Mr. O’CONNELL. You are really getting into ancient history. My

best recollection was that we were in Spain, I would say sometime in

the month of October 1938 or maybe the latter part of October or early

November 1938, somewhere in that period.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long were you there?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I would say about 3 weeks.

Mr. TAVENNER. As part of your experience there, did you

and Mr. Bernard take part in the review of the American Brigade,

Anglo-American Brigade, on the occasion of the celebration of the

anniversary of the Russian Revolution? Do you recall reviewing the

troops?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I remember reviewing the troops but not

in connection with any celebration of the Russian Revolution. As

I remember, the only troops we reviewed were troops that came up

when there was a change of command. The command of the brigade was

to be taken over by somebody, I can’t remember who they were now,

but certainly not in connection with any celebration of the Soviet

Revolution. At least I certainly was not informed that that was the

case. I had been active, while I was a Member of Congress, before I

went to Spain I was very decidedly and very specifically on the side

of the Spanish Republic, I did everything I could to promote American

policy to help and to aid the Spanish Loyalists. They were the legally

elected government of Spain, they were being attacked by Hitler and

Mussolini as I saw it, and in my opinion it was the beginning, in fact

the first battlefield of World War II.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, who invited

you and the circumstances under which you made the trip?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, earlier in that year a group of

Congressmen in the 75th Congress, we had a group of Congressmen known

as the liberal bloc of Congress headed by Maury Maverick of Texas. The

newspapers described us as all fairly young. I was only 27 at the time.

We were described as Young Turks and out of that liberal bloc a group

of us, 5 or 6 or maybe 4 or 5, went to see Secretary of State Cordell

Hull in connection with the Spanish situation and also legislation

which was pending with reference to invoking the Neutrality Act as it

existed at that time against Germany and Italy for their intervention

in Spain, and Mr. Hull told us as far as this Government was concerned

there was actually no evidence of Spanish and German intervention or I

should say German and Italian intervention.

I think I later, along with Congressman Coffee and Congressman Bernard

and others, talked with David Niles, who was then executive assistant

to President Roosevelt in connection with the situation. It was then

suggested, I think just about the time Congress was adjourning, Mrs.

O’Connell and I had been married on the 2d of January 1937, and we had

had no honeymoon and were going to Europe.

My mother and father were both born in Ireland and I had always wanted

to go there and we did go to Ireland, to England, France, and so on,

had a reception at the Spanish Embassy, I would say probably about a

month before adjournment or shortly before adjournment, Ambassador de

Los Rios invited not only myself but Congressman Bernard and several

other Congressmen to go to Spain and investigate what the situation was

there.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was he the person who extended the invitation to

go to Spain?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. He was the one. We of course took

care of our own arrangements here, got our passport from the State

Department--I think we were issued special passports by the State

Department. Our visas were procured.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was any contribution made to you for the

expenses of this trip for you and your wife, either for transportation

or otherwise?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. We paid our own passage. I think we went

over on the _Queen Mary_ and came back on the _Normandy_. We paid all

of our hotel expenses and we traveled by plane from Le Bourget to

Croydon and paid for those. I spent about a month in Ireland where my

folks were born and all those expenses were paid by me and in Spain we

were the guests of the Spanish Republic and there were no expenses for

hotel and transportation in Spain itself.

Our entry into Spain was expedited by the American Embassy in Paris.

I think Robert Murphy was then Minister Plenipotentiary at the time

and Acting Ambassador and he had Col. Steven Fuquay, who was military

attaché of the American Embassy in Spain to meet us at the airport at

Valencia.

Mr. TAVENNER. After your return to this country, did you then

become affiliated with organizations which have since been designated

as front organizations relating to the Spanish problem?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I don’t know whether you could define it

as affiliated--I made speeches before many groups that were involved in

the fighting in behalf of the Spanish Republic.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you become one of the sponsors of the

Medical Bureau and North American Committee To Aid Spanish Democracy?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Right now I don’t remember whether I did, but I

wouldn’t be a bit surprised. I am sure I did everything I could----

Mr. TAVENNER. I find your name on the letterhead of that

organization on July 6, 1938. Does that refresh your recollection?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I haven’t seen it but if I am on there--I want

to say I did everything I could to save the Spanish Republic. I felt

very intensely about it. I am proud of what I did. I feel the same way

about it today as I did then.

