Mrs. RICH. Meaning the police department of Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. What particular individuals?
Mrs. RICH. I don’t recall exactly who sent them up. I cannot remember
the guy’s name. Really. I don’t believe he is any longer with them, I
understand.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, some person from the police department came to
get you the next day?
Mrs. RICH. Yes. Subsequently, one Mr. Paul Rayburn, detective,
juvenile, came to pick me up, along with his partner, Detective House.
Well, we managed to find a place to live. And Paul suggested he had a
friend. And did I know anything about bartending; well, I did.
Mr. HUBERT. What place did he find you to live in? Do you remember the
address?
Mrs. RICH. No; I don’t. It was a rooming house. Actually, it was a
private home more or less cut into small apartments. I believe it was a
three-room apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. And how long did you live there?
Mrs. RICH. Here is where we are going to get into difficulty. I don’t
remember. I cannot remember the length of time or addresses I lived at.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you live at more than one place prior to the time Mr.
Perrin joined you in July?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember any of the addresses of the places where
you lived?
Mrs. RICH. Well, I remember I lived—when Mr. Perrin joined me I was
living on Oak Street, I believe. Then we moved to another street, and I
don’t remember where it was.
Mr. HUBERT. How many places do you suppose you lived in prior to the
time Mr. Perrin joined you?
Mrs. RICH. Two, I think.
Mr. HUBERT. One was on Oak Street?
Mrs. RICH. That was the one—let’s put it this way. Two including the
one I was living at when he joined me.
Mr. HUBERT. And one was on Oak Street?
Mrs. RICH. Yes. That was the big apartment building.
Mr. HUBERT. And the other was a rooming house?
Mrs. RICH. Well, I call it a rooming house. Perhaps I have named it
incorrectly. I would say a private home cut up into small apartments.
Mr. HUBERT. But you don’t remember where that was?
Mrs. RICH. I cannot remember. I can remember the house. I would
probably know it if I see it. It is outside the city a little ways. It
wasn’t right in the heart of downtown.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the name of the lady who owned the house?
Mrs. RICH. No; I don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the other was an apartment building, you say.
Mrs. RICH. Yes. I believe—now, put this as supposed—I believe it was
1136 Oak Street, but I am not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. So that both places were on Oak Street?
Mrs. RICH. No, no. The one on Oak, I think, that was the address. I
don’t recall what the first one was that Mr. Rayburn put me into.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s see if I get this straight. You lived in a boarding
house which was a house cut into small units, you say, and you don’t
know where that was located.
Mrs. RICH. No; that is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And how long did you stay there, do you suppose?
Mrs. RICH. Oh, maybe 3 or 4 weeks, 2 weeks, 3 weeks.
Mr. HUBERT. After which, as I understand, you then went to the larger
apartment house.
Mrs. RICH. Yes; on Oak Street, apartment row, where all these big
luxury apartments are.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was on Oak Street?
Mrs. RICH. Oak Street.
Mr. HUBERT. And you stayed there until Mr. Perrin joined you?
Mrs. RICH. Yes. And for a while after. Until we found a place
comparable but at less money.
Mr. HUBERT. And where was that?
Mrs. RICH. That I don’t remember. Junios Street. I remember it didn’t
have a pool—it was a big brick apartment. Again, all of these places I
can close my eyes and picture. But I cannot tell you. I can’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you live there with Mr. Perrin?
Mrs. RICH. At the last address that I don’t remember?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; ma’am.
Mrs. RICH. Probably 3 or 4 months. I think we left Dallas in October
and went to New Orleans—either late October or early November.
Mr. HUBERT. What year?
Mrs. RICH. Of 1962. Now, this is where I am getting confused. It had to
have been 1961. This is where I get confused. When I stated before that
it was May of 1962, it wasn’t. It was May of 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. Why do you make that correction now?
Mrs. RICH. Well, it couldn’t have possibly been in 1962.
Mr. HUBERT. Why?
Mrs. RICH. My husband died in August of 1962, in New Orleans. And we
had been there over a year.
Mr. HUBERT. You had been in New Orleans over a year by the time he died?
Mrs. RICH. Almost a year. Between New Orleans and Boston, and Miami.
You see——
Mr. HUBERT. When did you leave Dallas, then?
Mrs. RICH. It would be October of 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. That you left Dallas?
Mrs. RICH. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And all of these previous dates, May and July, you now wish
to correct——
Mrs. RICH. To 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. And you lived with Mr. Perrin after leaving Dallas in
October of 1962—of 1961?
Mrs. RICH. 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. You lived in New Orleans most of the time?
Mrs. RICH. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he died there?
Mrs. RICH. That is correct. You see, it was New Orleans and Boston.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, I had asked you when you had first met Jack
Ruby, and I think you were beginning to tell us when we got into the
question of your residences. So now will you tell us how you met Jack
Ruby, and when?
Mrs. RICH. The when I could not tell you exactly. Some time during
May or June, I believe. Mr. Ruby’s records could tell you, due to the
fact that I believe he probably took social security out. But the how
was that Mr. Rayburn took me up and got me the job up there. Detective
Rayburn.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, how long after you had arrived in Dallas did you meet
Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. RICH. Again, the time element eludes me. It could be anywhere from
2 or 3 weeks to a month.
Mr. HUBERT. It is your thought that it might be that long after you
arrived in Dallas under the circumstances that you told us about?
Mrs. RICH. I don’t know. A week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks. The last few years
time has become nothing for me.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, what was your occupation with Ruby, and where
was it?
Mrs. RICH. I was bartender at the Carousel Lounge, on Commercial—well,
the main street in Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. Commerce?
Mrs. RICH. Commerce.
Mr. HUBERT. What were some of the names of the other people who worked
with you at that time?
Mrs. RICH. Buddy King—I should say his professional name is Buddy
King—Robert J. Stewart. I am trying to think of the name of that MC. I
have been trying to think of it, and I cannot. Ray something or other,
I believe. They came and they went.
Mr. HUBERT. How long were you employed by Ruby altogether?
Mrs. RICH. Probably a couple of months.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you work with Ruby after your husband joined you?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you work until you left Dallas?
Mrs. RICH. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. How long before leaving Dallas did you quit the job at
Ruby’s?
Mrs. RICH. Possibly a couple of months, 3 months. I wasn’t in Dallas
more than maybe 5 months, 4 months at the most, 4 or 5 months at the
most.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you say bartender, what do you mean? What were
your actual duties?
Mrs. RICH. I was actually a bartender. I worked behind the bar mixing
and serving drinks.
Mr. HUBERT. What sort of drinks?
Mrs. RICH. Whatever was allowed. Actually, you are not allowed to serve
mixed drinks there. We do to special customers. You are not allowed to
serve hard liquor. But I served beer, and wine, of course, and your
setups.
Mr. HUBERT. What customers did you serve hard liquor to?
Mrs. RICH. Whomever I was told to.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know their names?
Mrs. RICH. I couldn’t quote you names, perhaps.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you to serve them?
Mrs. RICH. Mr. Ruby. It was a standing order. For a particular group of
people. Then whenever he would come in and say, “This is private stock
stuff,” that would mean for me to go where I knew the hard liquor was
and get it out, and get it ready for the people in his private office.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the particular group—who did it consist of?
Mrs. RICH. The police department.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you saying that Jack Ruby told you that when any member
of the police department came in, that there was a standing order that
you could serve them hard liquor?
Mrs. RICH. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And are you also saying that you did so?
Mrs. RICH. I am saying that I needed a job and did so.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the names of any particular officers to
whom you served hard liquor?