The testimony of Earl Ruby was taken at 9 a.m., on June 3, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. Burt W. Griffin and
Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Earl Ruby.
My name is Leon D. Hubert. I am a member of the Advisory Staff of the
General Counsel of the President’s Commission on the Assassination of
President Kennedy.
Under the provisions of the Presidential Executive Order 11130,
dated November 29, 1963, the joint resolution of Congress No. 137,
and the rules of procedure adopted by the President’s Commission, in
conformance with that Executive order and that joint resolution, I have
been authorized by the Commission to take a sworn deposition from you.
I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission’s inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relative to the
assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of
Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Ruby, the nature of the inquiry today is
to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald, and about
any possible relationship of Jack Ruby with that death, and any other
pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry.
Now, Mr. Ruby, I think you appear here today by virtue of a letter
addressed to you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel for the staff of
the President’s Commission. Is that a fact, sir?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is true.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that received?
Mr. RUBY. I received that Monday when I returned home from work about 7
p.m., it was waiting for me.
Mr. HUBERT. It was June 1?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the date of it?
Mr. RUBY. That it was mailed?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. It was mailed May 28.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t think there is any problem about it, but just
to make certain, under the rules adopted by the Commission you are
entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of this
deposition, but the rules also provide that a witness may waive the
3-day notice if he wishes. I think that there has actually been a 3-day
notice under the rules of the Commission since the 3 days commence to
run from the time of the mailing of the document, but in this case, as
I said, the rules provide that you can waive the 3-day written notice,
and I will ask you now if you are willing to waive it and go on with
your testimony today.
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I am willing to waive the 3-day notice.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand, then, and raise your right hand, so I may
administer the oath.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this
matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your full name, please, sir?
Mr. RUBY. Earl R. Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are you, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Forty-nine.
Mr. HUBERT. You are married?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who are you married to? What was the maiden name of the
lady you married?
Mr. RUBY. Margie Greene.
Mr. HUBERT. And have you been married only once?
Mr. RUBY. No; I was married twice.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of your first wife?
Mr. RUBY. Mildred Brownstein.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you marry her, and where?
Mr. RUBY. I married her in Chicago in 1945.
Mr. HUBERT. And how was that marriage dissolved?
Mr. RUBY. Through divorce.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was the divorce obtained?
Mr. RUBY. In Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. You have been married, then, twice only?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And do you have any children?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; three.
Mr. HUBERT. Any from the first marriage?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. For the record, would you state the names of the children
and their ages?
Mr. RUBY. Robert, 15 years of age; Denise, 13 years of age; and Joyce,
10 years of age.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you presently reside?
Mr. RUBY. 29925 Woodland Drive, Southfield, Mich.
Mr. HUBERT. Is Southfield near Detroit?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; it is a suburb, northwest suburb of Detroit.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Ruby, I wish to get some general background concerning
you, starting off with where you were born and where you spent the
early years of your life. Will you tell us, please?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir. I was born in Chicago on April 16, 1915, and I
lived on what is known as the east side of Chicago, and went to school
in that area for a few years, and then my mother and father became
separated, and I was sent to a foster home, and then I also was sent
to live on a farm for a year, a little more than a year. Then I came
back and lived in another foster home for awhile. Then we sort of,
the family sort of, got together and I moved back with my mother and
the rest of the family other than my father, and then we more or less
lived together until I enlisted in the Service in 1942, and then my
mother passed away in 1944, and then I became married in 1945. Is that
skipping too much, do you think?
Mr. HUBERT. No; I would like to go back a bit and get some dates on
some of the things you have said there. For example, when did your
father and mother separate so that home was broken?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know. I don’t remember, it is so far.
Mr. HUBERT. How old were you, roughly?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t even know, 8, 7, 8, 9. I don’t even remember.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you think it would have been around the
early 1920’s, 1922, 1923, 1924, somewhere along in there?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. I don’t remember those dates at all.
