Mr. RUBY. No; I really don’t spot check it that closely.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wonder if we could get from Mr. Ruby, maybe if you would
make a note of this, to provide us with a list of all of your office
employees for the year 1963?
Mr. RUBY. You don’t know if this is a music teacher, do you? Probably
my wife called.
Mr. HUBERT. We are speaking generally now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We are speaking generally. First of all, I am not
addressing myself to Mr. Bibul. Right now we are just addressing
ourselves to the general problem who else might have used your phone.
Do you think you could provide us——
Mr. RUBY. Oh, sure; that is no problem.
Mr. GRIFFIN. With a list of all of the office employees which you had?
Mr. RUBY. Sure; that is no problem.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You can limit that to the year 1963.
Mr. RUBY. When you say provide a list, what do you want?
Mr. HUBERT. You want from April of 1962, don’t you?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Give us the month of April of 1962.
Mr. HUBERT. During the lunch period if you have a chance you might be
able to write that down too.
Mr. RUBY. You are talking of all office employees April 1962. Well, we
had some changes, several of them, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then you can skip the remaining months and give us all
of 1963.
Mr. RUBY. You just want their names. You don’t want any addresses or
phone numbers or anything, just their names?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, if you can give us addresses also we would
appreciate it.
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; I can take it off the employee payroll card. I can
give you the whole thing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Gives us names, addresses, and telephone numbers.
Mr. RUBY. Do you want me to ask my wife specifically about that call to
North western University?
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you would?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; because that may answer that one. What is that name?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Kirk Bibul.
Mr. RUBY. And that was in April 1962?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No.
Mr. RUBY. That would be before that?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; that was after.
Mr. RUBY. Before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That was the latter part of 1962 and the first part of
1963.
Mr. RUBY. Late 1962 and 1963.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And early 1963. I believe also you indicated to Mr. Hubert
that you didn’t recognize the name of the Ypsilanti Buffing Co. as
anybody that you had dealt with.
Mr. HUBERT. Or maybe you did identify that one.
Mr. RUBY. No; I don’t think so. Now when was this about? Maybe this had
to do with polishing or plating that same basket that we use in our dry
cleaning operation. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the Public Vending Corp?
Mr. RUBY. No; Public Vending, where are they located? Is that a long
distance call, you say?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is a long distance call. When did you have this
problem with the plating that required some work?
Mr. RUBY. Last year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What part of last year would that have been?
Mr. RUBY. No, excuse me; yes, the end of last year, that is right, the
end of last year, and that is when I think I called Troy Plating in
Chicago, to see if they could do that, and I may have called. I used
the yellow pages. I tried to get information from anyone as to who
could do it, so I may have called Ypsilanti, and they may have said no
and I crossed it out of my mind immediately.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now the General Scientific Corp. is not a corporation that
you recognize?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; oh, yes. We bought lenses from them for the camera.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Berger Products?
Mr. RUBY. That don’t register with me. What city? That isn’t in
Cleveland, is it, by chance, because I just called Berger Products I
think Monday, but that wouldn’t be on there. That is this Monday. See,
we buy different articles from different parts of the country, and it
is hard to remember each one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are these purchases in connection with your drycleaning
business or some other business?
Mr. RUBY. Which, Troy? That was for the drycleaning. The lens, that was
for my camera.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you asked him, Mr. Hubert, about what percentage of
his time is spent with——
Mr. HUBERT. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us some idea what percentage of your time is
spent with the camera company and what percentage with the drycleaning
business?
Mr. RUBY. The camera company is practically nil. In fact, it is out
of business now. Over a 2-year period I only did about $10,000 gross
sales, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Last year how much of your time was devoted to the camera
company?
Mr. RUBY. When you say time, actually I took care of it more or less
out of my home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any other businesses last year besides the
camera company and the drycleaning business?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I had the nameplate business. That all comes under Earl
Ruby Co., both of those.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How much of your time did the nameplate business take?
Mr. RUBY. Very little. I don’t think I did a thousand dollars in the
last 2 years on that, so you can imagine how much time that took up.
And then that is dead now. In fact, the orders were so small that
instead of manufacturing the plates myself, for which I have the tools
and dies, I had somebody else do it for me that makes a similar item.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of nameplates are they?
Mr. RUBY. A little plate 3 inches by 6 inches made out of metal. It is
very similar to the design of your license plate, but we would put the
children’s name on it, like John Jones, and they would fasten it to the
back of their bicycle or their wagon or what have you. This was a box
top deal item that we used, Armour’s Meats used it several years ago.
