Federation of Social Action. I presume you know that, do you not?
Mr. O’CONNELL. My impression was that he was head of this
organization.
Mr. VELDE. Will you answer my question? Did you know that he
was head of the Methodist Federation for Social Action at that time?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I really didn’t know whether he was or not.
My impression was that it was somebody by the name of Jack McMichael
that was head of that.
Mr. VELDE. If my memory serves me correctly, it was not until
after that time. It was 1942. Am I right, that Jack McMichael became
head of the Methodist Federation for Social Action?
Mr. O’CONNELL. This was quite a while ago.
Mr. VELDE. What contact did you have with Harry Ward as far as
the American League for Peace and Democracy was concerned?
Mr. O’CONNELL. About the only contact I had with him, I don’t
know whether he personally, but somebody before him, asked me to speak
at a convention or meeting they had out in Pittsburgh in November 1937.
Then there was a banquet as I recall; I think after that time,
something in the early part of 1938, in New York, where he asked me to
speak and, of course, he presided at the banquet in New York. I don’t
know whether it was at Pittsburgh, or whether he resided there, or not,
but I remember his presiding.
Mr. VELDE. Do you have any idea why he asked you to speak
before the meeting?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think because of my position on foreign
policy and particularly on Spain at that time.
Mr. VELDE. Did you know any other leaders in the movement for
the American League for Peace and Democracy?
Mr. O’CONNELL. The only one I recall now is Dr. Ward.
Mr. TAVENNER. Possibly I can refresh his recollection on that.
Wasn’t Earl Browder one of the leaders?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. I really don’t know. If he were,
any connection I had with the league--I mean I had certainly nothing
to do with him. I mean, he wasn’t involved at the meeting that I spoke
to in New York or the meeting I spoke to in Pittsburgh. I never saw
Browder or knew he was involved in it.
Mr. TAVENNER. In the extract from the minutes of the executive
meeting which I read a few moments ago----
Mr. O’CONNELL. Where was this executive meeting?
Mr. TAVENNER. It was held in the home of Mrs. Fowler, on
January 13, 1939. Now, it was suggested at that meeting, according to
what I read, that a person by the name of Mr. Smith would get in touch
with Marcantonio and Jerry O’Connell to get their advice on how to
proceed.
Did anyone confer with you as to how to proceed to get Congressmen to
lend their names as sponsors so as to form an impressive list for the
American League for Peace and Democracy?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; certainly nobody got in touch with me. I
don’t know of any Smith who got in touch with me. I know I never had
anything to do; I never came down here and tried to give Congressmen
teas. I don’t know who this Mrs. Fowler is; I don’t know who Berrall is.
I think they were talking through their hat so far as I was concerned.
I mean, I can’t speak for Marc.
Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall having been a speaker at the
function of American Friends of the Chinese People in June of 1938?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; that was in New York, was it not? A
banquet in New York.
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Or was that a meeting here in Washington? I
think that was just after the Japanese aggression in China.
Mr. TAVENNER. Are you now aware that the American Friends
of the Chinese People has been cited by this committee as a
Communist-front organization?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I am not aware of that even now.
Mr. TAVENNER. It was so cited on March 29, 1944.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I never got copies of the hearings or
deliberations or decisions of the committee. Out there our press,
unless it is specifically related to something out there, rarely
carries any of this material.
Mr. TAVENNER. The November 1948 issue of the Far East
Spotlight reflects that you sent greetings to the Communist, Madame Sun
Yat-Sen under auspices of the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern
Policy. Do you recall having done that?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I really don’t recall having done it, but
I don’t deny that I did. I have tremendous respect for Madame Sun
Yat-Sen. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee whether or not you
were affiliated with the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Affiliated with it?
Mr. TAVENNER. In any way; yes.
Mr. WILLIS. What is the name of that committee?
Mr. TAVENNER. A Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t remember----
Mr. TAVENNER. When you say you probably did join in such a
greeting, can you recall the circumstances under which the Committee
for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy obtained your assistance?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I really don’t recall how it was done
or who contacted me, or who asked me or anything. I am sure that if
somebody asked me to send a greeting to Madame Sun Yat-Sen I might
have done it.
