Mr. HUBERT. This will be the deposition of Mr. Wilbyrn Litchfield, II——

Mr. LITCHFIELD. When I sign, I sign “W. W. (Bob) II”,—does that need to

be in there?

Mr. HUBERT. You can bring that out later when I ask you more about your

name.

Mr. Litchfield, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory

staff of the General Counsel of the President’s Commission on the

Assassination of President Kennedy, under the provisions of Executive

Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress

No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission in

conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, and I

have been authorized to take a sworn deposition of you.

I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission’s inquiry

is to ascertain, evaluate, and report on the facts relating to the

assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of

Lee Harvey Oswald.

In particular as to you, Mr. Litchfield, the nature of the inquiry

today is to determine what facts you know or may know about the death

of Oswald, or any other facts you may know about the general inquiry,

or, about the possible connection, if any, of Jack Ruby with the death

of Oswald or the death of President Kennedy.

I think you have appeared here by virtue of a letter—written request

made to you?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t receive a letter to come?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Sorrels called me long distance.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, I must advise you then that under the rules

established by the Warren Commission, to govern the procedure of

handling witnesses and so forth, every witness is entitled to a 3-day

written notice that we wish to take his deposition, but those rules

also provide that if a witness wishes to, he may waive that 3-day

notice and just go ahead and testify now. So, I ask you now whether you

are willing to waive the 3-day notice and proceed to testify now?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and I will administer the oath.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the

truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I do.

Mr. HUBERT. You are commonly known among your friends as Bobby?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Bob.

Mr. HUBERT. Do I understand also that there are some of your legal

documents that you always sign that way too?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I sign it “W. W. (Robert) Litchfield, II.”

Mr. HUBERT. How old are you, sir?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Thirty.

Mr. HUBERT. Now where do you reside?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. 654 West Cross Timbers, Houston, Tex.

Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Professional bowler and bowling instructor and I sell

trophies for a bowling supply and bowling equipment office—balls, bags,

shoes—etc.

Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so occupied?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Since January of this year—approximately the middle of

January.

Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation prior to that time?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. From July 1963, until January of 1964, I did not work.

In July 1963, from March 1, 1962, until July 1963, I sold books and

worked myself up to a regional manager’s position.

Mr. HUBERT. Of what company?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I was with the Spencer International Press from March

of 1962 until May of 1963 working in Dallas-Fort Worth—made district

manager in San Jose, Calif., made regional manager February 1963, in

Atlanta, Ga., and stayed until May of 1963, and my father’s death

brought me back to Dallas. I left Spencer and went to work for Great

Books of the Western World in June, made district manager in 2 weeks,

and was terminated in July due to my past record.

Mr. HUBERT. What do you mean by “past record”?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I have a criminal record when I was 19 years old,

that’s 11 years ago.

Mr. HUBERT. What is the nature of it?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I forged some hot checks and paid them off, but because

I still had a bunch of them out—I had three charges in Fort Worth,

eight in Dallas, the sum total was roughly $3,000. Restitution was made

prior to the time I went to court. I went to court and received 3 years

concurrently on each charge, 3 years on each charge in Fort Worth, 3

years on each charge in Dallas, and concurrently backdated at Fort

Worth to August of 1952.

Mr. HUBERT. Was that in the Federal Court?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No, sir; State and county. I was in prison from

February—well, I was arrested August 1952, pleaded guilty in Fort Worth

in November 1952, pleaded guilty in Dallas in January 1953, went to

Huntsville Prison in February 1953, made conditional pardon in December

1953—do you want all this?

Mr. HUBERT. Yes; and you were released then, I take it?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Right. Pardon was reversed because I was married and I

was voluntarily returned from Denver, Colo.; I just came back myself

and turned myself in at Huntsville and I was released in April of 1956.

Mr. HUBERT. You were actually released from Huntsville in December

1953, under a conditional pardon?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir; to Denver, Colo.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, that it was with the permission of the

State of Texas—Texas authorities?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Were you on any terms of good conduct?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I had to report each month.

Mr. HUBERT. In Denver?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Right, and obtain a job, and I obtained one and my

parole officer—I asked him should I tell them I’m on parole, and he

said “No,” and three places I worked after I was there he called

and asked how I was doing and identified himself, which caused my

termination, and the last place I worked was a laundry. I was driving a

truck and the man told him—do you want the words he used?

Mr. HUBERT. Yes.

Mr. LITCHFIELD. “I don’t give a damn what he is doing, he is doing a

good job.” And I have a better recommendation from him that he sent me

when I came back to Texas.

Mr. HUBERT. You said something about turning yourself in?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir; my parole was revoked in July 1955.

Mr. HUBERT. What was the reason for that?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. The reason on my revokement is “unadjustment, unable to

adjust.”

Mr. HUBERT. That was done in Texas or Colorado?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It was done in Colorado—in Denver, and in August 1955,

I left Denver, Colo., and drove home and said goodbye to Mother and Dad

and drove down to Huntsville—in fact, my Dad drove down to Huntsville

with me.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, when you found out that the Colorado people

had in effect recommended the revocation or revoked your parole, you

knew that you would be eventually sought?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Or just sent back.

Mr. HUBERT. So, you just bypassed that and drove yourself into

Huntsville?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I went to Austin first to the parole board and they

said, “We have already reviewed your case and formulated an opinion.

You are going back.” And I said, “Well, I’m not going back today. I’ll

go back tomorrow,” and I went back the following day and turned myself

in.

Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay in?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. From August 1955 until April 1956, and I was discharged

in April 1956.