They send in a box top from Armour’s franks with 25 cents, and you get
the plate, things like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You say you held the dies on it?
Mr. RUBY. I own them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You own the dies, but you were going to have somebody else
manufacture them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, I did, because it didn’t pay for me to set up to make
100 plates, because it just wasn’t worth it, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did the manufacturing?
Mr. RUBY. Dixie.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this your brother-in-law’s company?
Mr. RUBY. Who?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Dixie?
Mr. RUBY. Dixie, no; that is just some people I never even met, but I
knew that they made a very similar plate, exactly the same size but
slightly different in design, and that I could substitute this for
mine. Actually, his was a better plate. It was made out of aluminum,
which I did. And so that it wasn’t necessary for me to go through all
the bother and expense to set up my operation to make the plate.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is the Dixie Seal and Stamp Co.?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In Atlanta?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now the Berger Products Co. is in Philadelphia.
Mr. RUBY. Oh, Berger Products. They made a plate, and the reason I
called them, I have got to go back. When I sold my company, Earl
Products, the fellow I sold it to couldn’t pay me all the money. So we
made a new deal. He gave me some money and some of the operation back.
That is how I got back the camera and the nameplate. Berger is also
in the nameplate manufacturing business, and I wanted to sell him the
nameplate business if I could. That is why I called him. Now I know. It
is Philadelphia. That must be the Berger Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now did Mr. Hubert ask you if you knew anybody at the
Mar-Din Co.?
Mr. RUBY. No; he didn’t ask me that. Yes; I know those people.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you happen to know them?
Mr. RUBY. They were one of our best accounts years ago when I first got
into manufacturing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This was in the Earl Products?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; the Earl Products Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of things did they purchase from you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they purchased aluminum salt and pepper shaker sets.
That was the main item. And then they also purchased some hammer and
screwdriver sets, because at that time I was manufacturing those, too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you deal with these people while your brother Jack was
connected with Earl Products?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did Jack know these people?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What does the Mar-Din Co. do?
Mr. RUBY. They are distributors of general merchandise, I would say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do they do any manufacturing that you know of?
Mr. RUBY. No; I don’t thing so, not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is the nature of their distribution? Is it mail order
or direct sale?
Mr. RUBY. Well, it is both. I think some mail order and they have
salesmen, which would mean direct.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember talking with Jack, your brother Jack,
about the Mar-Din Co. at anytime last year?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think when he was talking about—I am not sure now, but
I think that he brought up their name when he was talking to me about
going into the manufacture of the twistboard, and he thought they would
be a very good outlet.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you recall what you suggested to him?
Mr. RUBY. No; I am not even sure of that. I can’t remember a
conversation that took place.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember receiving any telephone calls from Jack in
the month of November before the episode down in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; we talked about the twistboard.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many calls do you recall receiving from him?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, at least three or four, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And were they all in connection with the twistboard?
Mr. RUBY. As far as I know; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to ask you to try to reflect on these calls and see
if we can’t discuss them one by one. If you can, try to think about the
first time he called you and the next time, and so forth, so that we
can ascertain how your dealings with him progressed?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think the first conversation was probably to the
effect that he had a good item, and he was going to send me one, and he
told me something about it, it is a terrific item, and he wants to get
into the manufacture of it, if he could.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he send you one of them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he did. In fact he sent me, I think he sent me a half
dozen. No; the first time he only sent me two, and then when I was down
in Dallas, you know, for the trial and so forth, I brought back a half
dozen for my kids, and so on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it that you were interested then in the project?
Mr. RUBY. No; not for myself. He wanted me to see if I could locate
people to make the parts at the least possible cost. He wanted to get
into the manufacture in Dallas, and he mentioned to me, because I was
trying to discourage him, because first of all he don’t know too much
about manufacturing, and to set up for one item, which I didn’t think
was such a tremendous item, I thought was a little bit ridiculous. And
then he said that he would have the Goodwill organization assemble
it for him. I don’t know if you are familiar with their complete
operation, but they will assemble items for you at a very reasonable
rate.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is Goodwill Industries?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And was that going to be done in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. In Dallas. So then he sent me the sample, and somehow I think
this Triangle manufacturing came up. He may have mentioned it. I am not
sure because I don’t remember every word of the conversation going back
that far. I think I called Triangle, if that is their name. I am not
even sure of that. He called me and he said, he might have said, “call
them and see what you can do.” Anyhow, I contacted a couple of people
in Detroit that I thought might know something about the twistboard,
because he told me it was so tremendous in Dallas I figured it’s got
to be known here in Detroit, although I had never even seen it. So
I asked—I happened to call a fellow that is a salesman for toys and
novelties and things of that sort.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was that?
