especially; firstly, she will not hear the preaching of the blessed
Evangel of Jesus Christ; and, secondly, she maintains that idol, the
Mass.
_Lethington._ She does not think that rebellion, but good religion.
_Knox._ So thought they that at one time offered their children to
Moloch; and yet the Spirit of God affirms that they offered them
unto devils, and not unto God. This day the Turks think they have
a better religion than that of the Papists. I think ye will excuse
neither of them from committing rebellion against God: nor can ye
justly excuse the Queen, unless ye make God to be partial.
_Lethington._ But yet, why pray ye not for her, without moving any
doubt?
_Knox._ Because I have learned to pray in faith. Now faith, ye know,
depends upon the words of God, and the Word teaches me that prayers
profit the sons and daughters of God's election. Whether she be one
of these or not, I have just cause to doubt; and, therefore, I pray
God "illuminate her heart," if it be His good pleasure.
_Lethington._ But yet ye can produce the example of none that so has
prayed before you.
_Knox._ I have already answered that; but yet, for further
declaration, I will demand a question. Do ye think that the Apostles
prayed themselves as they commanded others to pray?
"Who doubts of that?" said the whole company that were present.
_Knox._ Well then, I am assured that Peter said these words to Simon
Magus, "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray to God,
that, if it be possible, the thought of your heart may be forgiven
thee." Here we may plainly see that Peter joins a condition with his
commandment that Simon should repent and pray, to wit, if it were
possible that his sin might be forgiven; for he was not ignorant
that some sins were unto the death, and so without all hope of
repentance or remission. Think ye not, my Lord Secretary, there may
touch my heart, concerning the Queen's conversion, the same doubt
that then touched the heart of the Apostle?
_Lethington._ I would never hear you or any other call that in doubt.
_Knox._ But your will is no assurance to my conscience. And, to
speak freely, my Lord, I wonder if ye yourself doubt not of the
Queen's conversion; for more evident signs of induration[235]
have appeared, and still do appear in her, than outwardly Peter
could have espied in Simon Magus. Albeit at one time he had been a
sorcerer, he joined with the Apostles, believed, and was baptized;
and albeit the venom of avarice remained in his heart, and he
would have bought the Holy Ghost, yet, when he heard the fearful
threatenings of God pronounced against him, he trembled, desired the
assistance of the prayers of the Apostles, and humbled himself like
a true penitent, so far as the judgment of man could pierce, and
yet we see that Peter doubted of his conversion. Why then may not
all the godly justly doubt of the conversion of the Queen, who has
practised idolatry (which is no less odious in the sight of God than
is the other) and still continues in the same, yea, who despises all
threatenings, and refuses all godly admonitions?
[235] Hardening.
_Lethington._ Why say ye that she refuses admonition? She will
gladly hear any man.
_Knox._ But what obedience, to God or to His Word, ensues of all
that is spoken to her? Or when shall she be seen to give her
presence to the public preaching?
_Lethington._ I think never, so long as she is thus treated.
_Knox._ And so long ye and all others must be content that I pray,
so that I may be assured of being heard by my God, that His good
will may be done, either in making her comfortable to His Kirk, or,
if He has appointed her to be a scourge to it, that we may have
patience, and she may be bridled.
_Lethington._ Well let us come to the second head. Where find ye
that the Scripture calls any the bond slaves to Satan? or that the
Prophets of God speak so irreverently of kings and princes?
_Knox._ The Scripture says, that "by nature we are all the sons of
wrath." Our Master, Christ Jesus, affirms, that "such as do sin are
servants to sin," and that it is the only Son of God that sets men
at freedom. Now, what difference there is betwixt the sons of wrath,
and the servants of sin, and the slaves to the Devil, I understand
not, except I be taught. If the sharpness of the term offend you,
I have not invented that phrase of speech, but have learned it
out of God's Scripture; for those words I find spoken unto Paul,
"Behold, I send thee to the Gentiles, to open their eyes, that they
may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto
God." Mark these words, my Lord, and sturr not at the speaking of
the Holy Ghost. The same Apostle, writing to his scholar Timothy,
says, "Instruct with meekness those that are contrary minded, if
God at any time will give them repentance, that they may know the
truth, and that they may come to amendment, out of the snare of the
Devil, which are taken of him at his will." If your Lordship rightly
considers these sentences, ye shall not only find my words to be the
words of the Holy Ghost, but also that the condition which I use to
add, has the assurance of God's Scriptures.
