Mr. HUBERT. Of what?
Mrs. RICH. Vag—vagrancy. Narcotics, prostitution, and anything else
they could dream up. This is very shortly after I had threatened to go
and bring suit against Mr. Ruby. I was told I might find the climate
outside of Dallas a little more to my liking if I didn’t take the
advice of the police department.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you that?
Mrs. RICH. The time I went down and wanted to bring charges against
Ruby for assault and battery, I was told not to, and at that time I was
also advised—I was not told to leave the city or anything like that,
but that it was nice in Chicago, for instance, that time of year.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think you said that you did not remember the name of
the man.
Mrs. RICH. I cannot remember the name of the detective that I spoke to;
no.
Mr. HUBERT. But he was the detective on the police force?
Mrs. RICH. He was. Jack Ruby is very well known in Dallas. A little too
well known.
Mr. HUBERT. What do you mean by that?
Mrs. RICH. Just a personal opinion. I believe—now, this is not a fact,
this is just talk, this is just personal opinion—I believe at the time
of the—am I naming it correctly—Oswald assassination, it was claimed
that Ruby got in there pretending to be a reporter. Am I correct that
that was in the printed page?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, what comment have you got to make to that?
Mrs. RICH. Anyone that made that statement would be either a damn liar
or a damn fool.
Mr. HUBERT. Why?
Mrs. RICH. There is no possible way that Jack Ruby could walk in Dallas
and be mistaken for a newspaper reporter, especially in the police
department. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that your opinion?
Mrs. RICH. That is not my personal opinion. That is a fact.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, on what do you base it?
Mrs. RICH. Ye gods, I don’t think there is a cop in Dallas that doesn’t
know Jack Ruby. He practically lived at that station. They lived in his
place. Even the lowest patrolman on the beat. He is a real fanatic on
that, anyway.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say even the lowest patrolman on the beat, what do
you mean?
Mrs. RICH. Everybody from the patrolmen on the beat in uniform to, I
guess everybody with the exception of Captain Fritz, used to come in
there, knew him personally. He used to practically live at the station.
I am not saying that Captain Fritz didn’t know him. I am saying he was
never—I have never seen him in the Carousel. He has always been, I
think, a little too far above things for that.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you have seen other high-ranking officers there?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; I have.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you name them, please?
Mrs. RICH. I would if I could. I would be only too glad to.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you don’t know?
Mrs. RICH. I cannot recall names, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you know they were high-ranking officers?
Mrs. RICH. At that time I knew them. Two years from now, if somebody
asked me your name, I would remember I knew you, I had seen you, but I
could not tell him your name.
Mr. HUBERT. You remember Captain Fritz’ name.
Mrs. RICH. Everybody remembers Captain Fritz. Will Fritz is quite a
famous man. And I would say he is of the highest integrity. Probably
the only one I know of on the police department that is.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you mentioned in one interview you had with the
FBI that you had some information that a contact in regard to this
gunrunning business was to be made at the Hotel Nueva Gallina in the
city of Guadalajara, Mexico. Is that correct?
Mrs. RICH. To the best of my knowledge; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you get the information from?
Mrs. RICH. In the conversation at the second or third meeting.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you mention that to the FBI people in any of your
interviews prior to January?
Mrs. RICH. Not that I recall. I never talked about it prior to the time
I went there.
Mr. HUBERT. You spoke to the FBI in November and again in December.
Mrs. RICH. Let’s put it this way. When you say prior to me going to the
FBI—I went to the FBI the first time I believe in Oakland. And I do not
recall whether or not I told them the first time or the second time
about that. Whichever time I told them, I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. I think it is a fact, is it not, that you contacted the FBI
in Brookline, Mass., sometime in January to tell them that you had been
going through some things of yours and had additional information.
Mrs. RICH. I believe it was in January. It was in Boston, by the way.
Mr. HUBERT. It was in Boston?
Mrs. RICH. Yes. I believe it was Mr. Stoddard I talked to.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the additional information?