Mr. TAVENNER. The record should show at this point that the
Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy was cited as a Communist
organization by Attorney General Tom Clark on April 27, 1949.
Were you acquainted with Mother Bloor?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; I knew Mother Bloor.
Mr. TAVENNER. What were the circumstances under which you knew
her?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I am pretty sure that she came here to
Washington and I was introduced to her here in Washington when I was in
Congress, or if not, I probably----
Mr. VELDE. Did you know her to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.
Mr. VELDE. How did you know she was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think she said she was and was an avowed
Communist. I don’t think she hid it or anything of that kind.
Mr. WILLIS. What is the name of that person?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Mother Bloor.
Mr. TAVENNER. B-l-o-o-r.
Mr. O’CONNELL. As I recall, she came to see me in connection
with my resolution in behalf of freedom for Tom Mooney. I am pretty
sure that is how I met her.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you send her this greeting on her 75th
birthday:
It affords me great pleasure to add my word of commendation and
praise to Mother Bloor and to wish her well on the occasion of the
celebration in her honor. When the final history of the movement of
labor throughout the world is written, I know that proper tribute
will be paid to her for her militant and unceasing fight for the
betterment of the classes that toil and I am happy and proud to be
one of those who join in paying honor and tribute to her on this
day of memorable celebration. With the sender’s personal regards
and every good wish, I greet her.
Did you send such a greeting?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. When was this supposed to be sent?
Mr. TAVENNER. On her 75th birthday.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I mean, when was that?
Mr. TAVENNER. I am not certain as to the date.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I mean she was a real character. I am trying
to recall. My dad was killed in a strike out in Butte and another
organizer of the miners union was taken and hung at the Milwaukee
trestle there. Whether Mother Bloor came out during that period or not,
I really don’t know.
But she, at least when I was--she was a very old lady.
Mr. TAVENNER. I can give you the date. It is July 18, 1937.
Mr. O’CONNELL. It was her 75th birthday?
Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I can’t recall the wire. I don’t remember
sending it, but I wouldn’t deny that I had greeted her on her 75th
birthday.
Mr. TAVENNER. Was that part of a plan of a group of people to
add to her celebration?
Mr. CONNELL. I mean, I can’t recall any of the facts.
I don’t know who held the celebration, or under what auspices.
Mr. TAVENNER. Let me see if I can refresh your recollection:
It is a fact that there was a celebration committee established to
celebrate the 75th birthday of Mother Bloor, an open Communist in this
country, throughout the width and breadth of the land, and that you
were a member of that celebrating committee? Or, I should correct that
and say that you were a sponsor of that celebration committee?
I have before me a letterhead showing that Congressman Jerry J.
O’Connell was one of a list of sponsors for that celebration.
Mr. CONNELL. I can’t recall the circumstances now, but as far
as Mother Bloor was concerned, I am sure that I would have sent her
some greetings on her 75th birthday, and if I am listed there as a
sponsor--I don’t recall it now, but I don’t deny that I was.
Mr. TAVENNER. I desire to introduce the document in evidence,
and ask that it be marked “O’Connell Exhibit No. 6” for identification
only, and to be made a part of the committee files.
Mr. WILLIS. It is so ordered.
Mr. TAVENNER. The National Federation for Constitutional
Liberties in January 1943 addressed a message to the House of
Representatives critical of the Dies committee and calling for its
abolishment. A number of signatories appear to that letter and among
them appears your name. It appears in this way:
I hereby join in signing the January 1943 message to the House of
Representatives opposing renewal of the Dies committee.
There were a number of signatories, including Jerry O’Connell. Do you
recall that?
Mr. CONNELL. I don’t recall, but I voted against the creation
of the Dies committee in 1938 and I have constantly opposed it all the
time it was in existence.
Mr. TAVENNER. Now, in asking the question I am not critical in
any sense and don’t mean it in any sense, because of your decision to
oppose a congressional committee. That is a right that anyone has.
Mr. CONNELL. Well, I was a Member of Congress and I had a
right to vote against it.
