Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_. I thought that that might be taken as a fact;
the evidence of Mr. Zulueta before the Committee is in evidence; and
there it is stated that the vessel was condemned, because Captain
Jennings had no funds to defend her: I thought I might take that as a
fact.
Mr. _Kelly_. No, nothing of the kind; I object to any evidence of the
proceedings in Sierra Leone respecting this vessel. Mr. Zulueta, as it
appears by what is in evidence, namely, his own statement before the
Committee of the House of Commons, was the agent of Messrs. Martinez &
Co. for the purchase of this vessel, and afterwards the shipment of the
goods, but was no party at all to any proceeding, judicial or
otherwise, which took place in Sierra Leone. Now judicial proceedings,
in which there is a judicial sentence, are no doubt evidence, and may be
very important evidence against the parties to those proceedings; but I
apprehend as that was a proceeding to which Mr. Zulueta was no party,
they are not evidence against him here.
Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_. We need not argue that; I only put the question
in order to trace the vessel.
Mr. Justice _Maule_. At present he says the vessel was sent to Sierra
Leone; that was all, I believe?
Mr. _Kelly_. No, he was going on to talk about the proceedings in Sierra
Leone.
Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_. There were some proceedings there?--She was
condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court there.
Was she sent to England afterwards?--I have seen nothing of her since.
Cross-examined by Mr. _Kelly_.
Though you were for some two or three years cruizing upon the coast of
Africa, it was not till November 1840 you landed at Gallinas--I landed
upon the island there for half an hour previous to that time.
With that exception, I believe you had not landed there before
that?--No.
You have spoken of slave establishments; are there not villages or
towns, whatever names are given to them up the river?--It is necessary
to mention--
You will greatly oblige me if you will answer the question. Is it the
fact, that there are several towns and villages up the river?--It is
necessary for me to explain. If you know nothing of the river Gallinas
that question may imply more than I can answer. The river Gallinas
extends some distance into the interior as I believe: I have been up it
ten or a dozen miles, and I know that there is the native village of
Mera, another of Tardia, and another of Tinda.
That is exactly what I am asking.
Mr. Justice _Maule_. It is a very harmless statement.
Mr. _Kelly_. I was going to ask him how far he had gone up the
river?--At least twelve miles.
As far as you have gone, there were towns?--There were villages.
Was the river navigable further up?--Do you mean further than I went?
Yes.--I cannot say; I should think not from the appearance of it, except
by canoes.
It is navigable for canoes, so that the population of the place can pass
further up?--I cannot say.
Did you ever see canoes higher up?--I could not see them.
If you were ten miles up, you can say if you saw canoes beyond that
distance?--I did not see any. I think from the appearance of the river
as high as I went, it is navigable for canoes; but I never saw any
there.
You were upon this coast for the protection of British commerce and the
prevention of the slave trade?--Yes.
Did not that British commerce consist among other things of the
exportation of the merchandise of Britain to various places on the coast
of Africa?--Certainly.
Do you not know that British merchandises, sometimes in British vessels,
and at other times in other vessels, were exported to a very
considerable extent to various parts of the coast of Africa?--Certainly,
I do.
Now with respect to the Gallinas, do I understand you to say that no
British merchandises were exported there, except for the purposes of the
slave trade?--Any British merchandise exported there from the Gallinas?
No, I said imported into the Gallinas.--That question was not asked me.
Do you not know that British merchandise to a considerable extent was
from time to time exported to the Gallinas in a lawful manner?--I have
known English vessels arrive at the Gallinas and part with a little of
their cargo; but I never knew an instance before the Augusta of a vessel
arriving at the Gallinas consigned to deliver her cargo there.
I ask you, whether you have known of various British vessels, containing
British merchandise, arriving there for a lawful purpose?--I have known
one or two English vessels dispose of a part of their cargoes there; but
I doubt its being for a legal purpose, because I am satisfied there is
no export from the Gallinas but slaves, and therefore I do not think it
could be lawful.
You say you have known them land part of their cargo there?--I have
known them sell part of it.
And you gave as your reason for doubting whether it was for a lawful
purpose, because you are not aware of any merchandise that is exported
from there in return?--I said I should doubt whether it was lawful,
because there was no produce in exchange for it.
Have you never known an instance of ivory and palm-oil being exported
from Gallinas?--Never, and I believe it never was during the time I was
there.
I am asking your experience; I will come to your belief presently. You
say you doubt whether British merchandise has ever been landed there for
lawful purposes; is that so?--I have given my reason for doubting it.
Is it so, that you doubt whether it was ever landed for any purpose?--I
am speaking of the time I was there.
I am asking you about your own experience; of course that must be while
you were there. You say you have never known any British produce landed
that you did not doubt the legality of its purpose; is that so?--Yes;
because there was no produce to be lawful given in exchange; no produce
that I met with.
Allow me to ask you, was there any thing illegal in the landing of
British produce for the use of the native chiefs, or the inhabitants of
those towns and villages you speak of?--You are asking me my opinion?