Mr. HUBERT. No; I am not trying to get you off. I am trying to get the
facts, so let’s approach it this way. How long before the Little Lynn
call would you estimate it was that Jack woke up?
Mr. SENATOR. I couldn’t estimate the time, but I don’t think he was up
too long.
Mr. HUBERT. You say he had gone to the bathroom and that he had cooked
his breakfast and that he had gotten dressed?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he wasn’t dressed at the time Little Lynn called.
Mr. HUBERT. He was not dressed at the time?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he was still in his shorts. I think he was still in
his shorts.
Mr. HUBERT. If you could help us on this it would be valuable for us
to know about how long prior to the Little Lynn call did Jack actually
get up. If you want to break that into segments as to how long it was
before he started breakfast, and so forth, well, do that too. It may be
helpful to you and it would be to us. I can help you if you want along
these lines. Did the Little Lynn call come after he had finished his
breakfast?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I think that call came in before he had breakfast. I
think it did. I think it was before breakfast. I am not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. He answered the phone as I understand it?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When he got up he went to the bathroom?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did the call come while he was in the bathroom?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so.
Mr. HUBERT. After he left the bathroom he went to fix breakfast as I
understand it.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know if the call came in before or after he went
to the bathroom. It was one of the two. I don’t know which. As I say, I
would have to twist it.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t want you to twist it or to guess.
Mr. SENATOR. I have to guess. I have got to guess.
Mr. HUBERT. You have got to give your best estimation.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know. If I don’t know I can’t answer it because I
have got to guess on this. You put me to guesswork.
Mr. HUBERT. No; we don’t want to have you guess. We want your best
estimation of the passage of time. If you don’t know, we certainly
don’t want you to guess. But you were there and we weren’t. Therefore,
we would like to know if you know. We don’t want you to guess.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know. I don’t know the times.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me give you another approach to assist you on this. You
said that you might have awakened anywhere from 8 to 9 yourself, is
that correct?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you think that it was as long as 1 hour after you awoke
that the call came from Little Lynn?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. You know this is very complicated
when you try to make a timepiece out of this. It really is. I mean
especially if you are not watching the time and don’t know the time. It
is just a complicated thing trying to place a time together.
Mr. HUBERT. That is true, but on the other hand when we have a fixed
time, sometimes we can relate events to that time in terms of hours and
half hours and so forth. That is what I am asking you to do now.
Mr. SENATOR. You see when you are relating all three there, in the
relation of all three here from the time I got up to the time Jack got
up to the time he had his breakfast, from the time that Little Lynn
called I would be jamming all these things into maybe a half hour to an
hour in differences, and they would all almost clog together because
I would have to guess at all these, because, mind you, this wasn’t a
great expanse of hours. This is why I say I will be guessing and have
to be wrong. Mind you from the time that I wake up at 8 o’clock in the
morning, supposedly around 8 or maybe it was 8:30 or 9, I have to have
the answers, supposed to have the answers for what time I woke up, what
time Jack got up, Little Lynn in the short span of hours, and it is
hard to break these things down and be accurate.
Mr. HUBERT. We understand that, and the purpose is to find out if it is
possible to know, and if your answer to us is that you can’t tell us,
we don’t want you to guess.
Mr. SENATOR. I can’t tell you. The reason it is hard to tell you,
because I would have to guess at all these and I have no hours. It was
such a short span of hours, I would probably assume this whole thing
would consummate maybe in what, approximately 2 hours, whatever it may
be, maybe 2½ hours, I don’t know. Now, you know you have got to jam
hours in for these three things to fit, and I can’t jam them together
to make them fit.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s see if we can’t fix sequence of events instead of
trying to fix hours. You got up first.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And Jack got up next.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then another fixed event is the time that he went to the
toilet. That came next, didn’t it? He went to the bathroom?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then he fixed himself some breakfast.
Mr. SENATOR. Now you have asked me if he fixed breakfast first or the
telephone call, I mean her call.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember which came first. Now I am guessing that
the call came first. I am not sure. I can’t relate to be sure right now.
Mr. HUBERT. As to the sequence of those two events, we now know what
your recollection is, and that is that it could have been before or it
could have been after.
Mr. SENATOR. I just don’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any event, he certainly dressed after he got the
call, is that correct?
Mr. SENATOR. And after breakfast.
