Mr. RUBY. Have I been evading any of your questions?
Mr. HERNDON. You have been most cooperative—thus far no problems.
Mr. RUBY. But you can’t tell how I stand, can you?
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, I will want to take a considerable amount of
time to review these charts very thoroughly before I come to any
conclusion.
Mr. RUBY. How long would it take—how long will it take?
Mr. HERNDON. Well, I can’t answer that question with a definite answer.
It depends on what I may run into when I study these very carefully
back in Washington.
Mr. RUBY. Bill, will I still be around when the answers come back?
Mr. ALEXANDER. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. Raise your right hand and give him your word.
Mr. ALEXANDER. That’s right.
Mr. RUBY. Chief, you heard him, did you not, Chief? [Addressing the
Chief Jailer Holman.] You and I should live so long.
Mr. HERNDON. Is that comfortable, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. Now, I’m not going to ask the questions at this time, I’m
just going to readjust the instruments.
Mr. TONAHILL. Let’s go, Bill.
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that Mr. Alexander and Mr. Tonahill
have left the room.
Mr. HERNDON. Do you want to cough, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. You want me to?
Mr. HERNDON. Yes.
(Mr. Ruby coughed at this time.)
Mr. HERNDON. All right, are you about ready to begin with this one?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. Once again, just repeating instructions, if you will
uncross your legs, sir, and put your feet flat on the floor and look
straight ahead and answer the questions truthfully “Yes” or “No.”
This will be series No. 5. I will let you know when the test will
begin. Is there a little pressure on the arm cuff?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. Now, Mr. Ruby, look straight ahead. That’s fine. Now, just
look straight ahead and try not to move, and the test will begin.
(Reporter’s note: 6:45 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. “Is your last name Ruby?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you see the armored car before it entered the
basement?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you have any brothers?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you enter the police department through a door at the
rear on the east side of the jail?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Do you have any sisters?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes.”
Mr. HERNDON. “After talking to Little Lynn did you hear any
announcement that Oswald was about to be moved?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Other than what you’ve told me, did you ever hit anyone
with any kind of weapon?”
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know how to answer that.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, just sit still and relax, sir.
Mr. RUBY. Ask me that again—I got the answer.
Mr. HERNDON. “Other than what you’ve told me, did you ever hit anyone
with any kind of weapon?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Before you left your apartment Sunday morning, did anyone
tell you the armored car was on the way to the police department?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Have you answered all questions truthfully?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes.”
Mr. HERNDON. All right, that test is over. Just sit still for a moment,
and I will now release the pressure on your arm. You can move you left
arm and relax.
(Reporter’s note: 6:50 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. I’m sorry if I gave you any problem on that question.
Mr. RUBY. Yes, because it threw me off again.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, we’ll just go over it again as a matter of
record. I asked you there, “Other than what you’ve told me, did you
ever hit anyone with any kind of weapon,” and you explained that at two
different times and that once it was in the club with some people and
customers, and another time it was outside the club, and when we bring
out other than those, was there any other time you hit anybody with a
weapon?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. You don’t recall any other time, is that correct, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. I thought I said two of them—and I thought it meant with
my fists.
Mr. HERNDON. Well, I meant with a weapon, when you actually hit someone
with an implement in your hand.
Mr. RUBY. You thought I was feminine, didn’t you, Chief? Why did you
lock me up in that tank? [Addressing Chief Jailer Holman.]
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, when I asked you, “Do you have any sisters?” I
asked that in the plural—you have more than one sister?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. You have several sisters?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. How many sisters do you have?
Mr. RUBY. Four.
Mr. HERNDON. Did anything in particular come to your mind when I asked
you that question?
Mr. RUBY. No—not like that other question.
Mr. HERNDON. What question?
Mr. RUBY. The one about “Have you ever been married?”
Mr. HERNDON. Yes, I recall.
Mr. RUBY. Do I sound like a man with an unsound mind to you?
Mr. HERNDON. As I said before, Mr. Ruby, I’m not qualified to answer
that question.
Mr. RUBY. Oh—oh.
Mr. HERNDON. You have been cooperative as far as answering my questions
and proceeding with the examination.
(At this point Mr. Specter left the room and shortly thereafter Messrs.
Alexander and Tonahill returned to the room.)
Mr. HERNDON. We can proceed and move pretty fast as soon as Mr. Specter
comes back. Just sit and relax. Would you like me to take any of these
things off?
Mr. RUBY. No, no.
Mr. HERNDON. Are you comfortable?
Mr. RUBY. You’re not going to ask me any more questions? Do you want to
go through that stuff there?
Mr. HERNDON. I think I had better wait for Mr. Specter to be here. I
don’t want to proceed without him. Can I get you a drink of water?
Mr. RUBY. No. Can we talk about certain things?