Mrs. RICH. Right now I do not even remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall that you found something among your things
which indicated that the contact during the gunrunning proposition was
supposed to be at this hotel in Guadalajara?
Mrs. RICH. I don’t remember what it was I turned up. I think it was
then—I know I turned up an address book with a telephone number in it.
I forgot whether that was here or in Oakland. And some cards. I know
what it was. It was on the back of a business card. That’s right. It
was on the back of a business card I turned that up. Yes; it was when I
called them—because I had gone through my strongbox after my stuff had
got here.
Mr. HUBERT. But the information that you had gotten concerning the
contact point as being in this hotel in Guadalajara, that information
was obtained by you at one of the meetings that you have just described.
Mrs. RICH. It was obtained there; yes. And if I remember, it had eluded
me when I first talked to them. And if I am not mistaken—I should have
brought it—I have it on the back of a business card at home, that
I turned up among some of my old business cards from Dallas in an
envelope. Now, whether or not I had recalled that and told them at the
first meeting or whether it was part of the additional information I
don’t remember. But it seems to me I turned that business card up and
did not remember that at the first talking with the FBI.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Whose name was on the front of the business card?
Mrs. RICH. Some advertising agency. It was just some card I marked it
down on.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you in the advertising business in 1961?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; I was.
Mr. HUBERT. Where?
Mrs. RICH. In Boston. I handled the National Automatic Merchandising
Association NAMA Week.
Mr. HUBERT. What part of 1961?
Mrs. RICH. The first week in April we had the Governor proclaim it.
Mr. HUBERT. Who said that the contact was going to be at this hotel in
Guadalajara?
Mrs. RICH. I don’t know which one said it, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember at what meeting this was said?
Mrs. RICH. I believe at the third—the second. I wouldn’t swear, but I
think the third.
Mr. HUBERT. It was definitely not the first.
Mrs. RICH. No; definitely not the first. Either the second or the third.
Mr. HUBERT. It was at the second that you had raised your price, I
think, to $25,000.
Mrs. RICH. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was either that meeting or the third meeting that
you got the information about the contact point being in this hotel.
Mrs. RICH. I am not sure which one it was, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You indicated that you did not know where this house was
located in Dallas.
Mrs. RICH. I couldn’t give you a street; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us a general area of Dallas?
Mrs. RICH. I am sorry, sir, I wish I could. I would recognize the house
if I saw it. I cannot explain the human mind to you. Why is it that
sometimes if you don’t want to remember something, you can block things
off? It was something distasteful to me. I have perhaps not been a
model person but——
Mr. HUBERT. Have you heard from this man Dave since you left Dallas?
Mrs. RICH. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Does the name Dave Cherry mean anything to you?
Mrs. RICH. That’s it. I have been wracking my brain for that name. A
swell-looking fellow—crewcut, young, real college-looking type.
Mr. HUBERT. How long had you known him?
Mrs. RICH. A couple of months.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you meet him?
Mrs. RICH. University Club. I believe I met him there. Just precisely
where I met him I don’t know. I think the University Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that prior to the time your husband came to Dallas?
Mrs. RICH. I don’t remember if I met him before or after, to be
truthful.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, he was the man who made the contact.
Mrs. RICH. Again, as I told the FBI, I will swear about 99 percent of
it that he was the one.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you went there—he was present at three meetings.
Mrs. RICH. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And you knew him for 2 months prior to that.
Mrs. RICH. That is correct—about.
Mr. HUBERT. Why should there be any doubt in your mind whatsoever?
Mrs. RICH. Because somewhere another face keeps popping up. And don’t
ask me to go into it, because I could not if I tried.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you think it might not be Dave Cherry?
Mrs. RICH. No; that it is. I am about 1 percent unsure. And I told the
FBI that. But that is the only face I can put with that. And I keep
putting Dave in that car and over there with us.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you advise your husband about being tailed recently?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; my husband is aware of it.