The testimony of Mrs. Bertha Cheek was taken at 10:15 a.m., on April
14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin,
assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me introduce myself. I am Burt Griffin. I am a
member of the advisory staff of the General Counsel’s office of the
President’s Commission investigating the assassination of President
Kennedy. I want to tell you a little bit about the Commission and what
our purpose is and so forth, Mrs. Cheek, before we actually get into
the taking of the testimony.
The Commission was set up pursuant to an Executive order of President
Johnson which was issued on November 30, 1963, and also pursuant to
a joint resolution of Congress. Under these two official acts, the
Commission has been given authority to take testimony and to promulgate
rules and regulations and so forth. Under these rules and regulations,
I have been designated to come here to Dallas to take your testimony.
Did you receive a letter from the Commission?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes, I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I might tell you that under--I don’t know when you
received this letter, but under the rules of the Commission, you are
entitled to have 3 days’ written notice, a letter from us 3 days before
you appear here to testify, and I presume that the letter arrived in
time so that you have had that notice?
Mrs. CHEEK. Saturday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Saturday. Now, also the Commission’s rules provide that
if you would like an attorney, that you may be accompanied here by an
attorney, and I notice that you don’t have one.
I did want to acquaint you with this fact, and I presume that since
you don’t have one, that you felt you didn’t need one. But if you do
feel you would like a personal attorney, and many of the people who
appear do have an attorney, that is perfectly proper, and in fact it is
encouraged by the Commission. But I take it by your presence without an
attorney, that you don’t feel you want one at the present time.
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t think that I would need one. I don’t know anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I am not suggesting that you would, but I wanted you
to be acquainted.
Mrs. CHEEK. I am not going to tell anything that is not the truth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me say this to you, that the Commission has been set
up for the purpose of investigating and evaluating and reporting back
to President Johnson about the assassination of President Kennedy, and
about the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. We are interested in finding out
from you, in particular, anything you might know in connection with any
one of these events.
Of course you have been interviewed by the Federal Bureau of
Investigation so that that is somewhat of a starting point for us.
I have had a chance to read over the reports and I know generally
what they have talked to you about. I will ask you if you have any
questions of us before I ask you to be sworn, and then we can start the
deposition.
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t have any questions. You just ask me, and I will
answer whatever I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you give us your name.
Mrs. CHEEK. Bertha Cheek.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live, Mrs. Cheek?
Mrs. CHEEK. 5901 Hillcrest.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It is Mrs. Cheek?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your husband’s name?
Mrs. CHEEK. I am divorced. Lloyd Cheek.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been divorced from Mr. Cheek?
Mrs. CHEEK. Approximately 1955 or approximately 1956, I can’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I hate to ask this question of a lady, but when were you
born?
Mrs. CHEEK. February 9, 1920.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The address you gave us is in Dallas?
Mrs. CHEEK. 5901 Hillcrest, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you lived in Dallas?
Mrs. CHEEK. About 16 or 17 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you live before you lived in Dallas?
Mrs. CHEEK. I was born in Troup, Tex., and I was raised in Tyler, and I
moved to Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now since you have lived in Dallas, have you met Jack Ruby?
Mrs. CHEEK. I met him on two occasions.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you first happen to meet Jack?
Mrs. CHEEK. He called me to invest in a nightclub.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mrs. CHEEK. Oh, sometime in November, the latter part of November, I
think it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The first time?
Mrs. CHEEK. The first time I don’t remember. Just what year it might
have been, could have been 1957 or 1958, I don’t know. Whenever he was
over here in the Carousel, and he was trying to sell half of it, and I
talked to him about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He owned the Carousel at the time he called you the first
time?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he want to sell you half of the Carousel?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you invested in any nightclubs before?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; but I am in the real estate business, and I invest in
properties all the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. How long have you been in the real estate business?
Mrs. CHEEK. Seventeen years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have a broker’s license?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes; I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is the name of your business?
Mrs. CHEEK. Bertha Cheek. I just go by my own name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you maintain an office any place?
Mrs. CHEEK. In my home. I usually sell my own property. Buy and sell. I
handle other people’s property at times, but very seldom.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of real estate do you handle?
Mrs. CHEEK. Residential real estate, apartments, and houses and lots.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many homes or pieces of real estate have you sold
outside of your own real estate?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us some sort of estimate how many that would
be?
Mrs. CHEEK. I really couldn’t give you an estimate because I don’t
know. It’s been very little.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would it be as many as 10 pieces of real estate other than
your own?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; not that many.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you own the address that you are presently living in?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that a rooming house that you are in?
Mrs. CHEEK. No. I have a couple of rooms rented to SMU students.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you lived at your present address?
Mrs. CHEEK. I moved there in January. Bought it in August.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. And prior to January--is that of this year, January
1964?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you live prior to January 1964?
Mrs. CHEEK. Swiss. 3914 Swiss. I have a 10-unit there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You still own that?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you own that particular residence? How long
have you owned that particular residence on Swiss Avenue?
Mrs. CHEEK. Three or four years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. During the 3 or 4 years that you have owned that
particular residence, have you owned any other pieces of property?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any other places that you rent out rooms?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you tell us what those were?
Mrs. CHEEK. 5430 Gaston; 5310 Gaston; 5212 Gaston; 5302 Gaston;
591--wait just a minute--5917 Gaston; the Beachcomber and the Holiday
Apartments.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, where did you live prior to living at the Swiss
Avenue address?
Mrs. CHEEK. At the Beachcomber and the Holiday Apartments, Gaston
Avenue.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall where you were living in 1958?
Mrs. CHEEK. 5302 Gaston.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now in 1958, what pieces of real estate did you own other
than 5308, the one you just mentioned?
Mrs. CHEEK. 5302.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What pieces of real estate did you own in 1958, other than
that?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t know. I would have to go back. I have owned quite a
bit of property.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you maintain a set of records as to the property?
Mrs. CHEEK. That I own at the present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or that you have owned over the years?
Mrs. CHEEK. On the courthouse records, just to go down and check.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about rental records for those places that you have
rented out rooms and suites, do you maintain records for those?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How far back do your records go?
Mrs. CHEEK. I have them back to 1947.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We haven’t asked you to bring any records.
Mrs. CHEEK. Not down here, I couldn’t bring them all.