_Lethington._ But they spake nothing against kings in especial, and
yet your continual crying is, "The Queen's idolatry, the Queen's
Mass, will provoke God's vengeance!"
_Knox._ In the former sentences I hear not kings and queens
excepted, but all unfaithful are pronounced to stand in one rank,
and to be in bondage to one tyrant, the Devil. But belike, my Lord,
ye little regard the estate wherein they stand, when ye would have
them so flattered, that the danger thereof should neither be known
nor declared to the poor people.
_Lethington._ Where will ye find that any of the Prophets did so
entreat kings and queens, rulers or magistrates?
_Knox._ In more places than one. Ahab was a king, and Jezebel was a
queen, and yet of what the Prophet Elijah said to the one and to the
other, I suppose ye are not ignorant?
_Lethington._ That was not cried out before the people to make them
odious to their subjects.
_Knox._ That Elijah said, "Dogs shall lick the blood of Ahab, and
eat the flesh of Jezebel," the Scriptures assure me; but I read
not that it was whispered in their own ear, or in a corner. The
plain contrary appears to me. That is, both the people and the
Court understood well enough what the Prophet had promised; for so
witnessed Jehu, after God's vengeance had stricken Jezebel.
_Lethington._ They were singular motions of the Spirit of God, and
appertain nothing to this our age.
_Knox._ Then the Scripture has far deceived me, for St. Paul
teaches me that, "Whatsoever is written within the Holy Scriptures,
is written for our instruction." And my Master said that "Every
learned and wise scribe brings forth his treasure, both things
old and things new." And the Prophet Jeremiah affirms that "Every
realm and every city that likewise offends, as then did Jerusalem,
should likewise be punished." Why then, I neither see nor yet can
understand that the acts of the ancient Prophets, and the fearful
judgments of God executed before us upon the disobedient, appertain
not unto this our age. But now, to put an end to this head, my Lord,
the Prophets of God have not spared to rebuke wicked kings, as well
to their face as before the people and subjects. Elisha feared not
to say to King Jehoram, "What have I to do with thee? Get thee to
the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother; for
as the Lord of Hosts lives, in whose sight I stand, if it were not
that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat, the King of Judah, I
would not have looked toward thee nor seen thee." It is plain that
the Prophet was a subject in the kingdom of Israel, and yet how
little reverence he gives to the King. Jeremiah the Prophet was
commanded to cry to the King and to the Queen, and to say, "Behave
yourselves lawfully; execute justice and judgment; or else your
carcases shall be cast to the heat of the day, and unto the frost
of the night." Unto Coniah, Shallum, and Zedekiah, he speaks in
special, and shows to them, in his public sermons, their miserable
ends; and therefore ye ought not to think it strange, my Lord, that
the servants of God mark the vice of kings and queens, as well as of
other offenders, and that because their sins are more noisome to the
commonwealth than are the sins of inferior persons.
For the most part of this reasoning, Secretary Lethington leaned
upon the Master of Maxwell's breast, who said, "I am almost weary: I
would that some other would reason in the chief head, which is not
touched."
The Earl of Morton, Chancellor, commanded Mr. George Hay to reason
against John Knox, in the head of obedience due unto magistrates;
and he began so to do.
_Knox._ Brother, I am well content that ye reason with me, because
I know you to be both a man of learning and of modesty: but that
ye shall oppose yourself to a truth of which, I suppose, your own
conscience is no less persuaded than is mine, I cannot well approve.
