Mr. RUBY. Family.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Harry C. Futterman?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, that is my wife’s brother-in-law. He is married to my
wife’s sister.
Mr. HUBERT. What does he do for a living?
Mr. RUBY. He worked for the post office until he retired a few years
ago, and now he works for a brother-in-law of his who is in the lumber
business.
Mr. HUBERT. Where does he live?
Mr. RUBY. He lives at 7209 Northeast Prairie, in Lincolnwood, Ill.
Mr. HUBERT. Lincoln?
Mr. RUBY. Wood.
Mr. HUBERT. Lincolnwood?
Mr. RUBY. A suburb of Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Colley Sullivan?
Mr. RUBY. Colley Sullivan?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. RUBY. No, no, it doesn’t register at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Dominick or Dominic Scorta
or Siorta?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Anesi Umberto?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, I think that is the one.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us about him.
Mr. RUBY. I am trying to think. I did business with—no, that is another
name. I know a fellow by the name of Mario Anesi.
Mr. HUBERT. And who is he?
Mr. RUBY. He is the fellow that used to make all our tools and dies in
Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Tools and dies for the Earl Products?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, I thought that is who you were talking about. Anesi
Umberto, no, I don’t know him.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a Mario Umberto?
Mr. RUBY. Maybe that is the same fellow. I know him by Mario Anesi.
Mr. HUBERT. A-n-e-s-i?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know how you spell his name. I am not even sure.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you seen or had any contact with this gentleman in the
last year or so?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. In fact, he was just here, he was just in Detroit for
the tool convention or whatever they call them, and he called me just
to say hello, because he has tools and dies of mine in his place yet,
old things, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was just in the last few weeks, I gather.
Mr. RUBY. Yes. That was about a month ago. That is all.
Mr. HUBERT. Prior to that contact with him, when was the next previous
contact?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he makes the camera shutters, camera shutter parts for
me, and I saw him in Chicago a little more than a year ago. I stopped
in to discuss changing—it is probably a year-and-a-half ago—changing
the die for one of the parts.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any telephone conversations with him in that
interval, during that period?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think I did.
Mr. HUBERT. What would it have been about?
Mr. RUBY. Only about tools and dies. In fact, I tried to sell him the
tools and dies for the nameplate.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that?
Mr. RUBY. Right after I took it over from Mr. Oliff.
Mr. HUBERT. It would have been about a little over 2 years ago?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; and then I would have to talk to him once in awhile
about ordering the parts, if I were in Chicago I would call him and
tell him what I need or something like that. But I know him as Mario
Anesi.
Mr. HUBERT. And you do know as far as your memory serves you, either a
person called Anesi Umberto or a person called Mario Umberto?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anyone whose last name is Umberto,
U-m-b-e-r-t-o?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anyone by the name of Kirk Bibul?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What about a person by the name of Elliott Schwartz?
Mr. RUBY. Elliott Schwartz, he is married to another sister of my wife.
Mr. HUBERT. Where does he live?
Mr. RUBY. New York.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have occasion to contact him?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, sure. I see him, he comes in for events, marriages, bar
mitzvahs and all that stuff. In fact, I wanted to call him last night
because I am so close.
Mr. HUBERT. It is a social relationship, social and family?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. No business relationship?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I was going to have him manufacture the nameplates
for me, when I couldn’t sell them to Mario Anesi, he told me business
was bad up in New York, so I sent the tools and dies there, but we
never used them, never got any sales, so the tools and dies for the
nameplates are just there not being used at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Edward A. Cobo was the owner of the Cobo Cleaners
prior to the time you bought it out?
Mr. RUBY. The junior, I bought it from the junior, his mother and his
sister. I think Cobo himself had passed away several years ago.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you said he was mayor.
Mr. RUBY. His brother, Al Cobo, was the mayor, but Al and Edward Cobo
owned Cobo Cleaners. The mayor owns half of it.
Mr. HUBERT. But when you bought it, the mayor had died?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And his interest had passed to his family, I take it?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; to probably, I don’t know but I think it probably passed
to his brother and then his brother passed away and then the interest
went to the brother’s wife and son and daughter, and that is who we
bought it from.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Buddy Heard?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any contact with a company called the Anran
Tool and Manufacturing Co.?
Mr. RUBY. Are you sure it is Anran and not Anson?
Mr. HUBERT. Maybe it is Anson.
Mr. RUBY. That is owned by Mario Anesi and his brother.
Mr. HUBERT. So that any contacts you would have had with that company
was really what you were talking about a little while ago?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is right. They made all the parts for us and tools
and dies for, oh, 10 years or more.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t know if you stated what Mario Anesi’s brother’s
name was.
Mr. RUBY. One’s name is Burt, that is how I know him by, Burt, and he
has another brother. I don’t even know his name.
Mr. HUBERT. Are they all in this company?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; now, Burt could possibly be Umberto, I don’t know,
because Burt is an unusual name for Italian people.
Mr. HUBERT. And your statement is that your contacts in the last 2
years say with the Anesi’s or the Anson Tool and Manufacturing Company
have been as you have stated in regard to the dies and the manufacture
of shutters and so on?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the Triangle Manufacturing Co.? Have you had any
contact with that company?
Mr. RUBY. Triangle? What do they make?
I once had a Triangle many years ago that made—I think it is
Triangle—made a set of cutting dies for me. I don’t know if it is the
same company.
Mr. HUBERT. Where are they located, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. In Chicago, I think. But I had very little—if I remember, it
was one order. But there are so many Triangles. I even think many years
ago I bought some cartons from a Triangle Carton Company, but you are
saying manufacturing company. I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. The Triangle Manufacturing Co. that I am thinking of is in
Oshkosh, Wis.
Mr. RUBY. It don’t sound familiar at all. Does it say what they
make—because in the years we were manufacturing we used to buy parts
and things from all over the country. But it doesn’t seem to register
with me at all, Oshkosh.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have any recollection of having made a telephone
call to that company on November 1?
Mr. RUBY. What year?
Mr. HUBERT. 1963.
Mr. RUBY. Oh, then I think I know who that is. I think, I am not
sure now, I think they make, what do you call it, bearings. I think
they make bearings, and the reason I called them, if it is the right
company, I am not even sure of that, is that my brother Jack wanted to
make, had seen this twistboard, it is a little board with a bearing
underneath it, and you stand on it and you learn to twist that way,
and he, knowing that I had been in manufacturing and knew all about
manufacturing, asked me if I could find out where to get this type of
bearing. It was a usual, simple, very inexpensive type. So I don’t know
how I got their name. I think I called somebody. I learned of somebody
that was selling them or making them around Detroit, and I called them.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean making those bearings?
Mr. RUBY. Making the whole twistboard, and I think they referred me to
Triangle, and I called them, if that is the correct company, and had
them send me a sample and a quotation.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anything come of it?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What did Jack propose to do so far as you know?