Mr. HUBERT. All right; I would like you to go through and pick out the
names of the people that have not yet been discussed by you as part of
your deposition.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Here is a name--Mike Shore--I’ve heard it before--I
think he is an agent.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on the first page, right?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; and here is a name--Abe Kleinman--which is the
accountant.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on the second page?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The name Earl Ruby, that’s Jack’s brother.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on the second page?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The name Doris and Peggy, on the second page, which they
had called for to apply for jobs.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you speak to them?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; Larry did himself.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know, then, that they had called to apply for
jobs?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he told me--he wrote the name down and it was the
day we were looking for waitresses, and he give me the numbers, and I
didn’t reach them as they were not at home or something, and the name
Bill DeMar.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was he?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He’s an M.C.--the name Mike Ryan.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have already talked to us about Mike Ryan,
haven’t you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The name Little Lynn--I have already talked to you about
that. Here’s a name--Bobby Patterson of--I’ve heard of, I don’t know
him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What have you heard about him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Nothing--I just heard the name--I forget what he was
connected with.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that the witness is looking over the
pictures, and that as he has any comment, he has been asked to make
such comment without further questioning from me.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I recognize the back of the notebook.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the back of the notebook.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I just recognize that that’s the notebook that belonged
to Larry.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a document which is described as a
photostatic copy of some sort of a notebook which has been identified
as follows: This page is marked, “Dallas. Texas, April 14, 1964,” which
is when your deposition began, “Exhibit 5309-A, Deposition of Andrew
Armstrong,” and I have signed it.
Let the record show also that this exhibit is also marked “Washington,
D.C., Deposition of C. L. Crafard, Exhibit 5302, April 9, 1964,” and
under which appears the name of Mr. Burt Griffin.
This exhibit consists of nine pages. There is typewritten on the front
of it, “Notebook number 1,” found on the left-hand bottom of the
exhibit, and the number “(1)” and then on each of the subsequent pages
there is typewritten there at the right-hand side, “No. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, and 9,” in that sequence.
I ask you if you can identify that document? Now, look the whole thing
over and we will do it in this way. I want you to look it all over
first and tell me without making any comment, and then tell me whether
you identify it or not.
Mr. ARMSTRONG [examining instrument referred to].
Mr. HUBERT. All right, now you have looked over all of these pages, and
first I ask you whether you recognize the book at all?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize the handwriting or printing in it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I believe once--one time a long time ago Jack had a
notebook like this.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you say now whether the one you think he had a long
time ago is shown in these photostatic pictures?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. It must be, because my old telephone number is in there.
Mr. HUBERT. Your recognition of the book, though, is not based on an
actual recognition now, but an assumption, isn’t it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You really can’t recognize that as Jack’s handwriting or
have a distinct independent recollection of having seen the original of
which those pages are photos?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I’ll ask you to do as you have done with the last
exhibit, and that is to look over each page and see if you recognize
any name or number? If you do not, pass to the next page. If you do,
stop and tell us what page it is on and then make what comments you
have to make.
Mr. ARMSTRONG [examining instrument referred to]. First, I’ll say I
believe that is Jack’s handwriting.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, a moment ago you said you couldn’t be sure--have
you changed your mind?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What caused you to do that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Certain letters here that I know his way of printing.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, go on with the examination of each page as I have
asked you to do.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The name Bill Willis.
Mr. HUBERT. What page are you talking about--that is typewritten at the
bottom of page 4--right?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. At the bottom of page 4.
Mr. HUBERT. What name?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bill Willis.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize that name?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is he?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was a drummer at the club.
Mr. HUBERT. When was he a drummer at the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Ever since I been there.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he there until the place closed?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he was there almost 2 years?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was there longer than that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he and Jack get along all right?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. They got along better than anybody else.
Mr. HUBERT. What evidence did you see to support that conclusion on
your part?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, Bill Willis was one of the few guys that I ever
heard Jack say was a nice guy--continuously.
Mr. HUBERT. Was--so, your assumption that they got along better than
anyone else is based on what Jack told you about him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was that Jack continuously said he was a nice guy?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He liked him and everybody else did, because he is
really a wonderful person. I recognize my phone number and the name
“Andy.”
