Mr. HUBERT. So your remark that it was red and white was inadvertent,
or do you really have any recollection?
Mr. CRAFARD. It would be an inadvertent remark.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Go on to the next picture and call off the
identification mark when you speak of it.
Mr. CRAFARD. Exhibit B, it would be the girl in the middle in the
striped dress.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. CRAFARD. In Exhibit C it would be the girl behind Ruby looking
over his shoulder in the striped dress. Exhibit D it would be the girl
behind Ruby looking over his shoulder with the striped dress. Exhibit E
would be the girl in the middle with the striped dress.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize Ruby in all of these pictures, too?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is the other girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. The other girl was one of the strippers in his club.
Mr. HUBERT. What was her name?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it is Tammi True.
Mr. HUBERT. That girl you have identified in all those pictures as
having the striped dress, that is the girl you are talking about whom
Ruby used to take out socially?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you don’t know her name?
Mr. CRAFARD. Could I say that other girl is Kathy Kay, I am definite of
that after looking at her picture closer.
Mr. HUBERT. The blond girl is Kathy Kay?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So you want to change your opinion expressed a moment ago
that it was Tammi True, is that correct?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Prior to the taking of this segment of the deposition
dealing with the identification of these photos, I think you had looked
at at least one of these photos and could not recognize the girl that
you have now recognized as being the companion of Ruby.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. As being such. Then later you have come to the conclusion
that it is the girl. Can you tell us why you have now come to the
conclusion that it is the same girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. After looking at the whole group of pictures and the
different angles of her head where you can see her features better, I
came to the conclusion that is the girl.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, when you first expressed doubt as to
whether it was, you were looking at one picture only?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And after having looked at all of those pictures, that is
to say five of them as identified, you now are positive that that is
the girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand you to say you had at least one occasion on
which you actually had dinner with Jack and this girl is that correct?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Would it be fair to say you were in her company therefore
and could see her at close range for a period of at least an hour on
that occasion?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But you don’t know who she is?
Mr. CRAFARD. I cannot recall her name, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I wish you would give some thought to what her name is
before you leave so perhaps we can----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have occasion to write her name down any
place for Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe her name was wrote down, I believe her name was
wrote down in the notebook.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the little notebook you were keeping for him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I am not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Now, what other friends did you note that Ruby
had? You mentioned George Senator, and you have mentioned this girl who
was in the striped dress in the Exhibits 5200-A, -B, -C, -D, and -E.
Who else do you know?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ralph Paul.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have told us something about him.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who else?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was a couple of the comedians from some of the other
clubs that came up to the club quite often.
Mr. HUBERT. Who were they?
Mr. CRAFARD. I wouldn’t know their names.
Mr. HUBERT. Were there any others than those you have already mentioned?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can name; no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long were you at the club from the time you first went
there until the time you left?
Mr. CRAFARD. Approximately 6 weeks to a month or 2 months.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see any members of the Dallas police force
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us something about that.
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, the uniformed patrolman would come up every once in
awhile in the evening and have coffee on the club.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say on the club, you mean without paying for it?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I on several occasions--I on several occasions served the
coffee for them.
Mr. HUBERT. Normally you would collect for that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean normally you would collect from another patron.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But you didn’t collect from the police?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Why?
Mr. CRAFARD. Jack told me to go ahead and they could have coffee
whenever they wanted.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you did not ask any money for the coffee
because you had been instructed not to by Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. The girls had told me that they was allowed to do so.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember which girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. The waitresses.
Mr. HUBERT. The waitresses?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Jack never did mention the subject to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. The only thing he ever mentioned was that the policemen
went off duty, would come in there when they were off duty, got their
drinks at a cut price.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the cut price?
Mr. CRAFARD. The normal price was 60 cents, and they got them for 40
cents.
Mr. HUBERT. That you say is when they were off duty?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you any instructions as to what the price was
to be when they came in on duty?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was no charge for the coffee, and none would drink
anything other than coffee, to my knowledge, when they were on duty or
maybe a Coke or--a glass of Coke or a glass of 7-Up.
Mr. HUBERT. How did they identify themselves when they were off duty so
that they got the cut rate?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, most of them when they come in there, when they come
to the door they got in the door free so they showed a card at the
door, their identification at the door. And then it usually would be at
the bar, the girls knew most of them that did come in there when they
were off duty. Evidently I took it that Jack had introduced them as
officers, and we had occasion one night to serve one of the gentlemen,
we was talking, and one of the girls when I took over the bar from
Andy, he had to leave early, and he told me this gentleman was a police
officer. He said he only charged him 40 cents. So I had occasion to
talk with them.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get to know any by sight?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I could--just when he walked in the door and
say he was a police officer.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know any by name?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any of those policemen at the Ruby trial?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall it, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many different policemen would you say came in to
Ruby’s place during the period you were there?
Mr. CRAFARD. When they were off duty, to my knowledge, there was only
about 4 or 5 of them would come in there, off duty, and it was usually
the same ones that were on duty that would come in to have coffee,
patrolmen. The others were usually plainclothesmen, detectives.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know what bureau any of them were attached to?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know whether there were any of them attached to the
juvenile bureau?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not definitely.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You have some thought that they were?
Mr. CRAFARD. You mentioned the juvenile bureau, it seems to me there
was something mentioned about one of them being from the juvenile
bureau or something.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this something you read in the paper, or something that
was mentioned at the club.
Mr. CRAFARD. No, something that was mentioned at the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby follow a pretty close routine of life insofar as
his activities were concerned?
Mr. CRAFARD. For him, yes. His routine was for myself, or for any
ordinary businessmen that I have known, any businessmen that I have
known, would have been a real rough, hurry-scurry routine.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let’s take it timewise. For instance, you say he
usually called you in the morning. Was that pretty routine?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; that varied.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think you said that he came in usually sometime
before noon.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that pretty regular?
Mr. CRAFARD. Most of the time he would be in before noon, between 10:30
and 12 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what would he do with the rest of the day?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, he would be around the club for maybe anywhere from
a half hour to 2 hours, then he would leave the club and I might not
see him again until midnight.
Mr. HUBERT. And then he stayed until the club closed?
Air. Crafard. When he came back to the club after the club opened he
generally stayed until the club closed. On three or four occasions he
stayed until the club closed and then he went over to the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Normally what would he do?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would go over to the Vegas Club and pick up the
receipts for the day.
Mr. HUBERT. And then what?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I know, go home maybe stop for a bite to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would he do with the receipts?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would carry them home with him and the next day bring
them back to the Carousel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have a safe?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; he bought a safe while I was with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was about 2 weeks prior to the assassination of
President Kennedy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he happen to come to buy that safe?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, he was always carrying quite a bit of cash and he
was always worried about having somebody rob him or something, and I
guess he wanted, he finally made up his mind to buy a safe and he went
down to buy a safe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir; I was with him when he purchased the safe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall where he went?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall the name of the company.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Whereabouts was it located?
Mr. CRAFARD. Let’s see, it was a block and a half right straight behind
the Carousel Club, but I can’t recall the name of the street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It would have been on Field?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, Commerce--Field is next to Commerce, I believe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. CRAFARD. It was the next block back.