Mr. HUBERT. I’m talking about the things you say you had observed which
he had not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, about certain things--you see, we had a system
going that one thing that happened was the setups were served in a
glass. If you wanted cold water or whatever you wanted--were served in
a glass with the ice, with about this much room for liquor [indicating].
Mr. HUBERT. By “this much room” you are talking about 2 inches?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; about an inch and a quarter.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. And some customers comes in there quite often and if one
of the waitresses says, “Andrew, this is for so and so--Mr. so and so,
and he wants his drink--he wants his setup filled so and so, in other
words, about a quarter of an inch or an inch from the top, I would do
it that way, because I am trying to satisfy the customer and if Jack
happened to walk to the bar and see it that way, he would get all riled
up because that’s Coca Cola he could be saving, and I never would go
through the procedure of explaining it to him--why I filled it up that
way.
Mr. HUBERT. What you are saying, I think, is that you had more of an
opportunity to observe the likes and dislikes of the customers than he
did?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Than he did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him get angry and actually use physical
violence respecting any patron or anybody at all?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I have seen him grab a couple of men in the club
and throw them out when they was due to leave--when he asked them to.
Mr. HUBERT. And when you say “throw them out,” would you explain what
physical activity was involved?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No more than grabbing a guy and locking him behind his
arm, you know, catching him through the arms this way [indicating],
from behind.
Mr. HUBERT. And hustling him out?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. And hustling him out.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him strike anybody?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I never saw him strike anybody. Of course, it was said
to be a couple of times he did strike someone.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember an occasion when a taxicab driver came in
there looking for someone?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I wasn’t working there then.
Mr. HUBERT. You have heard about that occasion?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I read about it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever hear him threaten to throw any of the girls or
anybody down the stairs of the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. A couple of times, I believe, I have heard him threaten
to throw even a girl down the stairs.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you distinctly remember the incident about the girl,
don’t you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, the one I remember was Diane.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened about that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, Jack always said that Diane bugged him and I said
we couldn’t afford to lose her because she was a good waitress--she
made the club money and I would say he had told Diane that she had 2
weeks’ notice every other night for a whole year--they just didn’t get
along.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, get to the point about threatening to throw her
downstairs.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he had threatened to throw her down the stairs for
some reason or other--I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he start to do it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He never put his hands on her--he didn’t touch her.
Mr. HUBERT. You never saw him put anybody out by the stair route?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No--just the customers.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, when he pushed the customers out, as you explained a
little while ago, he did that by grabbing their arms from the back and
hustling them out, you mean he hustled them downstairs?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just to the door, the stairs door.
Mr. HUBERT. There was a door at the top of the stairs?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. There was a door at the top of the stairs, and he would
automatically give somebody the sign to call the police.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you sleep in the club, ever?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, when I first started to work there when I was
working the two jobs, I slept there so I could get up--I could sleep
longer and be at Marilyn belt factory.
Mr. HUBERT. Do I understand from that, that after you left the factory,
that you didn’t sleep there any more?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. About 3 or 4 weeks--about 3 weeks I did.
Mr. HUBERT. What was Ruby’s habit with respect to arriving at the club
and going home, as far as you could observe?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Unpredictable.
Mr. HUBERT. What?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Unpredictable.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean he didn’t have a special time for calling and
running in and so forth?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; he didn’t have any special time.
Mr. HUBERT. He did call about feeding the dogs every day, didn’t he?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He called.
Mr. HUBERT. That was pretty regular?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I would always call his house when I got to the club
about--anywhere from 12 to 1 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. You would call his house to check in with him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. And then he would probably call me three or four times
that day to see if any calls had come in or if he said, “I’ll be down
to the club at a certain time and you can look for me; I’ll be there
about 2 o’clock or about 3:30.”
Mr. HUBERT. Is it fair to say that this much was routine, when you got
to the club around midday you would call him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That was a routine.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was also a routine that he would call you daily,
three or four times a day, is it not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Whether he came in or not--there was no routine about that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No--there was no routine about that. The most routine he
had was about coming in the club at night.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us about that.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was very seldom there at showtime--that’s 9
o’clock--but he would always be in by 10 o’clock. In other words, he
would always come in between 9 and 10.
Mr. HUBERT. And how long did he stay?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He would close up.
Mr. HUBERT. Which was what time?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Around 1 o’clock, I would say. He would usually spend
more time at the club after the show than anybody else. In other words,
if I was closing up I would be right out; if he was closing up, he
would walk around and he would look for this and he would check that
and just a waste of time--if he had anyone waiting on him they would
probably be gone to sleep before he left.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have to wait until all of this was finished before
you left?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I would always leave before the last show. In other
words, I caught a 1 o’clock bus; I caught the 1 o’clock bus.