Mr. HUBERT. What were the foster homes? Were they sort of orphanages?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or homes.
Mr. RUBY. Private homes.
Mr. HUBERT. Private homes?
Mr. RUBY. Private homes.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you separated from your brothers and sisters when you
went to the foster home, or did they go to the same foster home?
Mr. RUBY. On the farm I was with my brother Sam, and Jack was in
another farm some distance away from us. In the foster home Sam and I
were together again, I think, just Sam and I. Then in another foster
home, I think Jack was with us. The three of us were in one foster home
together.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you said that you lived at what was called the east
side in Chicago.
Mr. RUBY. Yes; it was like the ghetto of Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. I wanted to get what sort of a neighborhood is that? What
sort of a district was it?
Mr. RUBY. It was the Maxwell Street district of Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you describe that a bit?
Mr. RUBY. It is where they have the pushcarts on the street. I don’t
know a word that would describe that, but you know, have all their
wares displayed right on the street and right on the sidewalk. It is
several blocks long.
Mr. HUBERT. The foster homes were not in that neighborhood, were they?
Mr. RUBY. No, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Where were the farms?
Mr. RUBY. The farm that I was on was in Woodstock, Ill.
Mr. HUBERT. What sort of work were you doing on the farm?
Mr. RUBY. We helped the farmer, you know, with regular farm chores.
We fed the cows and the horses and took the cows to the pasture and
brought them back.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to school during all that time?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; sure.
Mr. HUBERT. Even when you were on the farm?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; sure.
Mr. HUBERT. So that what is your educational background?
Mr. RUBY. I finished high school.
Mr. HUBERT. Which one?
Mr. RUBY. Crane High School in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any other formal education in the sense of
special training in any field?
Mr. RUBY. I would say no.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us something of the background and early life
of your brother Jack, say, from the time 1925 forward, 1930, along in
there? I think he is a couple of years older than you.
Mr. RUBY. Yes. He is about 3 years older than I am. Well, I can tell
you that he always seemed to be in fights in one manner or another that
I can remember. He was like the bodyguard of the family, you might say,
because in those years we lived a half block from Roosevelt Road, and
on the other side of the road was the Italian section, and that was
called, we used to call it Dago Town, and the Jews couldn’t go near
that street. And my sisters, well, if they weren’t escorted to the
streetcars then and nobody arranged to meet them at the streetcar when
they returned from work, they would be insulted and abused. So that
was, more or less, Jack’s job, if I recall, to meet them there.
He always had to go and meet them at the streetcar when they were
returning from work. In the morning I don’t think it was so bad because
so many people were going to the streetcar.
Mr. HUBERT. How old was Jack at that time that you are describing? I
gather it would have been after the family was brought together again.
Mr. RUBY. No, no, no. This goes back, it must have been in the
twenties. Maybe he was 15 years old or so.
Mr. HUBERT. When did the family come back together again after having
been separated?
Mr. RUBY. Maybe 1928 or 1929. I am not sure of these dates, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. The reason I asked is because I was under the impression
that after your father left, there was a breakup of the family, and
then you were not living in this section of Chicago.
Mr. RUBY. No. We moved west on Sacramento Boulevard. That is when I
remember coming back to the family.
Mr. HUBERT. What I am getting at are these instances that Jack had to
act as bodyguard against the Italian element, as you put it. That was
not when you were living in foster homes, was it?
Mr. RUBY. No, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Nor was it when you were living on the farm?
Mr. RUBY. No, no, no. That was in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. So it was either prior to the breakup of the family or
afterwards?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. After the reconciliation, or was it both?
Mr. RUBY. I would say that I remember it was prior.
Mr. HUBERT. He was just a teenager then?
Mr. RUBY. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. When the family was brought together again, which was
around 1928, where did the family live then?
Mr. RUBY. On Sacramento Boulevard in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. And that is a different thing from the so-called east side?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is further west.
