The testimony of George Senator was taken at 8:35 a.m., on April 22,
1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. Burt W.
Griffin and Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s
Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Senator, you will understand that this is a
continuation of the deposition which was begun yesterday, and that
Mr. Griffin and I, who are examining you, are doing so under the same
authority and under the same conditions as were indicated to you at
the beginning of the deposition yesterday. Likewise, I take it that
you understand, unless I hear to the contrary that you are still under
the same oath which you took at the commencement of the testimony on
yesterday; is that correct?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, at the end of the session on yesterday we reached the
point where on Sunday, November 24, you had left your apartment or you
were leaving your apartment, as I recall it. Your testimony was that
Mr. Ruby had already left. I think you fixed, but just for the purpose
of continuity at the moment, would you now try to fix the approximate
time at which he left?
Mr. SENATOR. You mean when I left?
Mr. HUBERT. No; when he left.
Mr. SENATOR. To me, I thought it was somewheres between 10:15 and
10:30. Of course, I found out hereafter in the courtroom that I was
wrong, but this at that time was the approximate figure that I had that
he left.
Mr. HUBERT. You told us yesterday that whatever time it was, your
thought was that it was approximately three-quarters of an hour after
he received the call from Little Lynn?
Mr. SENATOR. No. At the time he left—in my courtroom statement there I
fixed the time at approximately 10:15 or 10:30. That is where I thought
he had left around that time.
Mr. HUBERT. I ask you now to fix it not in point of clock time but in
point of how many hours or minutes it was, or parts of hours it was,
after the long distance call from Little Lynn in which you understood
that she asked for $25.
Mr. SENATOR. I would have to say it would probably be approximately
somewhere, I imagine somewhere between three-quarters to an hour. Now
this is about as close as I can think of it.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you base that upon two considerations, at least
that you stated to us yesterday. That he was not yet dressed.
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. When Little Lynn called?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And that he got dressed and cleaned up, washed up?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And then spent some short, relatively short period of time
pacing around, as you said?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Before leaving. And that you estimated yesterday I think it
was about three-quarters of an hour.
Mr. SENATOR. Three-quarters of an hour. I mean this is just an
estimation.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when he left he told you he was taking the dog Sheba
down to the club?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he made no other comment?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say what time he was coming back?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was no mention of anything at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, what did you do next? How long did you stay in the
apartment?
Mr. SENATOR. After he left I’m still sitting around in my shorts yet.
I’m not dressed or not washed or anything outside of having a cup of
coffee. I had coffee.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have TV on?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I’ll tell you, after he left I was reading the Sunday
paper.
Mr. HUBERT. And you cut off the TV?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I didn’t have the TV going. I was just reading. I
read the paper, and from there I washed, shaved, got dressed, and took
a ride downtown, and as I say, this place, the Eatwell——
Mr. HUBERT. How long after Ruby left did you leave?
Mr. SENATOR. I would say it was about three-quarters of an hour, I
guess, something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you went directly to the Eatwell?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You used your Volkswagen, I think you said?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you park, do you remember?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I parked right by the Eatwell.
Mr. HUBERT. There is a parking lot there?
Mr. SENATOR. No; it is right on the street. You know Sunday there is no
difficulty.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, then take it from there. Tell us what happened.
Mr. SENATOR. So I went in there. I sat down there. Now, this is the
place that I go every morning, you know, rather Sunday or Monday
because I don’t like to sit indoors. So I went there and had a cup of
coffee. Then the first thing—then I had another cup of coffee. Now, on
my second cup of coffee I heard the girl, the waitress—now where she
got her information from I don’t know. It had to be either telephone or
radio, I don’t know which. Maybe they had the radio on.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you notice any kind of a radio of any type in the
restaurant?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they usually have any?
Mr. SENATOR. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, what happened?
Mr. SENATOR. Not to my knowledge. The first time she said she heard
that somebody shot Oswald.
Mr. HUBERT. Was she speaking to you?
Mr. SENATOR. No, no, it was loud; but it happened to be she was near me.
Mr. HUBERT. There were other people in the place?
Mr. SENATOR. Not a lot. There were others you know, the usual morning
Sunday business in the restaurant is sort of minute. So what I did when
I heard that, I called up the lawyer. I was going to give him the news.
I figured he would probably be sitting home, you know, Jim Martin, who
happens to be a friend of mine. But when I called him. I spoke to his
daughter and she told me her dad and mother were in church. Dad would
be home in half an hour. I said all right, maybe I’ll call him back.