I think the position that I took as far as history was concerned

was later in the establishment of the United Nations and disbarment

of Franco Spain from the United Nations at least vindication of the

position that I had taken. But in July of 1938 certainly that committee

or that organization whose letterhead you say I am a sponsor on was not

listed as a subversive organization or so described by anyone.

Mr. TAVENNER. An examination of the letterhead of American

Relief Ship for Spain bearing date of September 3, 1938, reflects you

as one of the sponsors of this organization. Do you recall that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t recall it but I am sure it is true. As

I said, I worked every way I knew how for defeat of Franco and for the

saving of the Spanish Republic.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you appear on a program of the Fourth

National Congress of the American League for Peace and Democracy in

Pittsburgh in November 1937?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. November 26 to 28, 1937.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I remember I missed the Army-Navy game. It

rained and I was anxious to get to it. I remember I spoke at that

meeting.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was that in behalf of the Loyalist cause?

Mr. O’CONNELL. It was in connection with Loyalist Spain. I

think there was a resolution pending in the Congress to invoke the

Neutrality Act against Germany and Italy for intervention and I think

also removal of the embargo which had been placed against Spain.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you from time to time appear before various

meetings of the Veterans of the Lincoln Brigade, and speak on the

subject of the Spanish cause?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t remember how many times. My present

recollection of that, which, of course, is some 17 or 18 years ago, is

that I made 1 or 2 speeches at meetings of the Friends of the Abraham

Lincoln Brigade.

Mr. TAVENNER. In the course of the making of those speeches

did you become acquainted with Steve Nelson?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, sir; I never ever met Steve Nelson; have

never met Steve Nelson to this day.

Mr. TAVENNER. I notice in the Daily Worker issue of July 8,

1937, that you were listed to speak along with Earl Browder and others

on July 19. This was prior to your trip to Spain?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. As I remember from the date that was

the first anniversary of the beginning of the Spanish War and it was

a meeting, as I remember, in Madison Square Garden and the speakers

included--I know Fiorello LaGuardia spoke there. I know Norman Thomas,

the candidate for the Socialist Party spoke there; a Republican

Representative in Congress also spoke there. I spoke as a Democrat.

Mr. SCHERER. Who was the Representative?

Mr. O’CONNELL. If I remember, he was from one of the New York

districts, I am not too sure which.

Mr. SCHERER. Do you remember his name?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I really don’t. The purpose of the meeting as

it was outlined was to have a representative of all of the political

parties speak at the meeting. Did Marcantonio speak there?

Mr. TAVENNER. He is listed as one of those.

Mr. O’CONNELL. At that time I am pretty sure Marc was a

Republican Representative or had been a Republican Representative.

Mr. SCHERER. Marcantonio was a Republican Representative?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; he was. He came to Congress as a

Republican Representative.

Mr. SCHERER. I understand how that happened. Was he the one

you are referring to or was it somebody else?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am not sure. I know there was a

representative of every political party that spoke there on the Spanish

situation and in favor of the Spanish Republic.

Mr. SCHERER. I understand that, but might it have been

Marcantonio you were referring to?

Mr. O’CONNELL. My remembrance is it was somebody else, but I

don’t want to--I am trying to think. As a matter of fact, he was from

one of the silk-stocking districts of New York, as I remember.

Mr. WILLIS. We will adjourn until 2 o’clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p. m. the committee was recessed, to reconvene at

2 p. m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION, JUNE 2, 1955

The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p. m.

Mr. WILLIS. The subcommittee will come to order.

Because of the pressure of legislative work, as we have gone along in

these hearings it has been necessary to constitute and reconstitute the

subcommittee.

