Mr. _Kelly_. How often had he sailed, and had he been on the coast of
Africa?
Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_. How often had you been at sea before?--I had been
to North America before.
You had never been to Africa before?--No.
You do not know what is usual on the coast of Africa?--No.
The Honourable Captain _Denman_, R. N. sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant
_Talfourd_.
Were you commanding on the African coast at any time?--I was commanding
on a district of the African coast.
Did that embrace the river Gallinas?--The river Gallinas was within the
district.
How long, while you were on that coast, were you acquainted with that
river?--I was myself constantly in sight of the river for a period of
eight or ten months.
Had you also, besides the period you were opposite that river, other
opportunities of observing what was going on there?--Whenever I was not
there myself, I left a vessel to watch the place and report to me what
occurred.
We have heard there were some slave factories, barracoons there?--There
were no less than six slave factories on the shore.
According to your observation, what was the trade carried on
there?--There was no trade whatever but the slave trade; exclusively the
slave trade.
You did not yourself know the proprietors of the barracoons?--I did not
know any of them personally.
Did you ever see any of them in their warehouses?--No, except one.
Who was that?--I believe it was Martinez, but I am not certain: the name
we knew him by was Pedro Fernandos.
Mr. _Kelly_. You will state what you do know?--The name we knew him by
was Domingo Fernandos.
Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_. Did you know Ignatio Rolo?--Yes, I have seen
him at Gallinas.
What did he do at the Gallinas?--He was landing from the Saracen when I
saw him.
That was the vessel commanded by Captain Hill?--Yes.
Did you ever see him on any of those factories?--I never saw him, except
at the factory at which he landed.
Did he land at the factory?--He was landed in a man-of-war’s boat.
Cross-examined by Mr. _Kelly_.
Had you means, while in the river Gallinas from time to time, of
ascertaining how many towns or villages there were as far up the river
as you went?--There were, to my knowledge, some three or four or five
towns on different branches of the river.
How high up did you go yourself?--I went up about ten or twelve miles, I
suppose.
You say that as far as your knowledge extends there was no other trade
there but the slave trade?--My positive knowledge is that there was
nothing but the slave trade there.
Do you mean to represent that you knew all the ships containing British
merchandise consigned to that place, and what became of the merchandise
which was landed by the ships? Have you no doubt that you knew enough of
what took place at that place, to be aware what became of the
merchandise landed from every ship?--The question involves two or three
points; I must answer in the first place, that every vessel that landed
cargoes there I knew of.
During what period?--During a period of ten months most particularly.
What ten months was that?--From the month of March or the month of
April, 1840, until the month of February 1841.
Have you never heard of a ship, called the Supply, landing merchandise
there to the value of between 13,000_l._ and 14,000_l._?--Not during
that period. I beg not to be misunderstood; I do not deny that vessels
have landed cargoes there to a large amount, but I say the slave trade
is the exclusive business there: there is no produce.
That is inference, perhaps, hardly warranted by your premises: is there
any thing in the nature of the case to prevent the importing merchandise
for consumption by the natives on the spot, and is it not consumed by
the natives?--I say no produce is exported.
Mr. Justice _Maule_. The question is, what was done with the
merchandise; was it given in exchange?--There were two articles of
import, which are the one eaten, and the other used by the slave traders
to buy slaves.
Mr. _Kelly_. What I understood you to say was, that you are not aware
that there is any produce exported; but I ask whether articles are not
imported to be consumed by the natives?--I do not mean to say a few
hundred weight or a ton is not exported, but nothing to be called
produce or exports.
You do not say there are not a few hundreds of tons?--I say not a
hundred weight.
That was the case during the ten months you were there?--I have known
the Gallinas since 1835. I was in charge of that station during two
years; during that time I was ten months stationed at Gallinas, and had
reports from the place.
When you say there is no trade carried on there but the slave trade, do
you exclude from your observation the shipments of goods from England
landed there and sold for money? for consumption there, sold for
money?--If you put that question again, I shall understand it.
I wish to ask you, as you state that there is nothing but the slave
trade carried on, that there are no exports, whether the trade may not
consist of landing goods and selling them for money, as well as
purchasing goods there, and carrying them away?--Just so.