Mr. RUBY. I can’t even think. I know his first name is Henny, I can’t
even think of his last name, and he said it is a flop, it is a dead
item here. They tried it and it didn’t go over. So I think in one of
the conversations I no doubt told Jack that, and anyhow I got a sample
and I think it was of this part that we needed, the bearing part for
this twistboard. Maybe I had better describe it. It is a little board,
fiberboard about 12 inches square and it sets on a bearing like, and
the bearing has another piece of press wood under it, and if you stand
on it and you twist, you twist around. That is what the item was. And I
couldn’t see it, especially it was selling for $3. I couldn’t see it. I
just didn’t think anything of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it Jack was enthusiastic about it?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; he was very enthused. He was going to get started.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to dissuade him at all from his enthusiasm?
Mr. RUBY. I think so, I think so. I really don’t know. As far as I
know, I think I did. I told him it just doesn’t pay to get into it,
because the one that was being marketed, if I recall he told me was
selling for $3. So he said if he could sell his for $2. it would be
tremendous. But I figured out the cost to him about 80 cents and if you
sell the jobbers, you have got to give them 50 and 10 off. By the way,
I have gone all through this with him but I just want to make it clear.
So that means he is going to get 90 cents. In addition they want 2
percent, so you get 88 cents, approximately, and it costs you 80 cents,
so you can’t be in business on 8 cents gross profit on an item that you
are selling for 88 cents. It is just impossible.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And in which telephone conversation did you have this
discussion?
Mr. RUBY. In one of them, not the first one, because I didn’t have all
the information then. But after I got all the information, I called him
or he called me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember Jack calling you after the telephone call,
a few days after the telephone call that was made in connection with
Triangle? Do you remember that telephone call?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think so, and that is when I told him I think they
wanted 45 cents, and that is when I broke down the price structure,
that it just didn’t seem feasible to consider manufacturing it if you
had to sell it at $2 and I probably told him at that time, I checked
into it and it was a flop in Detroit, so it was my opinion it wasn’t
good.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack call you in November about anything other than
the twistboard?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t think so. I think the only thing we discussed other
than—maybe how is the family, you know, how are your kids, which is the
general conversation when two brothers talk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever call you in connection with Eva’s illness?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, yes; he did mention that, that she was going to have an
operation, she was going to have an operation, she had an operation,
and he said, “I think you should call her or write her” or something. I
don’t know, I may have even called her in the hospital, I really don’t
remember, but he said she was feeling very bad, and for me to either
write her, send her a card or call her, and I don’t know what I did. I
did something but I don’t remember exactly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While Jack was living in Dallas, had you talked with him
about other business ventures that he had, outside of his clubs?
Mr. RUBY. Well, a few years ago I talked to him about, he had a vitamin
called Miniron, or something like that. In fact, I tried to discourage
him about that, but I couldn’t, and in fact I think if I remember
correctly, I sent him some money to try it, but it just didn’t go.
It was a vitamin, a liquid vitamin of some kind that he thought was
terrific. He was always taking diet pills and stuff like that. He was
whatever the name for that is. Anyhow, he went for all kinds of diet
remedies that came on the market. But it never seemed to help him much
because he liked to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any recollection of when he was selling these
diet pills or these vitamin pills?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, it is a few years back. It had to be—it was a liquid. I
don’t think it was a pill. It was a bottle of some kind. In fact, he
sent me some. It is several years back, I mean 4, 5 or 6 or 7. I don’t
remember exactly. It was several years ago I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you recall your activities of the weekend of November
22, 23, and 24?
Mr. RUBY. The 22d, Friday, right?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. I was at work drycleaning when we heard the news on the radio.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That the President had been shot?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; first shot. Then we were waiting for additional news,
and then finally it came through that he was dead.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain at the drycleaning plant that day?
Mr. RUBY. Gee, I would say probably until 6 o’clock. That is my usual
hour.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. RUBY. Friday I always go home to dinner Friday night because it is
traditional in our family. Jewish people, we have a big meal on Friday
nights, so very, very seldom would I miss a Friday night dinner. I am
quite sure I went home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t have any specific recollection of what you did
Friday night?
Mr. RUBY. No; I was deeply upset, like most everybody else, I think,
and I went home I know at 6 o’clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have a specific recollection of going home and
being at home on Friday night?
Mr. RUBY. No; not specific, but I can’t see what else I would have done
but go home to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you did in the evening after you ate,
Friday evening?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is it your practice to go to religious services on Friday?