Mr. TAVENNER. Not only as a Member of Congress, but as a
citizen you had that right. I don’t intend it in any way as critical,
but my purpose in asking it is to find out what connection you had with
the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties which put out this
message.
Mr. CONNELL. So far as I can remember they probably sent me
a copy of that message and asked me if I would join in it. And then I
think I was the sponsor of a call to organize or set up the National
Federation for Constitutional Liberties.
Mr. TAVENNER. I think I have already read into the record
the citations by the Attorneys General Clark and Biddle of that
organization. So I will not repeat it.
I asked you this morning about the activity of John Daschbach in
connection with the Civil Rights Congress in the State of Washington.
According to the committee’s information, he was chairman of the
steering committee of that organization. Is that true?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether he was chairman of the
steering committee. I remember he was the director in charge of the
Civil Rights Congress office in Seattle.
Mr. TAVENNER. Didn’t he name you as one of the members of the
steering committee?
Mr. O’CONNELL. If he did, I had no knowledge of it. When did
he name me? When was this done?
Mr. TAVENNER. In October of 1948.
Mr. O’CONNELL. He may have put me on there, but I never served
as a member of the steering committee in the Civil Rights Congress.
Mr. TAVENNER. Why didn’t you?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I just remember I didn’t. In October of
1948 particularly we were in the midst of the 1948 campaign and I was
the executive secretary of the Progressive Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. The campaign would have been over in November;
would it not?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, sir; it would have been, but I mean from
October--October is always involved in politics, October is the month
when the general election campaign is carried on.
He, of his own volition, may have made me a member of the steering
committee, but I certainly don’t remember getting any notification and
I certainly know I didn’t serve on the steering committee.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, you have repeated a number of
times during the course of the testimony your denial of any knowledge
of Communist Party membership on the part of Tom Rabbitt and William
Pennock while you were in the State of Washington.
Now, I have examined the testimony taken at the Canwell hearings--which
occurred in 1948; did they not?
Mr. O’CONNELL. As I remember, there were two hearings out
there. There was one in 1947--I think there was a hearing in 1947, and
one in 1948.
Mr. TAVENNER. The first hearings were conducted from January
27, to February 5 of 1947, and subsequent hearings were, or at least
the report was made in 1948. I am not sure whether the bulk of the
hearings were in 1947 or in 1948.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I think, as I remember, the longer hearings
were in 1947 and then there were some shorter hearings held in 1948.
Mr. TAVENNER. Now, I have examined this testimony and I find
that Louis Budenz identified Tom Rabbitt, as a member of the Communist
Party during the course of that hearing. He was the first witness.
Mr. O’CONNELL. If the committee please, I think Mr. Budenz
at that hearing was asked questions about whether or not I was a
member of the Communist Party and I think the records will show there
that he didn’t definitely say that I was. He said that there was some
discussion about me in Communist Party headquarters, and that I had a
good record in Congress and the Communists thought I was----
Mr. TAVENNER. I will give you an opportunity to explain that a
little later.
Mr. O’CONNELL. Don’t let me forget because I sued Mr. Budenz
about it.
Mr. TAVENNER. I will give you an opportunity to explain that.
Mr. WILLIS. Sued whom?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I sued Mr. Budenz for the statements that he
made.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Ward F. Warren identified Thomas Rabbitt as
a person he knew to be a member of the Communist Party, that he sat in
closed party meetings with Thomas Rabbitt.
Senator James Sullivan identified Thomas Rabbitt as a member of the
Communist Party.
Kathryn Fogg, K-a-t-h-r-y-n, identified Thomas Rabbitt as a member of
the Communist Party, and described fraction meetings which he attended
with her.
Jess Fletcher, who was a well-known member of the Communist Party in
Seattle, identified Thomas Rabbitt as a member of the Communist Party
and stated that he had sat in many Communist Party meetings with him
and that he had attended, that Rabbitt had attended, Communist Party
meetings in his home; that is, in Fletcher’s home.
Nat Honig identified Thomas Rabbitt as a member of the Communist Party.
Harriett Riley identified Thomas Rabbitt as a member of the Communist
Party.