I would be sorry that you and I should be reputed to reason as two
scholars of Pythagoras, to show the quickness of our imagination. I
protest here, before God, that, whatsoever I sustain, I do the same
of conscience; yea, I dare no more sustain a proposition known unto
myself untrue, than dare I teach false doctrine in the public place.
Therefore, Brother, if conscience move you to oppose yourself to
that doctrine which ye have heard from my mouth in that matter, do
it boldly: it shall never offend me. But it pleases me not that ye
be found to oppose yourself to me, if ye are persuaded in the same
truth. In that there may be greater inconvenience than either ye or
I do consider for the present.
_Hay._ Far be it from me to prove myself willing to impugn or
confute that head of doctrine, which not only ye, but many
others, yea, and I myself have affirmed; for so should I be found
contrarious to myself. My Lord Secretary knows my judgment in that
head.
_Lethington._ Marry; ye are well the worse of the two. I remember
well your reasoning when the Queen was in Carrick.
_Knox._ Well, seeing, Brother, that God has made you occupy the
chair of truth, in which, I am sure, we will agree in all principal
heads of doctrine, let it never be said that we disagree in
disputation.
John Knox was moved thus to speak, because he understood more of the
craft than the other did.
_Lethington._ Well, I am persuaded in this last head somewhat
better than I was in the other two. Mr. Knox, yesterday we heard
your judgment upon the 13th to the Romans; we heard the mind of the
Apostle well opened; we heard the causes why God has established
powers upon the earth; we heard the necessity that mankind has
of the same; and we heard the duty of magistrates sufficiently
declared; but in two things I was offended, and so I think were
some more of my Lords that were then present. The one was that ye
made difference betwixt the ordinance of God and the persons that
were placed in authority; and ye affirmed that men might refuse the
persons, and yet not offend against God's ordinance. This is the
one; the other ye had no time to explain; but methought ye meant
this,--that subjects were not bound to obey their princes if they
commanded unlawful things; but that they might resist their princes,
and were never bound to suffer.
_Knox._ In very deed ye have rightly both marked my words, and
understood my mind; for I have long been of that same judgment, and
so I yet remain.
_Lethington._ How will ye prove your division and difference, and
that the person placed in authority may be resisted, and God's
ordinance not transgressed, seeing that the Apostle says, "He that
resists the powers, resisteth the ordinance of God."
_Knox._ My Lord, the plain words of the Apostle make the difference,
and the acts of many approved by God prove my affirmative. First,
the Apostle affirms that the powers are ordained of God for the
preservation of quiet and peaceable men, and for the punishment of
malefactors. From this it is plain that the ordinance of God and
the power given unto men is one thing, and the person clad with
the power or with the authority is another. God's ordinance is the
conservation of mankind, the punishment of vice, and the maintaining
of virtue, which is in itself holy, just, constant, stable, and
perpetual. But men clad with the authority are commonly profane
and unjust; yea, they are mutable and transitory, and subject to
corruption. God threateneth them by His Prophet David, saying, "I
have said ye are gods, and every one of you the sons of the Most
Highest; but ye shall die as men, and the princes shall fall like
others." Here I am assured that persons, the soul and body of
wicked princes, are threatened with death: I think that ye will not
affirm that so also are the authority, the ordinance and the power,
wherewith God has endued such persons; for, as I have said, as it
is holy, so is it the permanent will of God. Now, my Lord, it is
evident that the prince may be resisted, and yet the ordinance of
God not violated. The people resisted Saul, when he had sworn by the
living God that Jonathan should die. The people, I say, swore to the
contrary, and delivered Jonathan, so that not a hair of his head
fell. Now, Saul was the anointed king, and they were his subjects,
and yet they so resisted him that they made him no better than
mansworn.[236]
[236] Perjured.
_Lethington._ I doubt if in so doing the people did well.
