Mr. SENATOR. You know when you say “worse,” I don’t know how to
put words together, you know, in expressions, the expression of an
individual’s face.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me show you what I mean. Perhaps you can help me when I
tell you what I have in mind. You have told us earlier that you thought
that his condition on Saturday morning was worse than it was on Friday
night and early Saturday morning.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think the expression you used, “the thing was getting
at him,” so that you formed the impression that the condition was
worsening, isn’t that correct? Is that a fair statement?
Mr. SENATOR. That is the way it looked; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now I ask you if you will give us a comparison.
Mr. SENATOR. I know what you are talking about, but I don’t know how to
compare these things, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it worsening? Was it getting to him more? Did it seem
to be getting to him more Saturday night as opposed to 12 hours earlier
roughly Saturday morning?
Mr. SENATOR. I would probably say it was of the same nature or
something like that. It wasn’t good, because for me to try to express,
and I don’t know how to express a facial nature. It is just hard for
me to put in words. If you take the complete facial expression and the
eyes and all that, I am not a connoisseur at just being able to express
these things, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. No; I am just asking you for another comparison because
you had given us a previous one, and I thought that another comparison
between another period, two others periods, would be useful if you
could give it to us, and that is all. I gather from you that your
general impression was that there had not been much change in his
condition over what it was on Saturday morning.
Mr. SENATOR. I will say something in the same nature.
Mr. HUBERT. That it was of the same nature?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall what the nature of the conversation was
between you two that night?
Mr. SENATOR. No; because when I walked in, he was just about on his way
out. I asked him if he ate. I told him I bought groceries. He said,
“Well, I ate already.” He ate.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after you arrived did he leave?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, God, within 5 minutes. It was just that short, that
fast, and out he went. Now, I don’t know where his visitation was. I
don’t know if he went to see his sister.
Mr. HUBERT. He didn’t tell you where he was going?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Then or ever?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he didn’t tell me at all where he was going.
Mr. HUBERT. He never did tell you later?
Mr. SENATOR. No; and I didn’t ask him.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you don’t know where?
Mr. SENATOR. No; because when I went home, you know, when I got home I
went to bed. I was going to bed.
Mr. HUBERT. And you went to bed about 10:30?
Mr. SENATOR. I would say about half an hour later, maybe around 11.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what time he came in?
Mr. SENATOR. No; because I wasn’t awake.
Mr. HUBERT. The next time you saw him?
Mr. SENATOR. Was Sunday morning.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you awaken on Sunday morning?
Mr. SENATOR. Sunday morning I assume it was somewhere around between 8
or 9, somewheres in that time. Just something in that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any way to fix it at all?
Mr. SENATOR. No; you see, when I was on the witness stand with Mr.
Bill Alexander, now he tried to make me pinpoint it right down to the
minute. It is highly impossible. If you are not watching a clock and
don’t have one, how can you pinpoint these things? How can you really
do it? How is it possible? How can you pinpoint time when you are not
watching it?
Mr. HUBERT. In any case what you are saying, your best estimate is that
it was——
Mr. SENATOR. I have to estimate it. Now, as I say when I estimate it, I
can be 15 minutes, a half hour or maybe an hour off on time.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you told us earlier that when you went to bed as
early as 11 o’clock you usually woke up quite early.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; this is why I say I probably woke up maybe around 8
or 9 that morning.