Mr. Scherer could not be here this afternoon and the chairman has now

appointed a subcommittee of my colleagues, Mr. Velde, and Mr. Doyle,

and myself as chairman.

In view of the reconstitution of the subcommittee we will reswear the

witness.

Do you solemnly swear that you will testify according to the truth, the

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, before this subcommittee?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I do.

Mr. WILLIS. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.

TESTIMONY OF JEREMIAH JOSEPH O’CONNELL--Resumed

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, were you a member of the national

committee of the International Labor Defense in 1940?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know----

Mr. TAVENNER. The Daily Worker of May 3, 1938, reports that

Jeremiah O’Connell was a speaker at a function of the International

Labor Defense.

According to Equal Justice, page 4, of the November 1938 issue,

Jeremiah O’Connell was one of the sponsors of the Christmas drive of

that organization.

According to the May 1939 issue of Equal Justice, Jeremiah O’Connell

was one of those who sent congratulations to the southern California

district year book 1938 of the International Labor Defense.

According to a leaflet the summer milk fund drive, Hotel Pennsylvania,

New York City, of June 13, 1940, you were listed as a member of that

committee of the International Labor Defense.

Now, does that information refresh your recollection?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. I mean I can’t--I don’t remember ever being

elected to the international committee of the International Labor

Defense, or selected for it.

I probably, as a Congressman, like on the milk fund, summer milk fund

and Christmas fund, and so on, at that time the International Labor

Defense used to send, I think Christmas presents to labor prisoners.

During my term in Congress I was particularly active in fighting for

the freedom of Tom Mooney. My Dad had been in the miner’s union, a

member and executive for that particular period; he has always been

interested. When I came here I introduced a resolution in the Congress

asking for the freedom of Tom Mooney and for a pardon for him.

I think my best recollection is as far as the International Labor

Defense is concerned that the matters I sponsored were around prisoners

like Tom Mooney.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you familiar with the fact that it has been

cited as a Communist front organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I shouldn’t say that I actually know that it

has been cited, or when it was cited.

Mr. TAVENNER. Attorney General Tom Clark cited it as a

subversive and Communist organization on June 1, 1948, and again on

September 22, 1948.

Mr. O’CONNELL. It wasn’t even in existence then.

Mr. TAVENNER. Probably not. Attorney General Francis Biddle,

on September 24, 1942, cited it as a legal arm of the Communist Party.

This committee on January 3, 1939, again on January 3, 1940; on

June 25, 1942; and on March 29, 1944, cited it. In this committee’s

citation it was referred to as the American section of the MOPR

Red International of Labor Defense, often referred to as the Red

International Aid.

It was subsequently combined with the National Federation of

Constitutional Liberties to form the Civil Rights Congress.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. O’Connell, as a former Member of Congress,

naturally you were interested in the citations of the Un-American

Activities Committee and the citation of the Attorneys General.

Surely you must have some recollection that these organizations were

subversive and cited as subversive by duly constituted bodies?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Actually, I mean as far as the International

Labor Defense is concerned, I think the latest, according to that

record, that I was involved is sometime in 1940. I think its earliest

citation was by this committee in 1939.

Then the Attorney General’s citations were many years after that when

it was actually in existence.

Mr. TAVENNER. 1942?

Mr. O’CONNELL. 1942.

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir; you said many years later; 1942 is the

date that the Attorney General first cited.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I thought you said 1948.

Mr. TAVENNER. There was one in 1948.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. O’Connell, I understood you to say that you

didn’t know that the International Labor Defense was a subversive

organization or cited as a subversive organization.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I actually didn’t know at the time I was

involved there. I, for instance, know now that the International Labor

Defense has been, and I have known it for some time in the past few

years since it was cited.

Mr. VELDE. How long have you known it has been cited?

Mr. O’CONNELL. My best recollection would be that I have

probably known since 1945, somewhere in there; maybe a little earlier,

but certainly at this time I didn’t know it.

For instance, I am out in the State of Montana. A lot of this material

is not covered by the press in Montana, and it does not have any

particular interest, and, of course, I was not involved; I was no

longer a Member of Congress at that time.