Mr. RUBY. You wouldn’t go on Friday night, would you? No; I don’t go on
Friday night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you of the Jewish faith?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you have a particular temple or synagogue?
Mr. RUBY. More or less, yes, but I am not what you call Orthodox. The
Orthodox, you know, just like other religions, they go every chance
they get more or less. But I am not of the Orthodox.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But the temple or synagogue that you belong to, when does
it regularly hold services?
Mr. RUBY. It probably holds them—I don’t know. I know they have them
Saturday. Saturday they always have services. I don’t think they have
services there Friday night. They don’t have services on Friday night
as far as I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall your own religious practices when you were
living in Chicago with Jack? Did your practices and feelings at that
time differ from his?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I would say—can you make that a little more clear?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Looking back to the time when you and Jack saw each other
regularly when you were in Chicago, when Jack was in Chicago, were
your religious practices the same as they are now? Were you any more
religious then? Did you observe the holidays more closely?
Mr. RUBY. You want to compare Jack with myself?
Mr. GRIFFIN. First of all, let me ask you about your own practice.
Mr. RUBY. Well, you must understand, first, that it is very unusual for
a Jewish boy not to be bar mitzvah.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am not asking about particular ceremonies, but I am
asking you about the regular habits of weekly attendance and so forth.
Did they differ in the period before 1948 from the way they are now?
Mr. RUBY. Mine?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. Well, I would say I go more often since I got married, of
course, because that is the Jewish tradition. When you get married,
you have children, my kids go to Hebrew school, they went to parochial
school, in fact my son graduated from the Hebrew school in Chicago, and
so I would say I am more religious since we have children.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you were single in Chicago, how did your
religious practices differ from Jack’s?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I would say he was a little more religious than I was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he attend the synagogue or temple more often than you
did?
Mr. RUBY. I would say more often than I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he go regularly?
Mr. RUBY. I wouldn’t say regularly, but he did go more often than I
did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how many times a year would he go other than on high
holidays?
Mr. RUBY. This goes back so many years. You know he has been away more
or less from me for 17 years now, so it is pretty hard to remember. And
you know he is not the only one in the family. We still have six more
children. I can’t even remember all their birthdays, remembering who
went where on holidays.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you don’t have a specific recollection, I don’t want to
ask you the question, then. Let’s go back to the 22d, 23d, and the 24th.
Do you recall what you did on Saturday, the 23d?
Mr. RUBY. I think I went to work, the usual time, probably 7:30, and
probably worked until 6 o’clock. Saturday is a busy day for us, and
probably went home so far as I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You used the word “probably.” Are you indicating that
you don’t really have any specific recollection of what you did that
Saturday?
Mr. RUBY. I would say I probably went home, but I am not sure. I would
have to check with my wife to make sure. I don’t think we went out,
because we were in deep mourning.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were, or you were not?
Mr. RUBY. I said we were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were in deep mourning?
Mr. RUBY. So I don’t think we would have gone any place.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What do you mean when you said you were in deep mourning?
Mr. RUBY. Well, we cried a lot in our family when this happened, I mean
actual tears.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us when this happened? Can you describe to us
where and when and who was present? What was happening around you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I don’t know exactly what our—but I know after this
happened, probably on Friday night, my wife was definitely in tears at
that time, and I was, too. We both greatly admired him. In fact, my
wife on many occasions, even before the incident, she just loved him.
There was nobody greater than President Kennedy. She made a statement
many times.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you both registered Democrats?
Mr. RUBY. I was a Democrat all my life. In fact, I worked for the
Democratic headquarters in Chicago many years ago. All our family has
been Democrats all our lives, as far as I can remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you did Sunday morning?
Mr. RUBY. On the 26th? Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The 24th.
Mr. RUBY. The 24th. We needed some electrical work done at the plant,
and the only time to do it without interfering with production was
to have it done on Sunday morning. So I had the electrician come in
on Sunday, and I met him there, I think, about 10 o’clock probably,
Sunday morning, at the plant to do this work, and I was there until—I
just wanted to get them started, and I had one of my other employees
there to watch things, you know, because we had an outside contractor,
electrical contractor here to do the work, and there is a lot of
clothing there and we wanted to be careful if they worked on the
ceiling that they didn’t drop dirt on the clothing and so forth.
So I left. I was there maybe 2 hours, I don’t remember, anyhow I
wasn’t in the car but 5 minutes or so driving one of the other
employees—another employee who stopped in home—I was en route to drive
him home. We had the radio tuned in. That is when I heard—no, before
I left this Mike Nemzin, who is my best friend, and his brother is my
partner, he was in the hospital with an operation——
Mr. GRIFFIN. The brother or Mike Nemzin?
