Mr. CRAFARD. Wait a minute; excuse me. I saw him before I went to work,
before I went to work with the carnival. My sister told me where they
was living at there.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you intend to stop with him that night or just to visit?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, I figured when I got in there at that time of night,
I knew what the road to Kalkaska was--it was pretty rough overnight, so
I figured I would stop. I would be perfectly welcome.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they recognize you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you talk to them about the Ruby matter?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. We talked quite a bit of it that night.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the nature of the conversation?
Mr. CRAFARD. About the fact that I told them I had worked for him. It
was kind of a surprise to them to know somebody who worked for him;
asked me what kind of a guy he was, and everything.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you tell them?
Mr. CRAFARD. What I could, the best I could, what kind of a guy he was.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you tell them under what circumstances--did you tell
them the circumstances under which you had left?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; told them how I had left.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they express any surprise about that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; because they knew me.
Mr. HUBERT. They didn’t seem to be concerned about it?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was there?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was my cousin and his wife.
Mr. HUBERT. Just the two?
Mr. CRAFARD. And their children.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are their children?
Mr. CRAFARD. The oldest one, I think, is 7 or 8, something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. No friends came over?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe there was anybody over that night.
Mr. HUBERT. You did stay there that night?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you go to bed?
Mr. CRAFARD. It must have been about an hour and a half after I got
there, 2 hours.
Mr. HUBERT. And you slept through the night?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you remain there the next day?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I went on up to Harrison.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that in the direction of Kalkaska?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; along the best traveled road.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you leave Clare?
Mr. CRAFARD. Probably about 9:30 or 10 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Did your cousin Roberts know your destination?
Mr. CRAFARD. He knew where I was going to go on to my sister’s.
Mr. HUBERT. He knew you were going to hitchhike?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Had he been in touch with your sister, do you know?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe he had been in touch with her for quite a
while.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean, did he know she was there?
Mr. CRAFARD. She might have told her that he was living up there--I
think mother told my sister where he lived, or something.
Mr. HUBERT. What is the distance between Clare and your sister’s place
in Kalkaska, is it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Kalkaska, about 100, 120 miles.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that a rural community?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. No cities along that route?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, there is one about 60 miles from it.
Mr. HUBERT. What is the name of it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Cadillac. It is about 60 miles from Traverse City.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have enough money at that time to get a bus ride in?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You had about $4 or $5 left, didn’t you?
Mr. CRAFARD. I had a couple of dollars left.
Mr. HUBERT. $2?
Mr. CRAFARD. $2 or $3.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you attempt to borrow any money from your cousin to
take the trip?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he offer to give you any?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; he was in no position to. He had a large family.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you make inquiry as to how much it would cost?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you said that you knew that that was a bad road for
hitchhikers.
Mr. CRAFARD. At night, I said.
Mr. HUBERT. It is all right in the day?
Mr. CRAFARD. Fairly decent road; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you make it that day into Kalkaska?
Mr. CRAFARD. I went up to Harrison that day and spent a couple of hours
with an aunt I have in Harrison, and then went to Kalkaska.
Mr. HUBERT. What is her name?
Mr. CRAFARD. Jean Eaton.
Mr. HUBERT. Is she married?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is her married name?
Mr. CRAFARD. Eaton.
Mr. HUBERT. I see. Do you know her husband’s first name?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ed.
Mr. HUBERT. Is he living with her so that it is Mrs. Ed Eaton?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where does she live?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know the name of the street she lives on. They get
their mail through a post office box.
Mr. HUBERT. You spent a couple of hours there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you hitchhiked there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How far is Harrison from Kalkaska?
Mr. CRAFARD. About 90, 95 miles, I think.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get to Kalkaska that night?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall whether I went that night or whether I
stayed with my aunt and uncle that night.
Mr. HUBERT. We are talking now about Tuesday, the 26th of November.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember whether you got there Tuesday or Wednesday?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember sleeping at your aunt’s house?
Mr. CRAFARD. I have spent on several occasions, I have spent the night
with my aunt and uncle.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean on that occasion.
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember for sure whether I stayed with my aunt.
Mr. HUBERT. I thought you said for a couple of hours there, and I was
wondering whether you had slept there that night. You said you visited
a couple of hours.
Mr. CRAFARD. I went up there, I got up there before the kids come home
for lunch.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you stay 2 hours or more?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I spent the rest of the day there.
Mr. HUBERT. And slept there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe so. Then I went up to my sister’s the next day.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anybody--did your aunt and uncle have a car?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; he was working.
Mr. HUBERT. You weren’t able to get a ride?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not with them.
Mr. HUBERT. You had to hitchhike?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t even at that point consider bus travel?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. So then you got to your sister’s house on Wednesday, then?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. About what time of day?
Mr. CRAFARD. It must have been about 2:30 or 3 o’clock in the
afternoon, I imagine.
Mr. HUBERT. She didn’t know you were coming?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. That is in Kalkaska?
Mr. CRAFARD. She lives about, I think about 20 miles out of Kalkaska,
or she did at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. So that when you got to Kalkaska you still had to go
another 20 miles?
Mr. CRAFARD. About that, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. That was a rural road?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was about--most of it was a well-traveled road, one of
the main roads through the State.
Mr. HUBERT. From Kalkaska to where she lived?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was then about two miles off the road.
Mr. HUBERT. She lives off the main highway?
Mr. CRAFARD. She did at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she live in a log cabin or something of that kind?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was living in a farm house.
Mr. HUBERT. Farm house. About 20 miles from Kalkaska?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; a little place called Mancelona.
Mr. HUBERT. Mancelona?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. It is in County Antrim; isn’t it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I believe so.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you tell her about your experience?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What was her reaction?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, about the same as everybody else.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she know about Ruby?
Mr. CRAFARD. I am not sure whether she did or not. They didn’t have
their radio or TV either, so I don’t know. I think they had heard about
it, but I am not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. But, in any case, she didn’t know you had been working for
him?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it at that place that the FBI man interviewed you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What day was that?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is where he picked me up. He picked me up there on
Thanksgiving Day.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did he pick you up? Did he arrest you?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. They came out the house about 7 o’clock Thanksgiving
Day.
Mr. HUBERT. 7 o’clock at night?
Mr. CRAFARD. In the morning, and he had me go for an interview.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you go?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was about 10 miles from there. It is a little town
where the police station was. I don’t remember the name of the town.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how they located you?
Mr. CRAFARD. How is that?
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how they located you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, they went to my aunt’s.