_Knox._ The Spirit of God accuses them not of any crime, but rather
praises them, and condemns the king, as well for his foolish vow
and law made without God, as for his cruel mind, that would have
punished an innocent man so severely. I shall not stand entirely
upon this: what follows shall confirm it. This same Saul commanded
Abimelech and the priests of the Lord to be slain, because they had
committed treason, as he alleged, for intercommuning with David. His
guard and principal servants would not obey his unjust commandment;
but Doeg, the flatterer, put the king's cruelty to execution. I
will not ask your judgment whether the servants of the king, in not
obeying his commandment, resisted God or not; or whether Doeg, in
murdering the priests, gave obedience to a just authority. I have
the Spirit of God, speaking by the mouth of David, to assure me of
the one as well as of the other; for he, in his fifty-second Psalm,
condemns that act as a most cruel murder; and affirms that God will
punish not only the commander but the merciless executor. I conclude
that they who gainstood his commandment resisted not the ordinance
of God.
And now, my Lord, to answer to the statement of the Apostle, where
he affirms that such as resist the power resist the ordinance of
God, I say that the power in that place is not to be understood to
be the unjust commandment of men, but the just power wherewith God
has armed His magistrates and lieutenants to punish sin and maintain
virtue. If any man enterprise to take from the hands of a lawful
judge a murderer, an adulterer, or any other malefactor that by
God's law deserves death, this same man resists God's ordinance,
and procures to himself vengeance and condemnation, because he has
stayed God's sword from striking. But this is not the case if men,
in the fear of God, oppose themselves to the fury and blind rage of
princes; in doing so, they do not resist God, but the Devil, who
abuses the sword and authority of God.
_Lethington._ I sufficiently understand what ye mean; and to the
one part I will not oppose myself. But I doubt of the other. If the
Queen commanded me to slay John Knox, because she is offended at
him, I would not obey her. But, were she to command others to do it,
or by a colour of justice to take his life from him, I cannot tell
if I should be found to defend him against the Queen and against her
officers.
_Knox._ Under protestation that the audience think not that I seek
favours for myself, my Lord, I say that, if ye be persuaded of my
innocency, and if God has given you such power and credit as might
deliver me, and yet you suffered me to perish, in so doing you
should be criminal, and guilty of my blood.
_Lethington._ Prove that, and win the play.
_Knox._ Well, my Lord, remember your promise, and I shall be short
in my probation. The Prophet Jeremiah was apprehended by the priests
and prophets, who were a part of the authority within Jerusalem, and
by the multitude of the people, and this sentence was pronounced
against him, "Thou shalt die the death; for thou hast said, this
house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without
inhabitant." The princes, hearing the uproar, came from the king's
house, and sat down in judgment in the entry of the new gate of
the Lord's House, and there the priests and the prophets, before
the princes, and before all the people, stated their accusation
in these words, "This man is worthy to die, for he has prophesied
against this city, as your ears have heard." Jeremiah answered that
whatsoever he had spoken proceeded from God; and therefore said he,
"As for me, I am in your hands: do with me as ye think good and
right. But know ye for certain that, if ye put me to death, ye shall
surely bring innocent blood upon your souls, and upon this city, and
upon the habitations thereof; for of truth the Lord has sent me to
you, to speak all these words." Now, my Lord, if the prophets and
the whole people should have been guilty of the Prophet's blood, how
shall ye or others be judged innocent before God, if ye suffer the
blood of such as have not deserved death to be shed when ye may save
it?
_Lethington._ The cases are nothing like.
_Knox._ I would like to learn wherein the dissimilitude stands.
_Lethington._ First, the king had not condemned him to death. And
next, the false prophets and the priests and the people accused him
without a cause, and therefore they could not but be guilty of his
blood.
_Knox._ Neither of these fights against my argument; for, albeit
the king was neither present, nor yet had condemned him, the
princes and chief councillors were there sitting in judgment. They
represented the king's person and authority, hearing the accusation
laid to the charge of the Prophet. Therefore he forewarns them of
the danger, as I have already said, that, if he should be condemned
and put to death, the king, the council, and the whole city of
Jerusalem should be guilty of his blood, because he had committed
no crime worthy of death. If ye think that they should all have
been criminal, only because they all accused him, the plain text
witnesses the contrary. The princes defended him, and so no doubt
did a great part of the people; and yet he boldly affirms that they
should be all guilty of his blood if he should be put to death. The
Prophet Ezekiel gives the reason why all are guilty of a common
corruption. He says, "I sought a man amongst them that should make
up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I
should not destroy it, but I found none; therefore have I poured my
indignation upon them." From this, my Lord, it is plain that God
craves not only that a man do no iniquity in his own person, but
also that he oppose himself to all iniquity, so far as in him lies.