H. C. Armstrong identified Rabbitt as a member of the Communist Party.
Now, you knew at the time of those hearings that Thomas Rabbitt during
those hearings had been identified as a Communist Party member by
numerous individuals; didn’t you?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew that at those hearings those people whom
you have named had said that he was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. When I asked you that question, you told us that
you had never heard that Thomas Rabbitt was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I don’t think I said I ever heard. You
asked if I knew that he was a member of the Communist Party, and I said
no, I didn’t know.
Now, I could go through, and I don’t want to take the time of the
committee, I could tell you like, for instance, Armstrong, Sullivan,
and all of the others, not all of the others, many of those, Kathryn
Fogg, were all members of the State legislature, and they had various
fights and conflicts and so on, and some of them were eliminated from
the legislature, and some weren’t, and so on.
I could go through, Jess Fletcher was in the building-service union of
which Rabbitt also was a member. There was fighting and division and
dissension there.
Now, I think in view of all this, I think it ought to be remembered
I came out in the State of Washington in August of 1944 and many of
these things that have gone on, and so on, I know nothing of, or knew
anything about it.
As a matter of fact, one of the principal jobs I had in the Democratic
Party was to try to smooth out a lot of the fighting and dissension
that had gone on between the so-called conservative and progressive
wings of the Democratic Party out there. It was a job that I was
apparently quite successful in.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend a number of meetings, the purpose
of which was to oppose the holding of the Canwell hearings?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I mean the Progressive Party had meetings
and, of course, to oppose the Canwell committee.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you bitterly opposed to the conduct of
those hearings?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Decidedly so.
Mr. TAVENNER. Was the hearing picketed?
Mr. O’CONNELL. The hearing was picketed; yes.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you in the picket line?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I wasn’t actually in the picket line.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you take part in the picketing?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I was there and I was encouraging the picket
line to be orderly and to make sure that its conduct was correct and so
on.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you arrested in connection with a
disturbance calculated to break up those hearings?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I was arrested for disturbing the peace and
disorderly conduct, but I was acquitted on that charge.
Mr. TAVENNER. So you were keenly interested in the Canwell
hearings?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I was decidedly opposed to the Canwell
committee. As a matter of fact, of the 7 members of the committee, I
think we eliminated 6 of them in the following elections.
Mr. TAVENNER. You knew very well that Tom Rabbitt had been
identified over and over again in the course of those hearings as a
member of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I, of course, was not inside the meetings. I
mean, I didn’t hear a lot of the testimony.
Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean to tell us that you didn’t know that
Tom Rabbitt had been identified as a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew, for instance, in the press and the
press reports, and from information given to me that various people in
there had said that Rabbitt and others were members of the Communist
Party.
Mr. TAVENNER. Then we cannot rely on your statement of this
morning and yesterday when I asked you whether or not you knew that Tom
Rabbitt, or had heard that Tom Rabbitt was a member of the Communist
Party when you were dealing with him in the pension union and in the
work of the Progressive Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Now, I said, and if my testimony is that I had
not heard, I want to change it, but I said I did not know of my own
knowledge and my testimony is that I did not know of my own knowledge
and even today I do not know of my knowledge that Rabbitt is a member
of the Communist Party.
As I understand it, he has not admitted that he is. I think according
to your report he refused to testify and invoked the privilege of the
fifth amendment as far as he was concerned.
Mr. TAVENNER. Didn’t almost the same witnesses identify
William Pennock as a Communist Party member during those same hearings?
Mr. O’CONNELL. That is correct.
Mr. TAVENNER. So what is true with regard to Mr. Rabbitt, is
true with regard to Mr. Pennock?
Mr. O’CONNELL. My testimony is that I didn’t know of my own
knowledge that they were members of the Communist Party.
Mr. VELDE. You stated you did have a suspicion that they were
members of the Communist Party at the time you were dealing with them
in the pension union. Now, will you tell this committee upon what you
based that suspicion?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Largely, I was decidedly surprised when I
heard the testimony of many of the people who testified in the Canwell
hearings. I was surprised by Kathryn Fogg who, for instance, was a
Democratic leader in South King County whom I knew real well. I didn’t
dream she was a member of the Communist Party or had been one. When she
came and testified that she had been a member of the Communist Party
and had met in meetings I was certainly surprised.