A short while later, the same girl, the same waitress hollered out that
the man—she wasn’t pronouncing the name right, the Carousel Club, but
I sort of got the drift of the name and she hollered Jack Ruby killed
Oswald. This is what she come up with later.
Mr. HUBERT. How much later?
Mr. SENATOR. I would probably say about 5 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. But it was after you had called Martin?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; after I called Martin.
Mr. HUBERT. You called Martin right away?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I was going to tell him that. I didn’t think he would
be—of course, I didn’t know he was going to church or anything.
Mr. HUBERT. He is a close friend of yours?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes. He is an attorney there; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, then?
Mr. SENATOR. Then when I heard that again, then I went up to see him.
Of course, I froze in that chair there. I said my God, I didn’t know
what in the world to think. Then I went up there and I no sooner got
there, he had just got there, I don’t know, I think a moment or two
before me. His wife and daughter had just come out of church.
Mr. HUBERT. You went to his home, you mean?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I went to his house. I told Jim and he said, “I heard
already. I saw it on TV.”
Mr. HUBERT. He was already at his house, you said?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; he was home already.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after your phone call to him do you suppose you
got to his house?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, he lived quite a ways. I would probably say it was
about a 20-minute ride.
Mr. HUBERT. You left the Eatwell just as soon as the girl announced
that the man who had shot Oswald was Jack Ruby?
Mr. SENATOR. I finished my coffee. I had about a half a cup left,
something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not attempt to call Martin again?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I didn’t call him. I just went direct. I figured if he
wasn’t home I’d wait for him.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your reason for wanting to see Martin?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, after all, this was my roommate. No particular
reason. I happened to know he was a lawyer.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to him as a lawyer or as a friend?
Mr. SENATOR. As a friend, as a friend. So I went up there and said,
“Jim, what in the world are we going to do?”
Mr. HUBERT. I take it from what you said a moment ago, “After all, he
was my roommate”, that you felt some concern for yourself.
Mr. SENATOR. I’ll tell you how I felt. I knew after this had happened,
I thought it was best that I volunteered than somebody come after me.
Mr. HUBERT. You thought that somebody would be coming after you?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, eventually they would have to. Eventually somebody
would have to be coming after me. After all, I was his roommate.
Mr. HUBERT. I assume you were going to see Martin really to seek his
advice as a lawyer as well as a friend?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; what to do. What should I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that true of the phone call as well?
Mr. SENATOR. Sir?
Mr. HUBERT. Was that motivation true of the phone call to Martin as
well?
Mr. SENATOR. No. The first call, I was just going to tell him that I
heard that Oswald was shot, which the girl told me. But on the second
time—I didn’t——
Mr. HUBERT. You realized your position at that time as being his
roommate and that gave you concern because you thought that the police
might be picking you up?
Mr. SENATOR. Sure.
Mr. HUBERT. And you thought you had better have the advice of a lawyer?
Mr. SENATOR. To ask him what to do. Should I go down there or what?
Mr. HUBERT. What did you do in fact?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, we went down there. We went down there and, of
course, we had a tough time getting in. When we got down the place was
just jammed.
Mr. HUBERT. How long were you at Martin’s house, speaking to him?
Mr. SENATOR. I would say maybe 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes something
like that.
Mr. HUBERT. And did you in effect ask him what you should do?
Mr. SENATOR. I asked him what I should do and I thought it would be
best to go down. He thought so, too.
Mr. HUBERT. It was your suggestion that it would be best to go down, or
his.
Mr. SENATOR. I think it was a combination of both.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case, within about 5 minutes the decision had
been made?
Mr. SENATOR. 5 or 10, something like that. I’m not sure of the exact
time.
Mr. HUBERT. The decision had been made to go down to the police
department. Now, what was the purpose of going down there?
Mr. SENATOR. I went down there, I thought it would be best if I go down
there than to be picked up, because after all, I’m his roommate and I
know they are going to eventually pick me up, because I was living with
him.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the idea was that you were going to go down
there and say, “Now look, I’m George Senator. I was a roommate of Jack
Ruby’s and do you have anything to ask of me?” That was it?
Mr. SENATOR. I would probably say it was in the nature of that; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Incidentally, a moment ago you said that you were sleeping
with Jack Ruby, and in some circles sleeping with someone is——
Mr. SENATOR. I said I was what?
Mr. HUBERT. You were sleeping with Jack Ruby.
Mr. SENATOR. I was sleeping with him?
Mr. HUBERT. I think you said that.
Mr. SENATOR. I never said that, never.
Mr. HUBERT. I misunderstood you then.
Mr. SENATOR. You sure did.