_Lethington._ Then ye will make subjects control their princes and
rulers.
_Knox._ And what harm should the commonwealth receive, if the
corrupt affections of ignorant rulers were moderated, and so bridled
by the wisdom and discretion of godly subjects that they should do
wrong nor violence to no man?
_Lethington._ All this reasoning is not to the purpose; for we
reason as if the Queen should become such an enemy to our religion,
that she should persecute it, and put innocent men to death. This,
I am assured, she never intended, and never will do. If I should
see her again of that purpose, yea, if I should suspect any such
thing in her, I should be as far forward in that argument as ye or
any other within this realm. But there is not such a thing. Our
question is, whether we may and ought to suppress the Queen's Mass?
Or whether her idolatry shall be laid to our charge?
_Knox._ What ye may do by force, I dispute not; but what ye may and
ought to do by God's express commandment, that I can tell. Idolatry
ought not only to be suppressed, but the idolater ought to die the
death, unless we will accuse God.
_Lethington._ I know that the idolater is commanded to die the
death; but by whom?
_Knox._ By the people of God. The commandment was given to Israel,
as ye may read, "Hear, Israel, says the Lord, the statutes and the
ordinances of the Lord thy God," etc. Yea, a commandment was given,
that, if it be heard that idolatry is committed in any one city,
inquisition shall be taken; and, if it be found true, the whole body
of the people shall then arise and destroy that city, sparing in it
neither man, woman, nor child.
_Lethington._ But there is no commandment given to the people to
punish their king if he be an idolater.
_Knox._ I find no privilege to offend God's Majesty granted to
kings, by God, more than to the people.
_Lethington._ I grant that; but yet the people may not be judges to
their king to punish him, albeit he be an idolater.
_Knox._ God is the Universal Judge, as well of the king as of the
people. What His Word commands to be punished in the one, is not to
be absolved in the other.
_Lethington._ We agree in that; but the people may not execute God's
judgment. They must leave it to Himself. He will either punish it by
death, by war, by imprisonment, or by some other plagues.
_Knox._ I know the last part of your reason to be true; but for
the first, that the people, yea, or a part of the people, may not
execute God's judgments against their king, he being an offender, I
am assured ye have no other warrant except your own imagination, and
the opinion of such as have more fear to offend princes than God.
_Lethington._ Why say ye so? I have the judgments of the most famous
men within Europe, and of such as ye yourself will confess both
godly and learned.
And with that he called for his papers. When these were produced
by Mr. Robert Maitland, he began to read with great gravity the
judgments of Luther, and Melanchthon, and the minds of Bucer,
Musculus, and Calvin, as to how Christians should behave themselves
in time of persecution: yea, the Book of Baruch was not omitted.
_Lethington._ The gathering of these things has cost more travail
than I have taken these seven years in the reading of commentaries.
_Knox._ The more pity; and yet, let others judge what ye have
profited your own cause. As for my argument, I am assured ye
have weakened it in nothing; for your first two witnesses speak
against the Anabaptists, who deny that Christians should be subject
to magistrates, or that it is lawful for a Christian to be a
magistrate. That opinion I no less abhor than ye do, or than does
any other that lives. The others speak of Christians subject to
tyrants and infidels, so dispersed that they have no other force
but only to sob to God for deliverance. That such, indeed, should
hazard any further than these godly men direct them, I cannot
hastily counsel. But my argument has another ground; for I speak of
the people assembled together in one body of one commonwealth, to
whom God has given sufficient force, not only to resist, but also
to suppress all kind of open idolatry. Such a people, I affirm yet
again, are bound to keep their land clean and unpolluted.