Mr. HERNDON. I suggest you wait until Mr. Specter returns.
Mr. RUBY. Is there anything on your mind, Bill, off the record?
Mr. ALEXANDER. I think with that Cuban thing cleared up and with an
opportunity to answer a question on that——
Mr. RUBY. How about the underworld?
Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, he’s going to ask you that, if he hasn’t already.
Mr. RUBY. There were a lot of phone calls, as you recall. I’m sure you
know that and there should be a specific way to ask me—“What was the
purpose of all those calls?”
Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, you see, that wouldn’t record on the machine. The
question would have to be, “Did any telephone calls have any connection
with the shooting of Oswald?”
Mr. RUBY. Yes, but still, when you have so many calls, you still want
to know why you called people.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, all your telephone calls were either business or
personal, weren’t they?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right, and the other question you asked about
Oswald—you know?
Mr. ALEXANDER. “Did any of these calls have any connection with the
shooting of Oswald?”
Mr. RUBY. No. How about my trip to Havana?
Mr. ALEXANDER. Has that been asked yet?
Mr. HERNDON. That hasn’t been asked.
Mr. ALEXANDER. “Did your trip to Havana have any connection with the
shooting of Oswald, however remote?”
Mr. RUBY. Have I ever had any business dealings—I want them to know my
relationship.
Mr. ALEXANDER. “Have you ever had any political or business connection
with Castro or Cuba?”
Mr. RUBY. That’s a good question. Or, why did I make that trip to
Havana?
Mr. ALEXANDER. “Was your trip to Havana personal or business?” I think
that’s overlapping that Cuban deal.
Mr. RUBY. Yes, but here’s the thing. When people ask me—they say,
“Jack, you went to Havana, Cuba” and I say, “I went there for a
vacation.” They say, “How long did you stay?” When I say, “8 days,”—you
somehow have got to answer specifically that it was a vacation, because
a person can be very evasive and say he went for a vacation but yet had
other dealings there.
Mr. ALEXANDER. “Was your trip to Havana purely for vacation and
pleasure?”
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Jack, my memory is just vague—you’ve never been to
Mexico?
Mr. RUBY. I never have been to Mexico, but Bill, you know a lot of
questions to ask me, I’m sure you know, that I’d like to get cleared up.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, you never have been interested in politics, as far
as I know?
Mr. RUBY. What I was doing down at that News Building—what was I doing
down there Friday—I want that question asked.
(At this point Mr. Specter returned to the room.)
Mr. TONAHILL. That’s kind of a belabored question, Jack?
Mr. RUBY. Joe, you don’t believe that.
COURT REPORTER. I want to be sure I heard Mr. Ruby’s answer to Mr.
Alexander’s question a little while ago?
Mr. RUBY. You want to hear that again?
COURT REPORTER. I didn’t quite hear your answer to Mr. Alexander’s
question, “Did any of these calls have any connection with the shooting
of Oswald?”
Mr. RUBY. Oh, you’re taking down what I’m saying? I didn’t know you
were taking that down.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; we’re taking everything down.
Mr. RUBY. Oh—well, give me the question again.
COURT REPORTER. This was when Mr. Alexander asked you, “Did any of
these calls have any connection with the shooting of Oswald?” and what
was your answer to that question?
Mr. RUBY. No.
COURT REPORTER. Thank you.
Mr. RUBY. Are you putting down the questions I’ve been asking myself?
COURT REPORTER. Yes; everything you’ve been saying.
Mr. RUBY. Voluntarily—correct?
COURT REPORTER. Oh, yes. Just like you say them.
Mr. RUBY. Okay.
Mr. SPECTER. We are putting it down in the record, Mr. Ruby, just like
you’re saying it.
Odell, can you bring me up-to-date, I’ve been out of the room.
COURT REPORTER. Mr. Alexander has been asking him certain questions
that might be asked about——
Mr. RUBY. About that Havana, Cuba trip.
COURT REPORTER. And had he been to Mexico, and had he been in politics,
and Mr. Alexander said to his knowledge he had not been interested
in politics, and the purpose of his trip to Cuba, whether it was for
business or pleasure, and I believe that is what was covered.
Mr. RUBY. The most important question—you haven’t asked me yet—why did
I shoot Oswald?
Mr. ALEXANDER. Jack, they can’t ask that kind of question for this
machine. They can only ask you—was it for a certain purpose. It has to
be a “Yes” or “No” answer.
Mr. RUBY. The point is—if I was carried away emotionally, and because
I felt that, it sounds so unbelievable. Why shouldn’t I be asked a
question—why—what motivated me to do it?
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Ruby, answer now the question, “Why did you shoot
Oswald?” and then we will turn that around into a question to ask you
for a “Yes” or “No” answer.