Mr. HUBERT. So you weren’t there most of the time when the club closed?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. This settlement you made with him every night was really
before the club closed?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The settlement was for the bar; on week nights, you
didn’t have any bar which was after 12:15 unless it was near-beer or
anything like that, and I usually checked the bar--checked my receipts
and count my money--started about a quarter to 1 and if there were any
sales after I left he would take them himself.
Mr. HUBERT. And that settlement that you and he went through was in his
office, I take it? Or right at the bar?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; you see, I would wrap all the money up and put it in
a bag and wrap a rubberband around it. The change is all that was left,
with a slip in the register of how much change it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Did the register record the sales?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The register recorded the sales.
Mr. HUBERT. What was done with the slip of recordation?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. It was kept in the files.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever check to see whether the amount of sales
checked out with the amount of money that you turned over to him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Every day; if it was a nickel short he would call me
over the phone or he would tell me about it when I called him.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, this checkout would not be done when you
turned over the money to him at night, but, rather, the next day?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. You see, I checked it myself.
Mr. HUBERT. Against the cash register?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Against the cash register.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was supposed to balance out?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. And I gave him the receipts, and anytime I walked up and
gave him a receipt, if I was at least a dollar short or anything like
that, I would say, “It’s a dollar short,” and just go ahead on. I would
just hand him the receipts and he would usually stick them in his coat
pocket and that’s the way it always would happen.
Mr. HUBERT. What about Sundays; did you come over then or did you call
him the same way?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I would call him on Sundays or he would call me. He
would either tell me on Saturday night to wake him up a certain time
on Sunday morning if he was going to get up early; if not, he would
call me. He knew I would always leave anywhere from between 11 and 12
o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where he lived during the time you worked for
him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he lived once on Marsalis, I think it was, right
around the zoo, and I think he lived on Ewing.
Mr. HUBERT. Those are the only two places you know of?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Those are the only two places I know of.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever been to either apartment?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I went to both of them--once each.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he living with anybody at either one?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The only one that I ever knowed that lived with him was
George Senator.
Mr. HUBERT. But you didn’t see George Senator working there, did you;
you didn’t see George Senator living with him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What you know about George Senator living there comes from
what people told you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. From what people told me, and I called and he answered
the phones and things like that, and Jack mentioned the fact that
George kept all the food around and got him to eating again. You see,
he usually was on a diet and certain foods he didn’t eat because he was
on a diet, but if they were around him in his refrigerator he would eat
them.
Mr. HUBERT. Was Jack a pretty strong man?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He went to the gym quite often and exercised; is that
what you mean--physical?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I know he went--I called him at the gym a number of
times. If he would tell me he was on his way to the gym, he would be
there, and that was three times a week, I’m sure.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any opportunity to observe whether he was a
powerful man or not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. So, what you are telling us is he took exercise and went to
a physical exercise club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. He took exercise?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the dogs that he kept there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, there is nothing much about them--just some
dachshunds.
Mr. HUBERT. How many did he have?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, at one time--first he had a little dog named
Sheba, which was half Chihuahua or something, I don’t know what it
were, and she got lost, and they were named Clipper and Sheba.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, he had Sheba right up to the last, didn’t he?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; he had Sheba right up to the last.
Mr. HUBERT. What do you mean, “She got lost”?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, no--I mean Sweetie--the little dog that got lost was
named Sweetie.
Mr. HUBERT. I thought you said Sheba got lost.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sheba and Clipper were the only ones he had then, and
then Sheba had some puppies and they grew back up to about 9 and he
started giving those away and he kept one of those.
Mr. HUBERT. He kept all of those at the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; they weren’t all at the club at one time.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand. What part of the club did he keep the dogs
in, no matter how many he had?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. At the room away at the back--he kept them back there.
Mr. HUBERT. And your job was to feed them?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I fed them every day.
Mr. HUBERT. And he was very strict about that, I take it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was very strict about it. I would feed the, you know,
the little dogs and play with them sometimes.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any opportunity to observe Jack’s attitude
toward women?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No more than any other man, especially a single man.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, he was not married?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; he was always on the make.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he go out any?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You said he was “on the make.”
Mr. ARMSTRONG. All the time.
