman now in office, he was inclined to vote for the fourteen
thousand dollars proposed now to be granted for the same purpose to the
gentleman who was to succeed him.
Mr. HENDERSON wished to give his reasons for voting against this bill.
He wished to place the PRESIDENT coming into office in as comfortable
circumstances as he who was going out; but it appeared to him that the
sum proposed was larger than necessary for this purpose. Indeed, said
Mr. H., when he read an article of the constitution touching this
subject, he had his doubts with respect to the constitutionality of the
proceeding. That article said, "that the PRESIDENT should receive a
compensation which should neither be increased nor diminished during the
period for which he should have been elected; and that he should not
receive within that period any other emoluments from the United States,
or any of them."
Mr. SITGREAVES believed there could be no doubt as to the
constitutionality of the proposed grant of money, as the clause ran,
"during the period for which he should have been elected," which would
not prevent them from passing any number of acts before he went into
office.
The question on the passing of the bill was then taken by yeas and nays,
and stood 63 to 27, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin,
Theophilus Bradbury, Daniel Buck, Dempsey Burges, Thomas
Claiborne, Joshua Coit, William Cooper, William Craik,
Samuel W. Dana, James Davenport, George Dent, George Ege,
Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Nathaniel Freeman, junior,
Albert Gallatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry
Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, William B. Grove,
Robert Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison, Thomas Hartley,
William Hindman, John Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard,
Edward Livingston, Samuel Lyman, William Lyman, James
Madison, Francis Malbone, Andrew Moore, Frederick A.
Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Nicholas, John Page,
Josiah Parker, John Patton, Elisha R. Potter, John Read,
John Richards, Samuel Sewall, John S. Sherburne, Samuel
Sitgreaves, Thompson J. Skinner, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel
Smith, Isaac Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Richard
Sprigg, junior, Thomas Sprigg, John Swanwick, Zephaniah
Swift, George Thatcher, John E. Van Allen, Philip Van
Cortlandt, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams,
NAYS.--Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Samuel J. Cabell,
Gabriel Christie, John Clopton, Isaac Coles, Jesse
Franklin, James Gillespie, Christopher Greenup, Andrew
Gregg, Wade Hampton, John Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, John
Heath, Thomas Henderson, James Holland, Andrew Jackson,
George Jackson, Aaron Kitchell, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel
Macon, John Milledge, Anthony New, Alexander D. Orr, Robert
Rutherford, William Stradwick, and Richard Winn.
_Military and Naval Appropriations._
The House went into a Committee of the Whole on this subject, when,
after some discussion respecting the price of rations, Mr. GALLATIN
insisting upon seventeen cents being a sufficiently high calculation,
and Mr. W. SMITH abiding by the estimate of the War Department at twenty
cents; the latter was agreed upon thirty-six to thirty-four, and the pay
and subsistence of the Army was settled, but which has since undergone
an alteration, owing to the two companies of cavalry being added by a
new bill. The sum for forage and clothing was also agreed upon, but
which afterwards, of course, from the above alteration, underwent an
augmentation. The hospital department being under consideration,
Mr. W. SMITH moved to fill the blank with thirty thousand dollars.
Mr. GALLATIN moved to fill it with ten thousand. He said, they had this
year had a statement of the expense of the Military Establishment, by
which they found that the hospital department had cost six thousand nine
hundred and five dollars. It had been the uniform practice of the House
to appropriate from thirty to forty thousand dollars under this head,
though the expense had never exceeded seven thousand; and to apply the
surplus to other purposes. He thought it wrong to appropriate four times
the sum necessary, and had therefore proposed to fill the blank with ten
thousand dollars, which was fifty per cent. more than had ever been
expended for the purpose.
Mr. PARKER believed than ten thousand dollars would be enough to pay for
physic for the Army. Indeed he believed it was generally expended in
wine and luxuries by the officers, and that little of it went to the use
of the subordinates.
The question for ten thousand dollars was put and carried.
The blank for the Ordnance Department was filled with forty thousand
dollars; and that for the fortifications of the ports and harbors of the
United States with twenty-four thousand dollars.