Mr. HUBERT. And after breakfast?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then after he dressed he paced about some?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, at least we have the sequence of events so far as we
are able to put them together.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. We also know, you see, Mr. Senator, that as to one
sequence, you don’t know. I am not critical of you because you don’t
know, but we weren’t aware that you didn’t know until right now.
Mr. SENATOR. As I say, I mean when you take these four incidents and
try to, you know, try to jam them all into this short span of hours, I
just can’t break it down and be right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now let’s get to this. Was Jack normally a fast dresser or
would you care to estimate whether it took him——
Mr. SENATOR. No; Jack was never a fast dresser or never a fast washer.
He took his time. In other words, if I wanted to compare us, I could
dress five times as fast as he could or shave or anything else that
much quicker than he could.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say that normally it took him a half hour to get
dressed and shaved?
Mr. SENATOR. A half hour to get dressed and shaved? I would probably
assume it would take something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. And do you think it took him that long on this morning?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know if it took him that long.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case he did dress and you would think that that
took him a half an hour?
Mr. SENATOR. I would only have to guess. I can’t say.
Mr. HUBERT. Normally it would have?
Mr. SENATOR. I couldn’t assume the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Normally it would take him a half hour?
Mr. SENATOR. I would so surmise that it would.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did this pacing go on after he got dressed? It
may have been a matter of only a couple of minutes, but if it was more
than that, I think you would know it. I think if it was a half hour you
would know it.
Mr. SENATOR. I would say that he paced back and forth 5 or 10 minutes.
I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Was it at that point that he left?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say anything upon leaving?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say?
Mr. SENATOR. He said, “George, I am taking the dog down to the club.”
Mr. HUBERT. Anything else?
Mr. SENATOR. That was it, and out he went.
Mr. HUBERT. He was fully dressed?
Mr. SENATOR. He was fully dressed.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you describe how he was dressed?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, he wore a hat, wore a suit and a shirt and tie.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say when he was coming back?
Mr. SENATOR. No; that is the only words he said when he walked out.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you hear him speak to Elnora Pitts on Sunday morning
over the telephone?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I didn’t.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know who Elnora Pitts is?
Mr. SENATOR. It is a colored maid. No; I have heard that incident
before, but I don’t remember this at all. I just don’t remember if he
did or not. I can’t, in other words, I can’t refresh my mind whatsoever
that Elnora called. Now, I could be wrong on this, but my mind is not
fresh for that long.
Mr. HUBERT. Would it have been possible that you were in a part of the
house or outside the house maybe?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I wasn’t out.
Mr. HUBERT. You never left the house?
Mr. SENATOR. I was in my shorts all the while, unless I—no, I don’t
even know. Maybe I could have been in the bathroom. I am not even sure.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case you have no recollection of Elnora calling?
Mr. SENATOR. I do not remember at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it her custom to call when she was coming out there?
Mr. SENATOR. I think he—I don’t know, but I know that he has driven by
to tell her to come up and clean the apartment sometimes or something
of that nature. Now, I know he did that one time, but I don’t know if
it is his custom to have her call or not. Maybe it had been, maybe it
hadn’t been. I don’t know on that.
Mr. HUBERT. I know I am asking you for another estimate, but I would
like to know what your view of it is. That is how long after Karen
Bennett called did Jack leave the house?
Mr. SENATOR. Who? Oh, Little Lynn?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Well, Jack was still in his shorts then when she called.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes?
Mr. SENATOR. This I do remember.
Mr. HUBERT. He had to dress?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But you are not sure whether he had fixed breakfast or not?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know which came first, if she called or he fixed
breakfast first.
Mr. HUBERT. Leaving those aside, all I was asking was whether or not
you could give us an estimate of the time from when Little Lynn called
until he told you “I am leaving and I am going out and take this dog to
the club.” Have you any idea at all? If you don’t, tell us.
Mr. SENATOR. Wait, wait, what time she called?
Mr. HUBERT. No; the time interval between when she called and when he
left.
Mr. SENATOR. I will make a wild guess. I would say it was at least
three quarters, it must have been about three quarters of an hour.
Mr. HUBERT. On what do you base it?
Mr. SENATOR. I am just guessing. I can’t base it on anything. I am only
guessing.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it quite guessing? You knew he had to dress.
Mr. SENATOR. Sure you have got to dress.
Mr. HUBERT. So that took up some time.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; had to wash.
Mr. HUBERT. And you also say that he paced up and down for some little
interval of time.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.