Mr. WALL. Nonnie. Mrs. McKenna.
Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. McKenna did not refer to any prior call to you?
Mr. WALL. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know how Mr. Ruby got your telephone number in
Galveston?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. I left my telephone number where I would be in
Galveston with the operator in Dallas, which I do every time I go out
of town so they will know how to contact me.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your purpose in leaving your telephone number in
that manner?
Mr. WALL. Well, I get quite a few calls and the main reason I left
it was because Mr. Anderson, who was the manger of the hotel, hadn’t
decided what day to come back to work, Monday or Tuesday, therefore, I
needed to know so, therefore, I left the telephone number.
Mr. SPECTER. After you completed your telephone conversation with Jack
Ruby on that Saturday night, November 23, what did you do next?
Mr. WALL. As far as I can remember I had a sandwich and visited with
the folks for about 45 minutes, then went to bed because I was kind of
tired.
Mr. SPECTER. At what time did you awaken on Sunday morning, November 24?
Mr. WALL. I don’t know the precise time. I do know it was about—it
couldn’t have been more than 10 minutes before Jack shot Oswald because
I had just gotten up and walked in the bedroom and was watching it in
the folks’ bedroom, so whatever time Jack shot Oswald I was only up 10
minutes beforehand.
Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you observe on the television
screen at that time?
Mr. WALL. Nothing at all to relate it was Jack.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you know it was Jack at the time you saw the shooting
of Oswald?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What part of the man did you see on the television screen?
Mr. WALL. It all happened so quick I didn’t see anything except I
understood Jack had been shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Understood who had been shot?
Mr. WALL. I’m sorry, that Oswald had been shot and that—I watched the
interview with the policeman saying he knew who it was but could not
say publicly who it was. We waited around and, I would say, within a
matter of 15 minutes they announced who it was. It seems to me that
quick.
Mr. SPECTER. And who did they announce that it was?
Mr. WALL. Jack Ruby, owner of a stripper club called the Carousel.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your reaction, if any, to that?
Mr. WALL. Well, it was a shock. That is all I can say. It was a real
shock.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do for the balance of that Sunday afternoon?
Mr. WALL. Well, I would say within 30 minutes to an hour we received
a call from the Washington Post representative who, I believe, was in
Dallas at the time.
Mr. SPECTER. How did that representative of the Washington Post happen
to call you?
Mr. WALL. I have no idea.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what his name was?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you say to him, if anything?
Mr. WALL. Well, I was still in shock. I told him that I had talked to
Jack over the telephone and he asked what we had said and I told him
and he said: “Well, can you tell me a little about him?” And I was at
that time having an argument with Mr. Peterson on what to do, you know,
keep your mouth shut, or, you know, say what you had to say.
Mr. SPECTER. What was Mr. Peterson’s view?
Mr. WALL. He said to keep my mouth shut, he did not want to get
involved in any way, and that the right people would come to us and for
us not to say anything so——
Mr. SPECTER. What was your view about that subject?
Mr. WALL. Well, I didn’t know. I don’t know. I can’t remember. I would
say mine was the same way. I was kind of scared, to be honest.
Mr. SPECTER. Why were you scared?
Mr. WALL. Just when people start calling you long distance you get
seared. You don’t want to get involved in anything, particularly if you
didn’t have anything to do with it. Then the next telephone call we
got was from Dick Hitt, who is a man on the—a columnist for the Dallas
Times Herald who knew I was a very close friend.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you known Mr. Hitt before that telephone call?
Mr. WALL. Oh, yes; ever since I have been in Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. What did Mr. Hitt say to you?
Mr. WALL. He wanted to know about—he wanted me to talk to his editor
or someone about Jack, to find out what kind of a person he was and
everything.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to his editor?
Mr. WALL. We did but very coldly. Joe talked to the editor.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to him?
Mr. WALL. I talked to Dick Hitt but whenever they called back the man
called back and said: “Dick Hitt said for me to call you.” Joe got on
the phone and said: “No, I don’t know anything.” I have a correction to
make. The first call that we received was from the Dallas Morning News.
The second call we got was from the Washington Post and the last call
we got was from Dick Hitt.
Mr. SPECTER. Who called you from the Dallas Morning News?