Mr. HUBERT. And you didn’t have any such difficulties at that time?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; we did, because even though we were west we were still
borderlining the Italian element, but we were further west. But it was
an improvement as to the other section.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the family remained more or less as a unit, I gather
it is your testimony, until the war came.
Mr. RUBY. Yes, yes. Before the war Jack lived in San Francisco for
awhile.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did he live there, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. It would be a few years. I don’t know exactly.
Mr. HUBERT. I think he went there with your sister.
Mr. RUBY. That is right, sir; and he was working for a newspaper
selling subscriptions.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know why they went out to the west coast?
Mr. RUBY. No; I don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. It was just Eva and Jack?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Had the other girls married by then?
Mr. RUBY. I think one sister was married. I think my sister Ann was
married by then.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever, yourself, been convicted of any felony?
Mr. RUBY. No; never.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any business dealings at all with Jack prior
to 1933, that is to say, prior to the time you moved to the west coast?
Mr. RUBY. Business dealings? No; because I was going to school then. I
was in grammar school and high school.
Mr. HUBERT. In 1933 actually you were 18.
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I was in high school.
Mr. HUBERT. What about your business associations with Jack after his
return from the west coast, until you went into the service? Did you
have any?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. We worked together for, oh, I think maybe a year. He
and another fellow, I think his name is Harry Epstein, organized the
Spartan Novelty Co., which has been out of business for many years.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a corporation?
Mr. RUBY. No; it was just a small company, very.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you a part of it then, or did you become a part of it?
Mr. RUBY. No; I was only an employee. I worked with them.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the business of that company?
Mr. RUBY. It was selling cedar chests with candy and punchcards.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that business last?
Mr. RUBY. Only until, I worked with them only until the war broke out,
because I came back. I was working with them—right after the war broke
out December 7, then February—some time in February—I enlisted in the
Seabees of the Navy, and then I went into the service, and when I
came out of the service, my other three brothers were still in, and I
started up the same type of business, cedar chests with candy.
Mr. HUBERT. This Spartan Novelty Co. was really prior to the war then?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And it lasted how many years?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I only worked for them about a year.
Mr. HUBERT. Is Epstein still living?
Mr. RUBY. Still living? Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where?
Mr. RUBY. In Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. What business is he in?
Mr. RUBY. He sells, manufactures and sells—what would you call that—I
think onyx desk sets. I did have business dealings then. Do you want me
to go on now?
Mr. HUBERT. I wanted to ask you about a trip that I think you took to
Seattle in 1941. Do you remember that?
Mr. RUBY. Seattle?
Mr. HUBERT. Washington; yes.
Mr. RUBY. Seattle in 1941. In 1942 in the service, 1942.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you did go to Seattle?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, because I went through the Seabees. I was in the
Seabees, and we shoved off from Bremerton, Wash., which, as you know,
is right across the bay from Seattle. That is the only time I remember
being there.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember the name of Daniel Sloan?
Mr. RUBY. I know the Sloan family in Chicago, but I don’t know if his
name is Daniel.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know any Sloan family, and particularly a Daniel
Sloan, in Seattle?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And your statement is that you did not visit him prior to
the war at all?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or had you ever been to Seattle prior to the war?
Mr. RUBY. No. Only with the Seabees when we stayed at Camp—I can’t
remember—I think it is Lewis, Fort Lewis there. We stayed with the Army
because they had no facilities, and we then went across to Bremerton
and we got on a ship there and left from there.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you go to?
Mr. RUBY. The Aleutian Islands.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay in the service?
Mr. RUBY. In the service? About 2 years.
Mr. HUBERT. And were you honorably discharged?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You left the service prior to the end of the war, then?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you explain how that came about?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I had some trouble with a varicocele in my testicles.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you sure it is not varicose?
Mr. RUBY. No, they call it varicocele. It is a little different.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get a medical discharge?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, I think it is called a medical.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any disability of such a nature that you received
disability pay?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, 10 percent.