Do you mean to exclude or include the fact of merchandise being landed
there, and purchased there, and paid for in money, so that a stranger
carrying it there, and selling it and receiving his money, would be
doing what of course was perfectly lawful?--My answer is, that a person
landing his goods there would not be able to procure a return, but that
all the goods would go for the purchase of slaves, and nothing else:
that is my reason for saying nothing but the slave trade is carried on
there.
I will call them all slave traders, if you please. Do you mean to say a
man may not purchase a quantity of goods which he may barter for slaves;
may he not sell a part of them also to the natives?--The natives have no
means of paying for them, except by the exchange for slaves: there is no
produce.
As regards the shippers from this country; supposing that a man were to
ship, not as agent, but on his own account, a cargo from this country,
receiving money for what he exported, do you mean to say there would be
any slave trading in that?--I should say not of necessity.
Mr. Justice _Maule_. Suppose he comes away in ballast, if such a
transaction happens?--I have never known of such a case; there was no
English trade during the time I was there.
Mr. _Kelly_. Do you mean that no English vessels went there?--Oh, yes;
English vessels passed and had some little proceedings; the Augusta, for
instance, was a vessel I always suspected.
Whatever took place at that place, the Gallinas, for some years before
you do not know?--I know from the statement of the natives that there
was no trade.
I ask you, do you know of a vessel, called the Supply, having landed and
disposed of merchandise at the Gallinas to the amount of 13,000_l._ or
14,000_l._?--There was no such vessel there during the two years I was
there; certainly not during the ten months.
This is a place to which trading of the nature to which I have referred
may have taken place at a time previous to the time you mention?--The
trade of the nature I describe has taken place since 1835.
I will give you the dates; I will mention the year 1837; do you know of
a vessel called the Milford, having landed and disposed of goods to the
amount of 6,000_l._ or 7,000_l._ at the Gallinas?--No, I was not there
at the time; but that does not alter the case, for the slave trade
existed there.
I do not ask you as to the existence of the slave trade, but whether
there has not been lawful commerce and ships coming away in ballast?--I
know that 800 tons of goods were landed during the time I was there, and
that none of the vessels went away except with money or goods, and
except when they were consigned for cargoes from the Havannah, which was
the case in nine cases out of ten.
According to your experience some vessels do carry commodities to a
great extent, and receive payment in actual money and sail away?--Yes,
those are exceptions, but such cases do occur.
Others would go and carry their goods there and receive slaves?--No,
that is not the system. The freight of the vessel is consigned from the
Havannah to a slave factor, Rolo, for instance, at Gallinas; she sails
again in ballast, the freight is all paid to Havannah; that is the
general rule.
From what, according to your sense of the word “slave trade,” do you
make out that that vessel was at all engaged in the slave trade?--I do
not say that vessel is of necessity engaged in the slave trade, for I do
not think it is of necessity that persons know what they are about, but
I say that the consequence of it is the slave trade.
You mean that those merchants and mercantile persons are carrying on the
slave trade?--Precisely so.
A person living any where else, and exporting produce there, might very
well export it and get his money for it, without at all knowing to what
purpose that should be applied?--Certainly, that is very possible.
With respect to this place, called the Gallinas, I am quite sure that
you have given the account of the place as you believe it to exist; had
you not a hand in destroying the factories there, which is the subject
of one or two actions against you at this moment?--There are actions
brought against me for the destruction of slave factories.
When did the event take place? I do not ask whether you had any thing to
do with it of course, but when did the event take place?--About
November, 1840.
Has your experience led you to various other parts of the coast of
Africa, where the slave trade is carried on?--Yes.
Are not there certain parts of the coast where there is a lawful trade
as well as an unlawful trade?--In almost all places, the Gallinas is the
exception.
Is your knowledge, that the Gallinas is the exception, obtained from
your personal presence on the spot?--It is obtained from my personal
presence on the spot.
So that any person, in England or elsewhere, might export commodities to
half a dozen places along the coast of Africa, and might as well export
there without knowledge as any other place?--With the distinction that
there is no other trade carried on there.