Mr. WALL. I would say right now as far as I can remember it was Hugh
Ainsworth because he also knew I was a very good friend of Jack’s.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the content of the conversation between you and
Mr. Ainsworth?
Mr. WALL. The conversation was that Jack had called me and—Hugh and
I were good speaking friends. Not close friends, but we had talked a
great deal—of course, this being the first person I had talked to that
had also known Jack, we were just in a conversation. I told him: “Yes,
I had received a call,” you know, I was sort of outspoken in discussing
it with Hugh. Joe got kind of angry and said we should not meddle in
any way at all and so the Washington Post called after that and we were
sort of cool and when Dick Hitt called we said we knew nothing.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you receive any other telephone calls?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls on that Sunday?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you call?
Mr. WALL. I called Nancy Austin, who is a performer in our show, to
find out how to get hold of Phil Burleson.
Mr. SPECTER. Who was Phil Burleson?
Mr. WALL. He was my attorney.
Mr. SPECTER. How long had he been your attorney?
Mr. WALL. Since I arrived in Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. And what was the purpose of your wanting to get Mr.
Burleson’s telephone number?
Mr. WALL. Well, Phil also knew Jack and I wanted to see if he was going
to represent Jack or if he could or wanted to or to see if he could get
in to see Jack to see what was going on.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did you do that?
Mr. WALL. Well, as I say, I was in shock. I was upset because I liked
Jack very much. He has been a very good friend of ours even with our
ups and downs. Just to make sure everything was all right. To find out
what was going on.
Mr. SPECTER. Had anybody requested you to contact an attorney on behalf
of Jack Ruby?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. That thought came to you on your own initiative?
Mr. WALL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you discuss it with Mr. Peterson?
Mr. WALL. Yes; I think so.
Mr. SPECTER. What did Mr. Peterson say about that telephone call?
Mr. WALL. It was fine with him. The main thing that Joe objected to,
he did not want to be in print about saying anything or doing anything
that would jeopardize our position at the Adolphus Hotel.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you know that Jack Ruby had other attorneys who
represented him regularly?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he have any other attorney, to your knowledge?
Mr. WALL. I have never known him to have any attorney at all.
Mr. SPECTER. That is prior to the time of the shooting of Oswald?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any other telephone calls on that Sunday?
Mr. WALL. Well, any other phone calls I would have made would have been
to cast members.
Mr. SPECTER. For what purpose?
Mr. WALL. To tell them that we still didn’t know we were going to do
the show or anything about it, just be prepared to come in Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday, whenever they were notified.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall any other specific calls you made on that
Sunday, November 24?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do the balance of the day?
Mr. WALL. Watched television.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you go to sleep that night?
Mr. WALL. Late. It was very late.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you have supper?
Mr. WALL. In the house.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you leave the house at all that Sunday?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I didn’t go out at all.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arise on the following Monday?
Mr. WALL. I would say Monday night. I really don’t, to be honest
with you, I don’t know what time I arrived back. I don’t know if we
performed Monday or Tuesday. From all recollection it was Tuesday we
performed. I don’t know. It could have been Tuesday afternoon that we
got back.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you go back to Dallas?
Mr. WALL. I don’t remember, sir, now what day it was we left.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you seen Jack Ruby after the shooting of Oswald?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you see him?
Mr. WALL. It was the first Saturday or the second Saturday after the
assassination I was in the hotel room watching the football game and it
was in the afternoon and Sheriff Bill Decker called me and said that
Jack was very depressed and needed some cheering up and wanted to know
if I would come down, so I went down.
Mr. SPECTER. How long after Sheriff Decker’s call did you arrive at the
jail?
Mr. WALL. I would say between half an hour and 45 minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you stay at the jail?
Mr. WALL. I would say about 20 minutes, maybe.
Mr. SPECTER. State as specifically as you can recollect the nature of
your conversation with Jack Ruby indicating what he said to you and
what you said to him?
Mr. WALL. Well, I wasn’t the only person there. There were two other
people there, one man I don’t know—I have seen him around before.