Mr. HUBERT. And you still do?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. Anyhow, how this took place, they were going to operate,
and they prepared me for the operation the night before. You know, they
shaved me and all that, and give me the pill, the sleeping pill or
whatever it was, and then the next morning I got up and I was dopey, of
course, and I felt—and there was no operation—no pain, and I couldn’t
understand it, and so when I was able enough to talk coherently I
called the nurse and asked her what happened. She says they changed
their mind, and they were going to discharge me from the service
because they didn’t think I would be of much use to them after the
operation. I think that was the reason, or they decided that.
Mr. HUBERT. So you left the service in 1944?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you go then?
Mr. RUBY. Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you live with?
Mr. RUBY. The family.
Mr. HUBERT. And what did you do?
Mr. RUBY. And I started up this cedar chest business again.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have a trade name then?
Mr. RUBY. I called it Earl Products Co.
Mr. HUBERT. It was not a corporation?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any kind of a punchboard operation?
Mr. RUBY. No; that was before. That was the Spartan Novelty. Mine was
just selling—no, I sold some punchboards, that is right. I sold some
punchboards with my operation for about a year.
Mr. HUBERT. These were candy punchboards, were they?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Where you might win some candy, is that correct, if you
punched the right number?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they could win a box of candy or win a pen set, I think
it was.
Mr. HUBERT. What area did you operate in as to the Earl Products Co.?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I operated it through Earl Mail, more or less, through
advertising in the Billboard Magazine, and I shipped in, it wasn’t a
large operation, but I shipped out of State all the way across the
country. I don’t remember the States, but I did ship quite a few States
over the years.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were alone at the time?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, I was by myself then.
Mr. HUBERT. Did your brothers ultimately join you?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; as my brothers came out of the service, I took them in
and gave them a piece of the business. First Sam came out.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they invest?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or they just came in?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. They didn’t put up any money?
Mr. RUBY. When Sam came out, I gave him half interest. Then when my
oldest brother came out——
Mr. HUBERT. That is Jack?
Mr. RUBY. No; Hyman. And then I took him in. Then when Jack came out,
then I took him in. So we were all together for not too long because it
just wasn’t enough for all of us.
Mr. HUBERT. You all were sharing the profits?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Equally?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. It was not on a salary or commission basis?
Mr. RUBY. I think we were sharing that equally. I am quite sure.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us what happened to the company?
Mr. RUBY. Well, then my brother Hyman left us, and then there was Jack,
Sam, and myself left.
Mr. HUBERT. What did Hyman leave for? What was the reason for his
leaving?
Mr. RUBY. There just wasn’t enough money, and you know when there is
not enough money we have a few arguments in the family, so he decided
to leave.
Mr. HUBERT. What business did he go into?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t remember. I think he went himself in some company.
Mr. HUBERT. Then there were three of you. What happened then?
Mr. RUBY. Then my sister Eva had been in Dallas for, oh, a few years,
and she had been writing to Jack and telling him how good it was down
there.
Mr. HUBERT. What was she doing, do you recall?
Mr. RUBY. Running a nightclub. I think it was called the Silver Spur.
Mr. HUBERT. And then?
Mr. RUBY. So Jack and Sam had an argument, and so we just couldn’t get
along, so we decided to buy Jack out.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say you and Sam decided to do that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, yes, yes; and we then bought him out. I think we paid
him something like $14,000 or $15,000, 14,000 and some hundred dollars,
and he left for Dallas, and he remained there until the incident
happened.
Mr. HUBERT. When he had the argument with Sam which led to his leaving
the Earl Products Co., did he intend then to go to Dallas? Was that one
of the causes for his leaving?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know what was in his mind. I don’t remember. I just
don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he paid?
Mr. RUBY. We paid him a lump sum, about $14,000 or $15,000, so when he
left he had quite a bit of money.
Mr. HUBERT. In cash?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he had quite a bit of money.
Mr. HUBERT. And he left for Dallas shortly thereafter?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; very shortly thereafter he left.
Mr. HUBERT. That would have been what year, sir; about?