Mr. RUBY. Mike Nemzin. He had some kind of surgery on his ribs or
something, a very serious one, though, and so I thought I would call
him to see how he was.
So I called him Sunday morning, it must have been about 12 o’clock,
from the plant, I was at the plant, mind you, and as I am talking to
him, he is in his bed in the hospital, he is watching television or
radio and he says to me, “I can’t talk to you. Somebody just shot
Oswald,” he says.
“I’ll talk to you some other time.” You know, because we were all
excited, especially he was. So I hung up. And we didn’t have the radio
on in the plant, but we left a few minutes thereafter. And in the car,
as I said, about 5 minutes later, as I am in the car driving, just
drove probably a mile from the plant, which wouldn’t take more than 5
minutes, it comes through on the radio that Oswald has been shot and
the fellow that did the shooting is Jack Ruby, owner of the Carousel
Night Club in Dallas, and I immediately knew it was my brother because
that was the name of the club he owned.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you say you were riding with someone at the time?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his name?
Mr. RUBY. Jim Stewart.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he still work for you?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Where is he located now; do you know?
Mr. RUBY. Right now he is in the hospital, Receiving Hospital in
Detroit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you heard that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I was very upset, of course, and he said—I was
driving—he said, “You had better pull over to the curb. You just turned
white as a ghost.”
So I pulled over for a second or for a few minutes to recuperate my
senses, so to speak. And then I said, “I had better take you home,”
which I did. Then I went home. I drove home, and I called my sister in
Chicago. I don’t even know which one I called. There is two of them.
And they knew about it, of course, by that time, too. This was a half
hour later and they probably heard it on the air. And they were all
upset, of course. And I said, “Well, I had better come to Chicago.” So
I called the airport and I flew to Chicago Sunday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain at the cleaning plant after you
finished talking with Mike Nemzin?
Mr. RUBY. Just a couple of minutes, just a few minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what other people were in the plant at that time?
Mr. RUBY. When I talked to Mike Nemzin?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. The electrician, I think, and his helper, he had a helper,
you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember the name of the electrician?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us his name?
Mr. RUBY. The trade name, I think, is Marco Electrical Contractors, and
his first name is Marty. That is with a “c”. It is a little bit of an
odd name, but I have it available there if it is necessary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. His last name starts with a “c”?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think that is where he got this Marco. And then, of
course, as I told you I flew to Chicago, and my brother met me at the
airport, if I am not mistaken, Hyman, and this was already before I
could get reservations and get the plane and pack some clothes and all.
It was late in the afternoon, and I think I arrived there, if I am not
mistaken, probably 6 o’clock in Chicago, and it takes about an hour to
get there.
Anyhow, no sooner I got in the house, you know, of course, the
reporters were calling and it was a real—we tried not to talk to
everyone, to anyone, if I recall.
When I got there, then my sister said that there were some men at the
door and they said they were FBI men or special agents, and she thought
they were reporters so she wouldn’t let them in, and she was hysterical
now, to put it straight. And so then we got a call. We did answer the
phone, of course, and we got a call from an agent, I can’t remember
his name, but he said that they want to get in and talk to us and we
wouldn’t let anybody in. You know, we just wouldn’t let anybody in. So
he says, “Here is a number and call this number and my name is”—one of
them was White, and I can’t think of the other one, one of the agents
in Chicago. “Call this number and they will verify this that we are
special agents.” So I said OK. So I went out to a pay station and
called, and sure enough they said yes, they are agents, and so I walked
back into the house the back way, and I saw them standing in the front,
by the way. You know, there were about three or four of them. And I
told my sister we had better let them in, they are special agents,
which we did. There were four, I think. Four agents came in at one time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did they interview you and your brother and your
sister?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; all of us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you being interviewed simultaneously by the Bureau?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; in different parts of the house.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So that while you were being interviewed, one or more of
your brothers and sisters were also being interviewed.
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; they talked to one sister, I think one agent talked
to her in the kitchen or dining room or another part of the house, and
one or two were with us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, at the time the Secret Service agents had talked to
you, had you had a chance to talk with any of your family in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Had I?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Excuse me, at the time that the FBI talked to you, did you
have an opportunity to talk with any of your family in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t think I even had time. I don’t think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t recall having talked to them?
Mr. RUBY. No; but I don’t think so at all. There was just not enough
time. I called Chicago, if I recall, that is all I called. I don’t
think I called Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Hyman or your sisters in Chicago had a chance to talk
with Eva or Sam?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know. I don’t know.