How is a merchant carrying on business in this country, receiving an
order for 5,000_l._ worth of goods from the Gallinas, to know that the
Gallinas is an exception to other places?--I think if he does not know
any thing of the character of the parties, he may be ignorant of the use
to which they are applied.
You mean the character of the party to whom the goods are to be
sent?--Yes.
What would the character of the person, to whom the goods were sent,
have to do with the fact how the person in this country is to know that
the Gallinas is the exception, and that the goods are not going there to
fair persons as well as to other persons?--If he knows the person to
whom the goods are shipped at Gallinas, I should suppose he would know
there was nothing but slave trading carried on.
That is, if he knew as well as you who have been on the spot; are there
not many persons who carry on the slave trade, who also carry on a very
extensive lawful trade?--Undoubtedly.
Then how is a gentleman in England or America, who exports his
merchandise on those orders, to know the use to which they are to be
applied?--If he knows any thing of Gallinas, he will know the object to
which they are applied.
If he does not know?--If he does not know any thing of Gallinas, he is
not necessarily guilty of doing any thing which is wrong.
When a vessel is under the English flag, and manned by English sailors,
is there not a far greater facility as to search, and as to fair trial
and condemnation, than if it is a foreign vessel?--Yes, when there is
suspicion of the slave trade; it depends upon some of the treaties.
Is there any thing at all to restrict or prevent your searching every
vessel under the English flag, commanded by an English captain, and
manned by an English crew?--Nothing at all, if we suspect.
You do it without opposition?--Yes.
When a vessel is seized which is English, it goes without any delay
before an English tribunal?--Yes.
When it is a foreign vessel, does not it go before a Mixed
Commission?--It depends upon the nature of the treaty; under some of the
treaties it would go to the tribunal before a Mixed Commission.
A French vessel would go before a French tribunal?--Yes.
A Spanish before a mixed tribunal?--Yes.
And a Portuguese?--Yes.
When was it you first sailed for the coast of Africa?--I left England in
February, 1840.
Did you before that know the Gallinas?--Yes, I knew it in 1835.
You had been there in 1835?--Yes.
You went there first in 1835, in the discharge of your professional
duties? Before that time were you aware there was such a place?--No, I
knew nothing about the coast of Africa.
You did not know that the Gallinas was a place where slaves were more or
less dealt in than any other place?--I had no reason to know any thing
about it till I went there.
Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_.
Nor the trade any where else I presume?--No.
How many merchants are there at the Gallinas to whom goods might be
consigned?--I believe they are all agents; there are no actual
merchants.
How many people are there?--There are twenty or thirty Europeans
altogether.
Were there persons to whom goods would be consigned, except those in
slave factories?--There was not another white man.
Have the natives, in any of those villages, any means of paying for
British produce?--They have no means of paying but by slaves; the
country does not produce any produce.
You have been asked, whether a merchant here may not ship to the coast
of Africa without knowing the nature of the trade there; do you think a
merchant who had exported for twenty years could be ignorant?--It is
impossible he could fail to know the nature of the trade.
Mr. _Kelly_. My Lord, my learned friend has called for a letter, which
the witness says was put in the post on the 10th of June, 1839.
Mr. Justice _Maule_. I thought it was 1840.
Mr. _Kelly_. No, 1839, four years ago. The letter has been most
carefully looked for, and is not in existence. A few days ago, Mr.
Lawford looked carefully for it, with the assistance of some of Mr.
Zulueta’s people, and they are utterly unable to find it. I shall not
consider him a witness, if my learned friend wishes to examine Mr.
Lawford as to that matter, he may. The effect of it has been stated. If
he wishes to ask those persons who are aware whether such a letter had
existence, and whether it is not lost, I will produce them, in order to
afford him the opportunity of putting the question.
Lieutenant Colonel _Edward Nichol_ sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant
_Bompas_.
Have you become acquainted with the coast of Africa?--A long time.
How long?--Since the year 1822.
Had you any official employment upon that coast?--I was governor of the
Isle of Ascension, and afterwards of Fernando Po, five years at each
place.