The other man was, I’m sure you have it in your records, he was the
partner of Jack in the club who tried to run it after Jack had shot
Oswald. I can’t think of the man’s name.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall the first name of either of those men?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I don’t. I know them by face.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there anyone else present besides the four of you?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; except for the two policemen that were inside the
tank where Jack was. He was inside the tank.
Mr. SPECTER. What conversation ensued while you were present with Mr.
Ruby?
Mr. WALL. Well, the main thing Jack brought out was he thought himself
correct in shooting Oswald.
Mr. SPECTER. For what reason?
Mr. WALL. A far as I can remember he didn’t give a reason. He just
said, you know. “I was right in doing it.”
Mr. SPECTER. Did any one disagree with him?
Mr. WALL. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Why not?
Mr. WALL. Well, they just didn’t say anything against him. I can’t
remember the incident too well. I do know that Jack was very upset and
the two men, on the outside, didn’t argue with him at all in anything
that he said, and they said they wouldn’t. I remember them making the
comment to each other they weren’t going to upset him, and whatever
he said they would just nod yes to and would agree with; they weren’t
going to get him upset.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you say to Jack, if anything?
Mr. WALL. I talked to him about Phil.
Mr. SPECTER. Phil who?
Mr. WALL. Burleson. “I was wondering if Phil came up to see you,” and,
“I asked him to come up,” and “If you can get him to represent you as
one of the attorneys,” and everything. “I think it would be very good
for you since he was at one time the assistant district attorney.” I
said, “I think he would do a good job for you. He is very honest, very
aboveboard,” and Jack said, “Yes, he came to see me and I think he
would do well and I would like to use him if I can.” Then I asked him
how they were treating him in jail and he said how nice they were to
him and he asked me what I was doing. I told him I was watching the
football game and Sheriff Decker said I could come down and see him.
Then he asked me specifically did I want to get involved in the case in
any way, or something like that, and I told him under the circumstances
please don’t ever use our name or anything. It’s not that I didn’t like
him. It was just that it might ruin our careers that we worked very
hard for. He gave me his word he would never use us, say anything about
us in any publication or anything. This was very true. While we were in
Houston he needed money and wrote an article for a series of newspapers
and he stated in the article, toward the end he made a call to Joe
Feder and Beck Wald, which I thought was very nice of him and all the
other circumstances in the article that I could see he used the names
of the people.
Mr. SPECTER. Joe Feder was really Joe Peterson?
Mr. WALL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And Beck Wald was really you?
Mr. WALL. Me; yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you recollect anything more about the conversation
that you had at the jail on the Saturday you refer to?
Mr. WALL. No, sir. It was the first time I had seen him since the
assassination and it was just, you know, kind of strange meeting. There
wasn’t any fun in it at all, you know, like laughs. Sheriff Decker told
me he wanted to be cheered up. It was not like that at all. It was a
very sad thing.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever seen Jack Ruby since?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I have gotten a few letters from Jack.
Mr. SPECTER. How many?
Mr. WALL. I would say about three.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did he write to you?
Mr. WALL. From the jail.
Mr. SPECTER. And where were you when you received those letters?
Mr. WALL. In—I think I received two in Dallas and I would say one in
Houston, and they were very simple letters, just how he was feeling
and, you know, what he was doing.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you respond?
Mr. WALL. Yes; I wrote him back and told him what we were doing and how
we were doing and I hoped he was well.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did you write to him?
Mr. WALL. Maybe three or four times. I don’t know. I do remember
another thing we discussed while he was in the jail. He said he was
writing—I remember two things—he was writing down his memoirs and
wanted to do it into a story form and would I be interested in doing it
for him. I told him I would see. And the other thing he mentioned to
me is he had received a lot of telegrams and letters from all over the
country saying he was correct in doing what he did, or he was wrong in
doing what he did, or whatever it was. He was getting so many in he had
no way of writing them back. He wanted to thank each and every one for
writing to him and wanted to know if I would correspond with them on
behalf of him and that is when I said, “I would rather not get involved
in any way and you can understand why.” And he said, “Yes, I do.”
Mr. SPECTER. Have you had any other contacts at all with Jack Ruby
after November 24, 1963?
Mr. WALL. Only through corresponding letters.
Mr. SPECTER. You have now mentioned all of the contacts you have had
with him?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.