Mr. GALLATIN moved to fill the blank for the Quartermaster's Department,
the Indian Department, the defensive protection of the frontiers,
bounties, and all the contingent expenses of the War Department, with
three hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. VENABLE said, if the sum necessary for each of the above items could
be specified, he would rather have it so expressed than have the whole
in one sum.
Mr. W. SMITH said it would come to the same thing, if the several items
were voted in an aggregate sum, as they were all contingent expenses. He
should move to have the blank filled with four hundred and forty-six
thousand dollars.
Mr. GALLATIN observed there were two motions before the committee: one
to fill the blank with four hundred and forty-six thousand dollars, the
other with three hundred thousand. He would observe that one of the
items in this estimate, viz., that for the fortifications of West Point,
ought not to be included under this head; but, as to the other items, he
would mention, in answer to what had fallen from the gentleman from
Virginia (Mr. VENABLE) what was the reason which had induced the
committee to put them in one sum, which was to obtain the very object he
had in view in wishing to have all the items stated separately.
It would be recollected that they had had a letter from the Secretary of
the Treasury, in which he said, "that the appropriations for the
Military and Naval Establishments were considered as general grants of
money; and, though they were to be accounted for according to law, yet
it was the practice of the officers of the Treasury not to consider each
appropriation as specific, but the whole as a general grant of money."
This practice was making the law a mere farce, since the officers of the
Treasury did not consider themselves as at all bound by the specific
sums. He therefore concluded it to be proper to pass the law in such a
manner as to confine the expense to the appropriation for the different
items. It was said to be impossible to carry the law into execution on
this principle. It was said there were a number of contingent expenses
which could not be exactly ascertained, and that therefore it was
necessary the officers of the Treasury should have a certain discretion
given them to make use of the surplus of any item for which more than
was necessary had been appropriated. He believed the uncertainty here
mentioned existed, and therefore it had been concluded to be best to put
the contingent articles together in one sum, in order to give bounds to
the discretion of the Department.
Having given the reasons which caused the bill to be brought in in this
shape, Mr. G. said he would mention the items upon which the sum he had
proposed to fill up the blank was composed. For defensive protection,
sixty thousand dollars; for the Quartermaster's Department, one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars. This latter sum has been estimated at two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars, but upon what ground he was at a
loss to know. The Army would now be fixed in garrison, and would not
have to march from post to post. None of the reasons given last year for
this expense would now apply; and he thought it unreasonable that the
same sum should be allowed for this item which was allowed at the time
when they were engaged in an Indian war.
In 1789, when we had eight hundred
men in garrison, the expenses of this
department was $11,076
In 1790, he did not recollect the number
of troops, but not more, he believed 45,763
In 1791 92,223
In 1792 (in the height of the Indian war) 206,510
In 1793 178,602
In 1794 263,000
In 1795 317,647
What would be the expense of 1796, could not be exactly ascertained. It
appeared by the statement which they had received that upwards of two
hundred and four thousand dollars had been expended. Whether there were
any further demands unsettled, he could not tell. It appeared,
therefore, that the expense of that Department had increased from eleven
thousand to three hundred thousand dollars. This had been owing to two
causes--the increase of the Army, and by the Indian war. There had also
been a great loss of horses from having forage to fetch great distances.
Mr. DEARBORN could see no reason for making the appropriation so large
as had been proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina. It must be
recollected that the Army was in garrison, where there were
barrack-houses convenient for the officers and men, and contracts had
been entered into for delivering provisions at the different forts, and
there would therefore be a great deduction on account of the
transportation, in which seven or eight hundred horses had been used up,
and the horses on hand might also be sold. Camp equipage was a heavy
article of expense, but which would not be wanted whilst the troops were
in garrison. These two articles would of themselves make a very
considerable part of the whole item. There would also be a saving in the
purchase of horses, as the cavalry made more than half the expense. He
did not think more than one hundred thousand dollars could be wanted
under this head, except it were wanted for making new forts or
fortifications. There would now be no necessity for building officers'
houses, and huts for the soldiers for winter quarters. All these
circumstances considered, he thought the sum he had mentioned would be
sufficient.
The question for filling the blank with four hundred and forty-six
thousand was put and negatived, there being only thirteen votes in favor
of it. The sense of the committee was then taken upon three hundred
thousand, and carried--there being 51 votes in favor of it.