In that situation, was it your duty to attend to the coast in other
parts besides Fernando Po and the other place where you were immediately
governor, and to make a report upon it?--It was.
Did you receive reports from the officers of the navy, or others, with
respect to the various parts of the coast?--I have received reports from
upwards of 200 officers of the navy, and masters of merchant ships on
different parts of the coast, and have sent a small schooner attached to
my command at Fernando Po, to make reports of the different slave
trading stations and what was going on there.
Did you know the river Gallinas?--Yes.
Have you been there yourself?--I have.
For what period has it been within your observation?--Since 1822; I
visited it in 1822, in His Majesty’s ship Victor.
Up to what time?--We did not stay long; we were chasing a slaver off the
port.
How long had you occasion to know that place?--From that time to 1834;
from 1822 to 1834; I left the coast in December, 1834; I have had
continual communication with it since.
During that time what was the trade carried on at the Gallinas?--The
slave trade.
Was there any produce exported from the Gallinas at all?--Not a particle
that ever came to my knowledge, or under my observation, or from the
information I have received.
Was the country round the Gallinas a country producing that which was
fit for export or usually exported?--Nothing but stones and trees,
hardly what would subsist the people living there.
Did you know of the existence of slave establishments there?--As
notoriously as that this Court is here.
You have seen them yourself?--Yes, certainly, and had reports from the
officers I sent there.
Were you there more than once?--No.
Did you know any persons residing there? Did you know Pedro Blanco?--I
knew him from reports; they kept out of my sight, they did not come near
me.
Was it part of your duty to suppress the slave trade as much as
possible?--That is the duty of every British officer.
It is necessary I should ask you whether it was part of your
duty?--Certainly. I had no authority to seize slave ships though, but to
give information to His Majesty’s squadron; and I believe I did that to
some good amount.
It was your duty to obtain information of what was going on along the
coast, and to communicate it to the naval officers, to enable them to
seize the vessels?--Certainly.
What was about the distance of your station from the Gallinas?--About
1500 miles I should say, except when I have been running down the coast.
Fernando Po is a long way from the Gallinas.
But you have been running down the coast and obtaining reports?--Yes,
both by myself and my officers.
Had you the means of ascertaining the way in which the slave trade was
carried on?--I had.
What was the course; was it by barter or money?--You cannot get slaves
for money. I never saw a slave got for money. They cannot be got without
British manufactured goods supplied by the merchants.
They get British manufactured goods and barter them for slaves?--That is
the general course of dealing for slaves.
They are brought from the interior of Africa to places where the trade
is carried on?--Just so.
Are the slaves brought to the Gallinas for the purpose of being bartered
for the goods there?--It is the most notorious and infamous slave port
on the coast of Africa. There is a continual drain of slaves from all
parts of the country to it; there is nothing going on there but the
slave trade, any man sending goods there must know that.
Mr. _Kelly_. I do not know why we are to listen to these speeches, or
even to this evidence. Unless something of this, so well known to this
gentleman so constantly visiting that spot, had been communicated to the
prisoner at the bar before the transaction in question, I am at a loss
to know how he can be affected by it. I dare say there are many persons
in this Court, whose geographical knowledge may have extended as far as
the Gallinas, who never heard of such a thing until they heard it upon
this occasion; and I do not know how notoriety to people on the spot can
be evidence against the defendant, who has never been on that spot, and
never had any communication of any kind with any person on the spot.
Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_. I hardly know how many objections are to be
raised; to show the nature of the trade I must call these witnesses.
Mr. _Kelly_. I have no question to ask you.
Mr. _John Brown_ called again. Examined by Mr. _Payne_.
Will you produce enclosure No. 18? (_The same was produced_).
(_To_ Captain _Hill_). Will you look at that, and state whose
handwriting you believe it to be?--I believe this handwriting to be
Bernardos’s, but I did not see him write it; I have some writing I saw
him write in my possession.
From the knowledge you have acquired, seeing him write, do you believe
it to be his writing?--Yes.
Have you had that paper in your possession before?--This is one of the
papers I found on board the vessel when I seized her.
Mr. _James Brodie_ sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_.