I had a sincere desire, I actually believed, and felt that Tom Mooney

had been framed, and I felt that he ought to be released from prison. I

worked for his freedom.

I think, in one instance, as far as the International Labor Defense is

concerned, I was going into Jersey City to speak against Mayor Frank

Hague. The meeting that I was speaking at apparently was sponsored by

Norman Thomas’ Socialist Party, or they were the ones that had arranged

it, and members of the International Labor Defense requested me not to

speak, but I went there and spoke.

At that time, to my best recollection, Mike Quill was the New York

labor leader and still is. He was prevailing upon me not to go in there

and speak, but I did go into Jersey City and tried to speak there. I

felt that Frank Hague was denying civil liberties and particularly

freedom of speech.

Mr. VELDE. But at that time did you not realize that the

International Labor Defense had been cited by your Government as being

subversive?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Congressman, at that time I was 27, 28 years

old. My political experience, particularly as far as Socialists were

concerned, as far as Communists were concerned, and all of that, I had

no training or study in Marxism-Leninism.

As a matter of fact, I had very little knowledge of what the

differences were, what their division of opinion was, or anything of

the kind.

My feeling was that both of them were for socialism and I didn’t know

what their particular division was.

Mr. VELDE. What I am getting at is this: As a Member of

Congress, following your defeat as a Member of Congress, you certainly

were interested in the committees of Congress, you certainly were

interested in what the Attorney General of the United States was doing.

It seems to me that you should have been cognizant of the fact that the

International Labor Defense was cited as a subversive organization.

Mr. O’CONNELL. This is the first time today--no, for instance,

this committee had cited the International Labor Defense at that

particular date. Now, I learned later----

Mr. VELDE. Now, Mr. O’Connell, there have been a lot of

witnesses appear before this committee with a lot less intelligence

than you, with a lot less knowledge of political activities of our

Government, and, of course, we realize that there were a lot of those

people who became involved in the Communist Party and the Communist

Party manipulations.

But I just cannot understand how you, as a Member of Congress, would

not be cognizant of the fact that the International Labor Defense was

cited as a subversive organization.

I don’t question whether you believed it was, or was not; or whether

you believed that the Attorney General or this committee was right.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I said that I later knew, but at the particular

time involved here, Congressman, it had not been, in my first

connection with it, had not been cited by the committee as such.

I can’t remember this milk fund in 1940, or whatever it was, but I

presume it was to raise funds to provide milk for prisoners, labor

prisoners, children of labor prisoners, and so on. I don’t remember

specifically about----

Now, as far as my particular situation was concerned, the way I felt

about these things, I mean for instance whether it was Mooney or

whoever it might have been, I made up my mind so far as my judgment

was concerned, what I thought was right and what I thought was wrong.

Mr. VELDE. Certainly you have that privilege, as we all do.

Mr. O’CONNELL. And I worked to accomplish what I thought was

right.

Mr. VELDE. I am not questioning your privilege, your right, to

make up your own mind. I am questioning the facts, your statement that

you did not know.

Mr. O’CONNELL. About the best way to explain it to you, I came

out of a district, I was born and raised in Butte. Butte is a mining

town----

Mr. VELDE. But you had been to Washington, D. C. Even before

you ran for Congress you had been here.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, I had gone to school here, yes.

In that particular day when I went to school here, as I remember, there

wasn’t any great discussion about Communists or Socialists or anything

of that kind. When I went to school here in that day, I was in the----

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, I do not see that this argument is

getting us anywhere.

Mr. O’CONNELL. The biggest thing of interest at that time was

Al Smith and Governor Ritchie and other people’s nominations for the

Presidency.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, were you a member of the national

committee of the American League for Peace and Democracy in 1939?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether I was in 1939, but maybe

in 1938 or 1937, and possibly 1939 I was a member of the American

League for Peace and Democracy.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long were you a member that organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I really wouldn’t know. Actually after I

went back to Montana, outside of some communication and sponsorship,

something of that kind, I had very little connection. As I remember,

the League didn’t last; I mean it didn’t last very long.