Mr. W. SMITH then moved to add to the bill, "For the repairs of the
fortifications of West Point, twenty thousand dollars."
Mr. COIT inquired if there was any estimate of this item.
Mr. GALLATIN said there was no estimate respecting West Point.
Mr. W. SMITH said there was an estimate for Niagara, Oswego, Detroit,
&c., which might include West Point, he proposed therefore to change the
motion, and insert "Niagara, Oswego, Detroit, &c.," which would include
West Point, if necessary.
Mr. GALLATIN wished the gentleman from South Carolina to say whether he
had any information with respect to West Point.
Mr. W. SMITH said, he had no particular information on the subject, but
as it was of importance the works there should be very complete, he
thought it prudent to grant something for that object.
Mr. GALLATIN hoped the proposition would be rejected. There was no
necessity for repairing the fortifications of the posts mentioned more
than any other of the forts upon the Lakes. They knew nothing of them,
but that they were too large for the garrisons in them; but he believed
if they once begun to appropriate money for this purpose, it would
become a yearly expense, And whilst they had been parsimonious with
respect to the ports and harbors of the United States, having only
appropriated twenty-four thousand dollars to that purpose, he could see
no reason for granting twenty thousand dollars for repairing the forts
of Niagara, Oswego, and Detroit, against a few Indians; as it was well
known that a block-house was as good a fortification against the Indians
as any other. When the regiment was raised to go and take possession of
that country, they built all their forts as they went along, without any
expense, except the price of a few tools. He hoped, therefore, they
should not by voting for this sum, introduce a new item of expense into
their annual appropriations.
Mr. W. SMITH agreed with the gentleman last up, that enough had not been
appropriated for the defence of the ports and harbors of the United
States; but if they had done wrong in one instance, it was no rule why
they should continue to do so. He thought it very important that the
forts he had mentioned should be so secured at least as that they should
not go to ruin. Under this item was included West Point, which was a
fort of great consequence; and he would rather forty thousand dollars
were appropriated than twenty thousand for this purpose.
Mr. DEARBORN said, as far as the proposition related to Niagara, Oswego,
and Detroit, he thought it improper to appropriate money for their
defence. He believed it would require a year or two to know what was
necessary to be done there. At Niagara, the works were large enough for
six or seven thousand men, and it would become a question whether they
should be reduced, or kept up as they were; at Oswego, nothing more
could be necessary than a block-house. It was true, there were
considerable works there, but until it was decided what they should do
with them, it would be improper to appropriate money for their repair.
The same thing might be said of Detroit. He had no idea that the
PRESIDENT could have information from those places of what was
necessary. Whatever temporary repair might be required there, the troops
themselves would be able to effect. As to West Point, he did not know
any thing about it, except that it was a place of consequence; he also
knew that a great deal of money had been laid out upon it. He hoped they
should get into a new system with respect to the defence of our ports
and harbors; and until that was done, he should be against granting any
considerable sum for this purpose. If gentlemen were in possession of
any information on the subject, he perhaps might be induced to vote for
a small sum: but not until he knew more of the matter.
Mr. LIVINGSTON spoke of the importance of the fort at West Point, and of
the necessity of keeping it in proper repair.
Mr. COIT said, the question seemed to have taken a new turn. He presumed
that West Point was not in the idea of the Secretary of War when he made
the estimate upon which this bill was founded. If it had been, it would
have been very improper to have begun with Oswego, and include West
Point in the _et cetera_. In June, 1796, 20,000 dollars, he said, were
appropriated for the repairs of this fort, and they had not been
informed that it had been expended.
Mr. GALLATIN said, there had been 7,000 dollars expended at West Point;
the other 13,000 dollars were not intended for that fort. The present
appropriation was doubtless intended for the forts mentioned, and those
in the same quarter. If any thing was wanted for West Point, a distinct
proposition should come before them for that purpose.
Mr. W. SMITH observed that the gentleman last up had stated that only
7,000 dollars had been expended at West Point; that was only the amount
which had been expended at the time the estimate was made; but the whole
might have been since laid out, as then only 520,000 dollars of the
appropriation of the Military Establishment had been expended.
Mr. GALLATIN said, that the total expenditure of the estimate alluded to
was 1,280,479 dollars.