And H. C. Armstrong----
Mr. VELDE. When did you first suspect that Rabbitt and Pennock
were members of the Communist Party?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, the first suspicion that I had was
actually around the period of time of those hearings out there. Up to
that time it had been my job as executive secretary of the Democratic
Party, I had to cover the whole State of Washington. I went around on
tours and trips and speaking schedules and so on, and my contact with
Rabbitt and Pennock largely during the first 2 years I was out there,
1945 and 1946, really was when I would come in to talk to a meeting of
the King County Democratic Central Committee that they were sitting on
as delegates, Democratic delegates from the 35th Legislative District.
Mr. VELDE. Yet they were district committee members of the
Communist Party in the State of Washington.
Mr. O’CONNELL. That I do not know.
Mr. VELDE. It was fairly well known among politicians at least
that they were; is that not true?
Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I don’t think so because--of course, I was
completely dependent upon information from Democratic Party leaders out
there who had been active in the Democratic Party for a long time. For
instance, Rabbitt and Pennock were on various committees all through
the Democratic Party and were actually, of course, members of the
legislature, 1 in the senate and 1 in the house.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were they working with the Progressive Party
after that?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, but, my position as far as Rabbitt and
Pennock--today it is easy to go back 5 and 6 years and the developments
that have gone on and the exposures that have been made and so on, have
been much greater in the past than they were then. It was not my job to
determine whether Rabbitt or Pennock was a Communist.
Mr. VELDE. We acknowledge that, of course.
Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as the Democratic Party was concerned,
we had certain platforms, certain programs.
Mr. VELDE. But it is difficult for me to believe in your
associations, the various associations you had with them, that you did
not know that they were members of the Communist Party. I want to say
that with all respect to you as a former Member of Congress.
Mr. O’CONNELL. I didn’t like Rabbitt; I had very little to do
with Rabbitt. I fired him as a Progressive Party staff man in about May
of 1948.
My first connection with him, where I was close to what he was like and
what he did and so on, all that was from about the latter part of March
1948 down until May and in May of 1948 I removed him from the staff of
the Progressive Party. I didn’t really like him.
Now, up until Bill Pennock, actually I had talked with Bill Pennock
many times and he was much more, I would say, a real Democrat. He was
in the Democratic Party conclaves; in their meetings and so on, and,
of course, a much more personable fellow and all that, but until Bill
Pennock actually announced, and regardless of this testimony that is
there, and I talked with Bill Pennock after this testimony was given,
and he vociferously denied that he issued statements in the papers and
in the press and everything and pension union statements were made, up
to the minute Bill Pennock made an open statement just before he was
going on trial in the Smith Act cases in 1953 or 1954, whenever they
were out there, I certainly had some real, real doubt whether Bill
Pennock was a member of the Communist Party.
And I think you will find that pretty generally out there, if you went
out and talked to ordinary people out there, who were working in the
Democratic Party, chairmen and State committeemen and so on, and all of
that kind.
Mr. VELDE. Well, it is entirely possible.
Mr. O’CONNELL. For instance, Governor Wallgren, who had been
in the Congress for 10 years, and had been United States Senator for
about 6 years, Governor Wallgren appointed Pennock to a position as
assistant superintendent of institutions out there.
Mr. TAVENNER. However, that wasn’t after 1948.
Mr. O’CONNELL. No, that was in 1945.
Mr. VELDE. At that time, how would you determine in your own
mind whether or not a person was a member of the Communist Party? What
standards would you use? I am talking about the Wallace campaign.
Mr. O’CONNELL. About which campaign?
Mr. VELDE. The Progressive campaign with Wallace. What
standards would you use to determine whether or not a man was a
Communist?
Mr. O’CONNELL. Taking Rabbitt specifically, the reason I
removed him as a member of the staff in the Progressive Party in
1948, in 1948 the Progressive Party was under attack, particularly
nationally, as being Communist controlled and Communist dominated and
being a Red party and so on, and we had, particularly in South King
County, an organizer by the name of Belden who was a member of various
veterans’ groups out there.