Mr. TAVENNER. While you were a member of its national

committee, did you take part as a speaker in various functions of the

American League for Peace and Democracy?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think I can remember about two speeches.

I made a speech in Pittsburgh that you asked me about, and I made a

speech in New York, at a banquet in New York.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you remain a member of the national

committee of the American League for Peace and Democracy until its

dissolution?

Mr. O’CONNELL. When did it dissolve?

Mr. TAVENNER. In 1941.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I couldn’t say whether I remained a

member all of that time. I don’t know.

Mr. TAVENNER. During the course of the hearing before this

committee the chairman read into the record minutes of an executive

committee meeting of the American League for Peace and Democracy, held

on January 23, 1939. I quote from what the chairman read into the

record:

In connection with the legislative program it says: “Get lists of

friendly Congressmen and have teas and luncheons for them.”

A further idea of how they proceed is shown in the minutes of

January 13, 1939, of the meeting held at the home of Mrs. Fowler,

as follows:

“It was suggested that we make an attempt to get Congressmen to

join the league. Mr. Smith will arrange for a luncheon meeting

with Marcantonio and Jerry O’Connell to get their views on how to

proceed. The idea is to make Congressmen part of an impressive list

of sponsors.”

and from the same minutes----

“Mr. Berrall announced a legislative office will be established

in Washington over the weekend with Jerry O’Connell doing the

congressional work and two assistants at the office.”

Will you explain what your activity was among Congressmen to solicit

membership in the American League for Peace and Democracy?

Mr. O’CONNELL. When was this supposed to be?

Mr. TAVENNER. The minutes of the executive meeting were

January 13, 1939.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I was no longer a Member of Congress in 1939.

Mr. TAVENNER. I didn’t say that you were.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Then I was supposed to head some kind of office

here?

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Berrall announced that a legislative office

will be established in Washington----

Mr. O’CONNELL. What is this Mr. Berrall? Who is he?

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you know him?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I don’t know him.

Mr. TAVENNER (reading):

Mr. Berrall announced that a legislative office will be established

in Washington over the weekend with Jerry O’Connell doing the

congressional work and two assistants at the office.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I am concerned he is talking out

of thin air. I had nothing to do with any office. I wasn’t in a

legislative office down here for the American League for Peace and

Democracy.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where were you in January 1939?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, my best recollection would be that in

January 1939 I was back in the State of Montana. After I was defeated

for Congress I started a weekly newspaper called Jerry O’Connell’s

Montana Liberal.

I am pretty sure I was back there getting that paper underway and

getting it published and so on, trying to get subscriptions. I just

think he is talking out of complete thin air because I certainly never

came down here and did any kind of work like that, or talked to any

Congressmen or had teas for them or anything.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall when you left Washington at the

end of the Congress in which you served?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t think after my defeat that I came back

here at all. I was defeated, of course, in November 1938. I think

my secretary came back and cleaned up what we had in the office and

brought it back.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to

show that the American League for Peace and Democracy was cited

as subversive and Communist by Attorney General Francis Biddle on

September 24, 1942, in the following language:

Established in the United States in 1937 as successor to the

American League against War and Fascism in an effort to create

public sentiment on behalf of the foreign policy adapted to the

interest of the Soviet Union. The American League for Peace and

Democracy was designed to conceal Communist control in accordance

with the new tactics of the Communist International.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire a little further on

that?

Mr. WILLIS. Certainly.

Mr. VELDE. Were you acquainted with any of the leaders of the

movement of the American League for Peace and Democracy?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, about the only one I can remember, that

stands out in my mind, was Dr. Harry F. Ward.

Mr. VELDE. Do you know Dr. Harry F. Ward?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew him at that time.

Mr. VELDE. You still know him, do you not?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I think if he walked in the room I don’t

know whether I would recognize him. I would say it has probably been 10

or almost 15 years.

Investigation of Communist activities in Seattle, Wash., area. Hearings, Part 3 · 第 9 / 13 段