Mr. RUBY. I think 1947; 1947.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you keep in contact with him?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; we corresponded, not too often. We came up every few
years. Of course, he came up for my mother’s funeral in 1944. Then he
came up for my dad’s funeral.
Mr. HUBERT. He came from the service for your mother’s funeral, I
suppose?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is right. At that time he was in the service.
Mr. HUBERT. And your father died in what year?
Mr. RUBY. 1960.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that you and your brother Sam changed
your name from Rubenstein to Ruby by a court proceeding for that
purpose?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a coordinated decision between you and Sam?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You know, do you not, that Jack did the same thing about
the same time?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that coordinated with him, too?
Mr. RUBY. No; I don’t think so. In our conversations in telling him
that we were doing it, maybe he decided to do it, but I don’t know if
it had any bearing at all.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the reason for the change of name?
Mr. RUBY. Well, first, everybody called me Ruby, even in the service,
and wherever I went they called me Ruby, so that was one of the reasons
to change it.
Mr. HUBERT. After Jack left did you and Sam continue in business?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. For how long?
Mr. RUBY. For possibly 8 or 9 years, anyhow.
Mr. HUBERT. You still lived in Chicago at that time?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what was the cause of the breakup of the Earl
Products Co. which then consisted of you and Sam only, and of Sam’s
removal to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I didn’t like—he was supposed to handle the shop and
I was handling the office and the advertising, and by this time, when
I say “shop” you must understand we were now in the manufacturing
business.
Mr. HUBERT. What were you manufacturing?
Mr. RUBY. We were manufacturing aluminum salt and pepper shakers, key
chains, bottle openers, screw drivers, small hammers.
Mr. HUBERT. How large an operation was that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think our maximum sales there reached about a quarter
of a million dollars.
Mr. HUBERT. How many employees did you have at the maximum?
Mr. RUBY. Its maximum we had there was probably 40 at any given time.
Anyhow, he was supposed to run the shop and I was supposed to run the
office, and I didn’t think he was taking care of the shop the way he
should, and I told him several times, and finally he says, “Well, if
you can do better, you can take care of that yourself,” and he didn’t
report to work for almost a year.
In the meantime, I was giving him his check every week. So, finally I
decided after waiting that long that the only thing to do was dissolve
the partnership and buy him out.
Mr. HUBERT. How much did you pay him when you bought him out?
Mr. RUBY. I paid him a total of about $30,000.
Mr. HUBERT. And you say you actually paid him a weekly salary check?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Although he didn’t do any work at all?
Mr. RUBY. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. What was he doing as a matter of fact during that year?
Mr. RUBY. Nothing. He was just—just nothing.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t even see him do you mean?
Mr. RUBY. No; I didn’t see him for about almost a year.
Mr. HUBERT. And you made no effort to correct that situation?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; I talked and members of the family talked to him,
and finally in order to dissolve it, I even called Jack and had him
come up from Dallas to see if he could, you know, make peace in the
family, and he just couldn’t do it.
Mr. HUBERT. That would have been around 1954 or 1955?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; right in there.
Mr. HUBERT. Then when you bought out Jack, did you continue to operate
the Earl Products Co. alone?
Mr. RUBY. You mean Sam?
Mr. HUBERT. Sam I mean; yes.
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; I operated until 1959.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what happened to the company?
Mr. RUBY. Then I sold it.
Mr. HUBERT. To whom?
Mr. RUBY. To Herschel Oliff, and the reason I sold it was I was
manufacturing a line of novelties, and the Japan imports were just
cutting down my business and I could see the handwriting on the wall,
so I decided I had better get out while I can, which I did.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Then what did you do?
Mr. RUBY. Then I didn’t work for, oh, 6 or 8 months.
