Mr. SENATOR. It was pretty well—you know, disturbed as I was and as
disturbed as I have seen many friends of mine, it was worse with him
than it was with the others who I have seen.
Mr. HUBERT. That is exactly what I was getting at. So he got hold
of this newspaper ad and read it again—is that it—that is, in the
coffeeshop?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; he looked it over again.
Mr. HUBERT. What comment did he make, while reading it or after?
Mr. SENATOR. While reading it?
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t mean his words, you understand, his exact words,
but the meaning, the thoughts expressed.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; the thoughts. He can’t understand it. It is so
penetrated in his mind he can’t understand why somebody would want to
do something like this.
Mr. HUBERT. The ad had nothing to do with killing the President?
Mr. SENATOR. No; but he couldn’t understand why an ad like this should
break out, about this ad. Another thing he couldn’t understand why in
the world would they want to impeach Justice Earl Warren. Incidentally,
that sign come out of Massachusetts, that billboard.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it your impression that Ruby was putting the three
instances together as being connected in some way; to wit: the death of
the President, the impeach Earl Warren sign, and the Weissman ad? Was
he seeming to do that?
Mr. SENATOR. He was seeming to do at that time—he was seeming to do
with the impeachment of Earl Warren, and the Weissman sign; he couldn’t
understand why these things were of a nature—I don’t know how long this
billboard has been out. I don’t know if it has been a day, two, or what
it was, and then the ad break out the same day that President Kennedy
was coming in. He wanted to know the whys.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, as I understand you, you gathered that was
running through his mind, was why the ad, and the poster, appeared at
the same time as the visit of the President; is that correct?
Mr. SENATOR. I would probably say it is something of that nature, I
guess.
Mr. HUBERT. I want to distinguish that, if possible, from another
situation, and that is whether or not you gathered that he was disposed
to place the killing of the President together with the poster and the
ad.
Mr. SENATOR. Run that again.
Mr. HUBERT. From what you could gather from his attitude, from what
he said and how he acted, do you think it was running through his
mind that there was a connection between the Earl Warren poster,
the Weissman ad, and the killing of the President rather than the
President’s visit?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I would say the subject at that time, when he was
looking at the sign and taking pictures of it, and the newspaper ad,
that this is where he really wanted to know the whys or why these
things had to be out. He is trying to combine these two together, which
I did hear him say, “This is the work of the John Birch Society or the
Communist Party or maybe a combination of both.”
Mr. HUBERT. What is the work of those two; the death of the President?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, no, no, no.
Mr. HUBERT. The publication of these signs?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. He did not indicate what his impressions were as to who was
behind the death of the President?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he didn’t indicate that.
Mr. HUBERT. Nor did he seem to associate the ads and the poster with
the President’s death?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know about that part.
Mr. HUBERT. But you do know that he was wondering why these two things,
the poster and ad, should come out at the same time?
Mr. SENATOR. Now, mind you, I don’t know if they come out at the same
time, because the billboard, I don’t know if that thing was there a day
or a week.
Mr. HUBERT. But he was associating the two of those together?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Or trying to find out if there was any connection between
those two?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; he wanted to know why.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was the fact that the ad was published and the sign
was posted that he attributed to the Communists or the Birch Society.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; and he couldn’t understand why the Dallas Morning
News would ever print such a thing like that, say that in their paper.
Mr. HUBERT. You see what I am trying to get at is whether he manifested
in any way that his thinking associated the assassination of the
President with the posting of the Warren poster and publication of
the ad, or rather whether he was simply associating the fact of the
publication of the ad and the posting of the poster with communism, and
so forth.
Mr. SENATOR. To my belief I think he was trying to associate the ad and
the poster with the Communist Party or the John Birch Society.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not gather from what he said that he associated the
death of the President to the Birch Society or the Communists or any
other group?
Mr. SENATOR. Not at the time that we were talking; rather, he was
talking about the signs.
Mr. HUBERT. That is, the poster and the ad?
Mr. SENATOR. The poster and the ad.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you all talked to anybody else in the coffeehouse, in
the coffeeshop?
Mr. SENATOR. No. I don’t think there was anybody in there at that time
outside of, I think, a cashier and probably a waitress.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall whether he made any comment to the cashier or
the waitress?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Larry have any comment to make that you recall?
Mr. SENATOR. I just don’t remember if he had any or not.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, when Ruby stated what you said he stated
concerning the poster, and so forth, did you have any comment to make
about it?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, nothing compared to him. Of course, after I heard
him mention it, then I sort of wondered also why an ad like that would
be put in the paper, or why anybody would want to impeach Justice Earl
Warren. What did it mean?
Mr. HUBERT. Jack had taken the pictures and he had gone to the post
office to check on the box. Did he state what he intended to do further?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you tried to calm him down?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it your impression that his state was that he should be
spoken to by a friend and calmed down?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I don’t know. It is hard for me to say these things.
Who would really know?
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case you didn’t argue with him about his view?
Mr. SENATOR. No. I don’t argue with him at any time.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not state a concurring view, I take it?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or an opposing view?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Nor did Larry?
Mr. SENATOR. Larry I can’t speak for because I just don’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. And you don’t remember whether Ruby spoke to anybody else
or anyone else spoke to him?
Mr. SENATOR. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what did you all do next?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before you go on, did Jack indicate what he was going to
do with the photographs that he took?
Mr. SENATOR. No. He just took them and he never said what he was going
to do with them. Of course, I know what the windup was with them later
on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was that?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I believe the local policemen got them after the
shooting when they searched him, took his money and his papers, and all
of that, and I believe those pictures were with it.