The question was put and negatived, there being only 19 votes in favor
of it.
The committee then rose and had leave to sit again.
TUESDAY, February 28.
_Algerine Captives: Ransom._
The Secretary of State, to whom was referred the petitions of George
Smith and John Robertson, who prayed for a repayment of the money which
they had themselves paid for their ransom from Algerine slavery,
reported that the ransom of George Smith cost $2,426, of which Colonel
Humphreys had paid $1,526, and George Smith the remainder; that by the
late return of our citizens from Algiers, the expense attending the
redemption of each man was ascertained to be $2,396, independent of the
expense of the general negotiation, and allowing for small inaccuracies
on account of some expenses which could not at present be ascertained.
He recommends, therefore, that George Smith have paid him $873, which,
with the sum paid by Colonel Humphreys, would make about $2,400. John
Robinson paid for his own ransom $1,518, the interest upon which came to
$516; the Secretary therefore recommends that $2,034 be paid to him.
On motion of Mr. SWANWICK, this report was referred to a select
committee, viz: Messrs. SWANWICK, BLOUNT, COIT, SEWALL, and PARKER.
_General Appropriation Bill._
The amendments from the Senate to the bill making appropriations for the
support of Government for the year 1797, were taken up and agreed to, as
also those to the bill laying additional duties on sundry articles of
impost. The amendments which were agreed to were to add to white cotton
goods, "velvets and velverets, whether printed, stained, colored, or
otherwise, and all muslins and muslinets, two and a half per cent." And
also a new section, enacting that an addition of 10 per cent. should be
laid upon these articles when imported in ships or vessels not of the
United States. The duties are to take place after the 31st of December
next.
_Military and Naval Appropriations._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
Military and Naval Appropriations; when, the pay and subsistence of
three captains in the Naval department being under consideration--
Mr. SWANWICK thought it would be necessary to have a laborer or two
employed to take care of the vessels and materials.
Mr. W. SMITH said, the estimate for the captains was $4,200; if the sum
was made $5,000, there would be sufficient for the payment of any
laborers which might be necessary. Agreed to.
The blank for the payment of Military Pensions was agreed to be filled
with $96,350.
And for making good the deficiencies of the Military Establishment of
1796, $76,312.
Also, for the payment of the expedition of General Sevier into the
Cherokee nation, $22,816.
The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.
_Executive Veto on the Army Bill._
The following Message, in writing, was received from the PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES, containing his objections to the bill for fixing the
Military Establishment:
_Gentlemen of the House of Representatives_:
Having maturely considered the bill to alter and amend an
act, entitled "An act to ascertain and fix the Military
Establishment of the United States," which was presented to
me on the twenty-second day of this month, I now return it
to the House of Representatives, in which it originated,
with my objections.
_First._ If the bill passes into a law, the two companies
of light dragoons will be, from that moment, _legally_ out
of service, though they will continue afterwards _actually_
in the service; and for their services during this
interval, namely, from the time of _legal_ to the time of
_actual_ discharge, it will not be lawful to pay them,
unless some future provision be made by law. Though they
may be discharged at the pleasure of Congress, in justice
they ought to receive their pay, not only to the time of
passing the law, but at least to the time of their actual
discharge.
_Secondly._ It will be inconvenient and injurious to the
public to dismiss the light dragoons as soon as notice of
the law can be conveyed to them, one of the companies
having been lately destined to a necessary and important
service.
_Thirdly._ The companies of light dragoons consist of one
hundred and twenty-six non-commissioned officers and
privates, who are bound to serve as dismounted dragoons
when ordered so to do. They have received, in bounties,
about two thousand dollars; one of them is completely
equipped, and above half of the non-commissioned officers
and privates have yet to serve more than one-third of the
time of their enlistment; and, besides, there will, in the
course of the year, be a considerable deficiency in the
complement of infantry intended to be continued. Under
these circumstances, to discharge the dragoons does not
seem to comport with economy.
_Fourthly._ It is generally agreed that some cavalry,
either militia or regular, will be necessary; and,
according to the best information I have been able to
obtain, it is my opinion that the latter will be less
expensive and more useful than the former in preserving
peace between the frontier settlers and the Indians, and,
therefore, a part of the Military Establishment should
consist of cavalry.