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on page 4?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. On page 4--I recognize the name “Wally Weston.”
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on page 6?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s on page 6. I have heard Jack mention the name Joe
Cook.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s on page 6, too?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Joe Cook?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What did Jack have to say about him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he just mentioned him in his business--I’ve
forgotten what it was.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he mention Joe Cook?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I can’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Would it have been shortly after you got there, towards the
end, or about the middle of the time you were there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t know--I couldn’t say. I recognize the name Peggy
Steele.
Mr. HUBERT. That was on page 8--who was Peggy Steele?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. She was a stripper that was booked there for about a
month.
Mr. HUBERT. How long ago--what period of time was she there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t know--it was sometime about the fall of 1962, I
would say.
Mr. HUBERT. She was there for about a month?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. After she left, did you ever see her?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Was she ever around the club any more?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. That was the fall of 1962, not 1963; is that correct?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. 1962--yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you have gone through all of the pages 1 through 9 of
Exhibit 5309-A, and I understand that you have made all the comments
that you have to make about any of the entries on those various pages,
and that is to say that you made a comment as to any name that had any
significance to you at all?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And if you have not commented on the name, that means that
the name has no significance to you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. I am going to ask you to do substantially the same thing
with another document that I am handing you that has been identified,
“Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964,” and this was marked for identification
on your last appearance. It is marked as Exhibit 5309-B, “Deposition of
Andrew Armstrong.” I have signed it. The document consists of 20 pages.
It is a photostat of an original, apparently. It has written in type
“Notebook No. (2), page 1,” on the first page, and then on each of the
subsequent pages there are numbers running from 2 to 20.
I would also like to have the record note that this exhibit has also
been marked as “Exhibit 5204,” relative to the deposition of C. L.
Crafard.
I would like you first of all to look through all of the pages for the
purpose of a general identification, after which I am going to ask you
to go over each page as you did the previous document.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. [Examining instrument referred to.] Okay.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that the witness is examining each page
of the exhibit.
Now, you have looked at all of the pages of that Exhibit 5309-B, and
you have identified it all?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes--no--well, yes, I have looked at it but I haven’t
identified it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, we’ll put it this way--have you ever seen the
original of which this exhibit is a series of pictures?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You have never seen that address book, or whatever it is?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t remember seeing this--now, I could have, but I
don’t remember it.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember ever having seen it at all?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Let me make this statement.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, go ahead--you wish to make a statement?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack kept a number of little books and little pieces of
paper wrapped up with a rubber band in his coat pocket and whenever he
got ready to look for anything he would take it out and run through it,
take out one of those little books, which I didn’t pay any attention to
it--this could be one of the little books he had.
Mr. HUBERT. But you do not recognize it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And you don’t believe you have ever seen it before?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I will ask you to go over each individual page and if
there is any entry or name that has any significance to you or that
you recognize in any way, stop and identify the page and then make
your comment. If, as you turn the pages over and examine them you have
no recognition or the entries are not significant to you, then your
silence as to each page will mean precisely that.
That is to say, that those entries mean nothing to you.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. [Examining instrument referred to.] I recognize the name
Sam Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s what page--the page you are referring seems to be
unnumbered--an unnumbered page, but it is the third page back from the
one that is numbered 20, is that correct?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is Sam Ruby?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack Ruby’s brother.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he around the club much?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever meet him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you meet him before Oswald was shot?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I met him at the club.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Three or four times.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever speak to him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What about?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, nothing--he would tell me about his business.
Mr. HUBERT. When was the last time you saw him prior to the
assassination?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The last time I saw him was at the trial.
Mr. HUBERT. When was the last time you saw him prior to the
assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I can’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, did you see any other names that you recognized
in that exhibit?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No others.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Mr. Armstrong, the other day I asked you to read a
number of reports which purport to be reports by agents of the FBI of
interviews of you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you read them at that time?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Those were marked for identification the other day as
follows:
“The interview by Special Agent Lish and Wilson, dated November 26, as
Exhibit 5310-A,” consisting of two pages; the interview on November 27,
consisting of one page, which was identified as Exhibit 5310-B; the
interview of December 9, 1963, consisting of one page was identified as
Exhibit 5310-C; and another interview of December 9, 1963, consisting
of one page and which is identified as Exhibit 5310-D; the interview of
December 13, 1963, consisting of one page and was identified as Exhibit
5310-E; the exhibit of December 19, 1963, was identified as Exhibit
5310-F; and exhibit dated January 22, 1964, was identified as Exhibit
5310-G, and it consists of four pages.