Mr. HUBERT. Were you discharged completely?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Completely.

Mr. HUBERT. Or on conditions?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Completely.

Mr. HUBERT. Completely?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No conditions whatsoever.

Mr. HUBERT. No conditions at all. Have you had any difficulty since

then?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Do you want the FBI fingerprint record for the time

I have been picked up? I have been picked up six or seven times for

investigation. I was picked up in Arizona for investigation, I was

picked up in Florida for investigation. I got low on money—I wrote some

hot checks in 1957 in Arlington, Va., and I paid them off and that was

my latest.

Mr. HUBERT. You were not charged?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes: in Arlington, Va., in 1957, I got 6 months.

Mr. HUBERT. And did you serve any part of that time?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And how much?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Five months—four months.

Mr. HUBERT. And then you were discharged from that without condition?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes—without condition. That was in a county jail. I was

a trustee—I was head cook.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, have you had any other convictions since then?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Since then—no, sir; one felony and one misdemeanor.

Mr. HUBERT. And that’s the two you have already told us about?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. When you were 19 and the other one in 1957?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I was charged—excuse me—I was picked up in January or

February 1958 and returned to Arlington, Va., and I was released at

Arlington, Va., in August 1958.

Mr. HUBERT. Since August 1958, you have had no trouble with the law?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Other than the fact that I—of being picked up for

investigation.

Mr. HUBERT. But you had no convictions?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. None.

Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever charged at all—formally, I mean, by actual

indictment?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No—no indictments.

Mr. HUBERT. You are not under any charge right now?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. You say you are married; when were you married?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I got married in 1961.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you support yourself between July 1963, and January

1964, when you were unemployed?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. My wife was working—my wife was working and I lived

with her and my mother.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you attempt to get work?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes—that’s one reason I left Dallas. The person who

is division manager of Great Books that terminated me, falsified—the

reason I was terminated, he accused me of something I did not do, and

I couldn’t prove it. It was my word against his. I couldn’t prove it,

and in January I had a chance to go to Houston to work for Great Books

and I went there and I tried to use the name of Robert Field—I had made

man-of-the-month for the Great Books organization of the whole United

States, and my picture was in their magazine called the Phenix. And the

division manager in Houston recognized me and checked it out and then 2

weeks later I had requested from this gentleman here about three orders

for me to be paid off. He had said they did not clear, that there was

no money involved and 3 weeks later through my bank here in Dallas,

Bank of Services and Trust, it just so happens that the man’s name is

Charles Counter. He has his personal account there also, and I’ve got

him on two counts of forgery right now. He took my paycheck, signed my

name, and endorsed it over to him. I have the photostats from the bank

and the photostats of the canceled checks that cleared the company.

Mr. HUBERT. But in any case, the point I think you are making—that your

opportunity to get with Great Books of the Western World in Houston was

frustrated because of the fact that you had changed your name and they

found out. That is, changed your name to the extent of leaving off the

first syllable of your last name?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, and the division manager there even talked to the

president of the company and he said “No.” So, I went to work for this

bowling supply which is owned by F. M. Curtis and Mel Livingston and

I told them my past record, and Mr. Curtis is a highway patrolman, he

has an interest in the supply business and he said, “I’ll give you a

break,” and I’ve been doing real good since. He just gave me a break.

Mr. HUBERT. You say you are a professional bowler?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you competed?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; in 1960 and 1961 I did, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Tell us about that.

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Well, I bowled in the All-American here in Dallas, the

PBA tour in 1961, I bowled in the Santa Fe Open in 1961 and I bowled in

the small—when I say “small” I mean $3,000 to $5,000 total first place,

singles and doubles tournaments.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever won any prizes?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, I have won prizes but I have never won the first

place—no.

Mr. HUBERT. What is the most that you have won?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. $750.

Mr. HUBERT. Where was that?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Ardmore, Okla.

Mr. HUBERT. Ardmore, Okla.?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. When?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. 1961.

Mr. HUBERT. About what part of the year—what tournament was it?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. It’s called the Ardmore Classic. I think they run

it from about May to about August. It’s 8 games across 16 lanes,

handicapped from 2 to 10.

Mr. HUBERT. You won $750—which was not first place, but what?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. About eighth place.

Mr. HUBERT. And you won it under your name W. W. Litchfield or Bob

Litchfield?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you were living in Dallas, I take it, in the last 6

months of 1963?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I was.

Mr. HUBERT. Where were you living then?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. 302 West Clarendon. I also lived at the Drexel House

Apartments.

Mr. HUBERT. Where are they located?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, me, I have forgotten the address—Henderson and Knox.

Mr. HUBERT. Who runs that?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I’ve forgotten the lady’s name that runs that.

Mr. HUBERT. Bertha Cheek.

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No—she does not run it.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Bertha Cheek?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I do.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what street she lives on?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes; I do—Bertha Cheek lives on Swiss Avenue. She owns

an apartment house on Swiss, but the Drexel House is on—right off the

corner of Knox.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever live at Bertha Cheek’s boarding house or

apartment?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. HUBERT. Never?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Never.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you get to know her?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. I met her through a fellow at the bowling alley—I don’t

remember his last name. He owns an electric company here in town, the

one that has the lighting for all the fairgrounds, Bob Sands Electric

Co.

Mr. HUBERT. And he operates the bowling alley?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. No, sir; he was a bowler.

Mr. HUBERT. He was a bowler himself?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever visit at her place?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, her apartment?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. When?

Mr. LITCHFIELD. Oh, let’s see, spasmodically from September to October

and November of 1963.

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