Mr. HUBERT. I assume you were living off of the profits?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he was paying me.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean the purchaser, Mr. Oliff, was paying you?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he gave me so much down and so much a week so I was
able to get along. Anyhow, at that time I became depressed and I was
thinking of doing away with myself, so I went over to the veterans
hospital in Chicago and talked to them over there, and they suggested I
come in there, which I did, and I stayed a few weeks.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you were hospitalized?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; they hospitalized me in the psychopathic ward there, and
I stayed there a week or two, and then I couldn’t see—there were so
many of us and they couldn’t, at least I didn’t think they were helping
me, so I left one day. I just up and walked out; but then I got sick
again.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you became depressed again?
Mr. RUBY. I became depressed again.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, just a few days.
Mr. HUBERT. So you went back?
Mr. RUBY. So I went back again. Then I decided well, the only way I can
help myself, I mean I can do myself any good, is get out of this place
and get a job.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you married then?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, yes; sure.
Mr. HUBERT. That was to your first wife then?
Mr. RUBY. No, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Your second wife?
Mr. RUBY. Second wife, and I said I’ve got my family you know, I had
better take care of them. The only thing that will help me, at least
that was my thinking, is to go out and get a job and maybe that is what
I need, you know, because I felt that I wouldn’t be able to hold a job
or something. Anyhow those were my thoughts. So, I went out and got a
job for Worldwide Music in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the nature of that work?
Mr. RUBY. They sell and place juke boxes.
The Seeberg Agency and the Rockola Distributors, a pretty big company,
nice people, and I worked there about a year.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your specific job?
Mr. RUBY. I was, I would say assistant manager. I supervised the other
men and the servicemen.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t actually make the contacts with the taverns?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, I made some of those; yes, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the machines were solely music machines?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. No slot machines?
Mr. RUBY. No, no, no. No slot machines. This is one of the better rated
companies in this field, very nice people.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay?
Mr. RUBY. I stayed with them about a year. Then my best friend’s
brother, my best friend’s name is Mike Nemzin, his brother’s name is
George Marcus, that is his name legally.
Mr. HUBERT. They have different names but the fact is they are brothers?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is right. That is why I wanted to mention that. He
owned——
Mr. HUBERT. When you say “he” who do you mean?
Mr. RUBY. George Marcus; I am now speaking of.
Mr. HUBERT. The brother of your best friend?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. In fact, he was instrumental in my getting the other
job for Worldwide Music because he knew one of the—he was in the dry
cleaning business, George Marcus has today one plant in Marion, Ind.
and one plant in Benton Harbor, Mich., and has a brother-in-law running
each one. And we had been friends for about 25 or 30 years, and he
approached me with the idea of going into business with him in another
cleaning plant if we could locate a good one. You know, buy a going
business, of course, and I was very much interested.
Mr. HUBERT. That is Marcus?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; Marcus I am speaking of.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, your best friend was his brother?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. But you were friendly with him for 25 years?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; yes. In fact, he originally helped me get started
when I first came out of service. I had no money to speak of.
Mr. HUBERT. That is Marcus?
Mr. RUBY. Marcus, and he lent me $500, I think, to get started.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, go on and tell us what happened?
Mr. RUBY. And Marcus and I talked over the possibility of going into
the cleaning business together, and he being so successful, I was very
happy that he even, you know, came to me and was interested in my
running the plant, because he is more or less a silent partner.
So, sure enough, we checked out a few plants and then we happened to
hear of this plant in Detroit, Cobo Cleaners, that is the plant. It
was originally owned by the mayor of Detroit. And we heard about this
plant and we went to Detroit, checked that out and checked out the
possibilities, and we decided it was a pretty good deal. And so we
bought that as equal partners. And that was in 1961, October of 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you pay for it?
Mr. RUBY. We paid for it, for the real estate and the business,
$120,000.
Mr. HUBERT. And you each put up half?
Mr. RUBY. Yes. Of course, we only paid so much down, you know. We
didn’t pay the full price, of course.
Mr. HUBERT. And that is the business you are in now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you run the operation?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; and he is more or less silent. He lives in Glenview,
Ill., a suburb of Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. And as I understand it, he owns these other plants that you
mentioned?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.