I have signed my name on the margin of the first page and my initials
at the right-hand bottom of all the other pages.
I think you have read these various exhibits carefully the other day,
did you not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. As a matter of fact, if my recollection serves me right, it
took you about an hour or so, did it not, to do so; is that correct?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you wish to look them over again?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I’m going to ask you a question, and if you do wish
to look them over again, in the light of my question, please say so,
because you will be allowed to do so?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. What I want to know is whether or not these various
Exhibits 5310-A through 5310-G are fair reports and correct reports of
the interviews with the various agents of the FBI on the dates dated?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you notice anything that was incorrect?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes--not in this, but in the statement that I made day
before yesterday.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you mean that when you say something was
incorrect--you mean you said something was incorrect the other day?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, we’ll get to that in a moment, but before we do,
let’s dispose of these Exhibits 5310-A through 5310-G.
As far as you know, and you have read them, there is nothing in those
exhibits that is incorrect?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. It represents the truth as you know it and as you told it
to the FBI agents?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you say that there was something that was incorrect
the other day that you said while in the course of your deposition?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you tell us what that was, please, sir?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. When you asked me what time did I leave the club on
Saturday night.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I said 8 o’clock and in the report here it says 9, and
after I read the report, I remembered that it was 9 o’clock when I left
the club.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the correction you want to make, then, is
not in the FBI report but in your own testimony?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Your memory has now been refreshed by the report and
you actually recollect that your time of departure from the club on
Saturday night?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was 9 o’clock rather than 8 o’clock?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Everything was right but the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Everything you said there was right except the time?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Except the time.
Mr. HUBERT. And you wish to correct your previous testimony insofar as
you stated that you left at 8 o’clock, so that the record will show
that in fact you left at 9 o’clock on Saturday night?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. November 23?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you are telling me the reason you wish to make that
correction is because of what?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Because I remember that after reading the statement that
it was 9 o’clock when I left.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you have an independent recollection of having left
at 9 o’clock instead of 8 o’clock, or are you simply relying upon what
the FBI record shows you must have told them?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, no; it just brought back to my memory that it was
originally set at 8 o’clock that I was going to leave. Then, before
Jack left, he said, “Why don’t you make it 9” and I didn’t want to,
but I said, “Okay,” and that’s when we got in the argument over the
telephone and he wanted me to stay on until 10.
Mr. HUBERT. And at that time I thought you said you went ahead and left
anyhow at 8 o’clock?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, 1 did, but I went ahead and left anyway at 9
o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. So, you were in error the other day when you said that
after the argument with Jack you went ahead and left at 8, the time you
had agreed upon anyhow?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. He wanted you to stay until 10?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You had agreed to stay until 8?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you actually stayed until 9; is that correct?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Mr. Armstrong, have you ever been interviewed before
you met me by any member of the President’s Commission?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, of course, you have testified before me for a
whole day now, almost a half clay, and necessarily there have been
some conversations between us that have not been on the record, not
purposely so, but simply at recess time.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But, even including everything that has occurred, all
conversations between us at recess time or going down the elevator or
one thing or another, is there anything that we discussed at those
recess times which you can remember has not been brought up and
recorded in this deposition?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, we haven’t discussed anything concerning the
business that we was discussing on the record.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you mean we might have discussed things unrelated to
this inquiry?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I’ll just put it this way--I don’t think we have
discussed anything.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t have any recollection of anything at all that we
have discussed?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And in any case, if we might have discussed anything, it
has been brought out on this record?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it fair to state that anyone who would read your
deposition of the other day and today and would read the FBI reports as
to what you told them, which you have said are correct, would have a
true and correct version of all that you know about the matter we have
been talking about?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything that you can think of that is not
contained in either your deposition or the statements that you have
made to the FBI?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you anything else to say, Mr. Armstrong?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not a thing.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, we certainly do thank you.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Thank you.