Mr. SENATOR. I struggled for the 2 months, and Jack Ruby said to move
in, so I moved in.
Mr. HUBERT. And were you supposed to pay any part?
Mr. SENATOR. With Jack, no.
Mr. HUBERT. The arrangement was that you were not to pay anything?
Mr. SENATOR. I wasn’t to pay, but you know I would help him. I would
help him Fridays and Saturdays, or once in a while I would pop up
during a week night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you something to get it straight about this
Rhea Manufacturing Co.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did they do? What did they make?
Mr. SENATOR. They manufacture dresses and sportswear.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I notice your social security earnings record with Smoler
Bros., that there seemed to be times regularly where you did not report
any earnings from them, or they did not report any payments to you I
should say, to be more accurate. Was there something seasonal about
that business with Smoler Bros.?
Mr. SENATOR. The type business?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; every season wasn’t good. In other words, let me
put it this way: When you get down to the latter part of the year,
you know, see, we are more so of a cotton housecoat, not a housecoat
but a cotton dress. You have seen these women wear these inexpensive
cotton dresses. They look like plaid variations. Well, this wasn’t a
big factor at that time of the year. In other words, our spring and our
summer was the best for us as far as selling goes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the spring and the summer were you selling for the
spring and summer seasons, or were you selling in the spring and summer
for the following season?
Mr. SENATOR. Let me explain it this way: I’m certain we are both on the
right track, but let me explain it this way. In other words, we will
start in May. In May your fall lines come out, see, come out, and you
start selling them in May. Some of them sell them in April, even. It
all depends who the manufacturer is and how fast they put them out.
Then your spring line—let’s see, from the fall line your spring line
will come out in, I think it’s August, August of the year.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s see if we cannot get it this way. You never actually
ceased your employment with Smoler’s at any time until the final time?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; that is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, there are periods from these reports that we have in
which Smoler’s apparently did not report any earnings for you. What we
want to know, is: Is it a fact that you did not earn anything during
that period or did not even draw during that period, or have you any
explanation for the reason that Smoler’s apparently did not report any
earnings for you during several years in a row for certain quarters,
seemingly for the third and fourth quarter of each year, and why would
that be?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you always on a draw right along?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there some periods during each year when you did not
earn your draw?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, yes: there were many times I didn’t earn my draw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anything seasonal about that? Were there certain
times of the year when you were working when it regularly happened that
you did not earn your draw?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What times of the year did that tend to be when you did
not earn your draw?
Mr. SENATOR. I cannot base it on any particular time or periods, but
there were many times, especially when you get chopped down a bit on
your loans. I have never made what you call any big money with them. I
was always, I would imagine, hitting probably around my draw part, or
there may have been times when I fell even behind.
Mr. HUBERT. I want to get to the time when you first met Jack Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Hubert, I have a couple of questions. I would like to
clear up on some much earlier stuff before you get to that.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. First of all, where is Gloversville, N.Y.? What part of
New York State is that?
Mr. SENATOR. Are you familiar with Albany?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. You are familiar with Schenectady?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. How about Amsterdam?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, if I am not, if you tell us where it is.
Mr. SENATOR. I haven’t been there in so many years I may not have the
right direction now. All I know is I am trying to figure what the
locality is. It is 30 miles from Schenectady. In other words, it is off
the beaten path a bit from your main lines.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It is upstate New York?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I would probably say in the locale of the foothills
of the Adirondacks.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I perhaps did not catch this, but there was a period
in 1947 when you went to work in New Hampshire?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why did you go to New Hampshire?
Mr. SENATOR. I needed a job.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to go there?
Mr. SENATOR. The man who was running the Red Rooster—what was the name
of it again?
Mr. HUBERT. The Hensroost.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; the Hensroost; he was up there for the summer. So he
got me a job up there for the summer. That was another time when I was
very much in need of a job. The type of work that I did up there, they
had a little place where the help used to come in, you know, to eat or
drink or buy cigars, separation from the guest part. This is the part I
worked, made them hamburgers or whatever it may be of that nature.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I do not have anything else, Mr. Hubert, if you want to go
on.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, as I understand it, it was in May of 1954, almost 10
years ago, that you moved to Dallas?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How soon after moving to Dallas did you meet Jack Ruby?
Mr. SENATOR. I would say it may have been—I would say approximately
about within a year or approximately about a year; I’m not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not know him prior to moving to Dallas?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, no; I had never heard of Jack Ruby before in my life.
Mr. HUBERT. You think it would be somewhere in 1955 that you first met
him?
Mr. SENATOR. I would even say in 1955 or early 1956. I mean give or
take a few.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us the circumstances under which you met him.
Mr. SENATOR. How I met him?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I was with a friend of mine one day. We went over to—I am
certain you heard of the Vegas Club in Dallas?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. That is where, you know—at that time this is all Jack Ruby
had was the Vegas Club and this is where I met him casually. Never seen
him before, and I was introduced to Jack Ruby like I guess anybody else
walked in, Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. All right; now, starting from then, would you tell us how
your friendship or acquaintance developed?
Mr. SENATOR. I have seen Jack; I have met Jack here or there, you know;
it can be in a restaurant or whatever it might be or a luncheonette or
something like that. I have met him many times. I have seen him, “Hi,
George”; “Hi, Jack, how are you?”
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to the Vegas Club frequently after that first
meeting?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, no; very, very seldom, very seldom, and the only time
that I really got close to Jack was about 2 years ago. Always previous
to that it has always been, “Jack, how are you?” wherever I met him;
having coffee, he always offered to buy me something to eat.
Mr. HUBERT. You describe your relationship with Jack up to 2 years ago
as casual?
Mr. SENATOR. Strictly casual, like I’d meet any other friend anywhere
else.
Mr. HUBERT. It could hardly be called friendship as it ultimately
developed, in any case.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I respected him; he respected me. We talked nice.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not go to the Vegas very much?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I didn’t go to the Vegas very much.
Mr. HUBERT. At the time you indicated that there was a change in that
casual relationship to something else 2 years ago.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what brought that about?