Mr. HUBERT. With reference to what kind of women?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Intelligent, beautiful.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, do you mean the people who came to the club, or the
waitresses?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, some waitresses, some dancers, and some women that
he had invited to the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he date any of them?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He dated--yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, from him--he told me a few girls he dated, and
there were some girls that told me that they dated him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did any of the girls tell you anything about their sexual
relationship with him, if any?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever tell you about any sexual relationship with any
of them? With women.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No. Not in that sense; no.
Mr. HUBERT. What about his attitude toward men from a sexual point of
view?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He didn’t have any attitude toward men.
Mr. HUBERT. You know what I am talking about--did he have any
tendencies that you could observe of homosexuality?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You know what homosexuality is, don’t you?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I suppose you have seen or met perhaps people who are
alleged to be homosexual?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I suppose, too, that you are able to recognize some of the
characteristics of people who are homosexuals?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have any of the such characteristics?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I could observe.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any reason whatsoever to believe that he was a
homosexual?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No reason at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any reason to believe whatsoever that he had any
kind of sexual perversion? Do you know what I mean by that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not exactly.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, that he had sexual relationships either with women or
men in other than the normal way?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about any possibility of a strange
sexual attitude that he might have had toward these dogs you are
talking about?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No more than he loved them. I know that he would come in
the club and he would lay down and take a nap and the dogs, too--Sheba
would probably be lying very close to him, or one of the other little
dogs, but I had a little dog that I did the same way myself.
Mr. HUBERT. What I’m getting at is his attitude in relationship to
those dogs was that he loved the dogs in the way that any normal man
would love dogs, and no more?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that correct?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the financial condition of the club, as far as you
know?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not good.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, before you expand into that, do you know when it
opened, when the Carousel opened?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t know when the Carousel opened.
Mr. HUBERT. It was open when you went there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. It was open when I went there.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how long it had been open, had you heard?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, the first was in 1961 or I think of 1960--the last
of 1960, because I think there was a prior club during 1960 there.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the Carousel had been in existence as such
and under that name for about 18 months before you went with it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I believe so.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, why do you think the financial condition of the club
was not good?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, there was--compared to the other two clubs it
was not good, because the other two clubs--the Theatre Lounge and the
Colony Club--they did a lot more business than the Carousel did.
Mr. HUBERT. When you said they did more business, you mean they had
more people in there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. That would mean, I suppose, something--that there were more
customers than the other place, but was the Carousel making money or
losing money?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I would say it was making enough to pay the bills
and paying overhead.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever talk to Jack about that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; he would always--if we had a month of good business,
he would say, “Business is picking up,” you know.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever make a calculation yourself--I don’t mean
necessarily by putting it down in writing, but by thinking about what
you knew had come in and what you knew had gone out, to figure out
whether it was making or losing money?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, it was making a little, but how much I don’t know.
It lost after the assassination, because I handled all that--all the
receipts then.
Mr. HUBERT. What do you suppose were the average receipts that you know
of, at least, for a week from the time you were there until Ruby went
to jail?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Per week--for a week-- oh, I would say about an average
of $900--or a $1,000.
Mr. HUBERT. Would that include Sunday nights’ receipts?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That would include Sunday night’s.
Mr. HUBERT. How would you know about Sunday night?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sunday was always a bad night--I would always know what
was the receipts on Sunday night.
Mr. HUBERT. You weren’t in there.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. But I would always know--I would be the one to file the
receipts.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Ralph Paul?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us what you know about him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I know that he is a very nice gentleman, a good
businessman and didn’t want to be bothered with the Carousel.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have any interest in the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; none whatsoever.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Financial interest?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; financial interest.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir, I’m pretty sure he had financial interest, but
I don’t know how much it was.
Mr. HUBERT. When you said a minute ago he had no interest, you meant
interest in running it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Interest in running the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he own a part of the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, he owned a part of the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how much?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I don’t know how much it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any sharing of profits with him that you observed?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I never observed any.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as a matter of fact, didn’t he come there, several
times a week?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Usually, he came in on Saturday night, if he came in. I
never saw him there over one or two times.
Mr. HUBERT. Other than Saturday night?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Other than Saturday night.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see Jack give him any money?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Never did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him go back to the back room and discuss
matters--or just go back with Jack?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I saw him in the office talking and watching television.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, what makes you believe he had a financial interest?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Because he told me--he told me he had a financial
interest in it and Jack said he had a financial interest.
Mr. HUBERT. Then, both Paul and Ruby told you that Paul had a financial
interest in it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack told me that he didn’t have no financial interest
in the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Paul told you that he did, but Jack told you that he did
not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack told me that Ralph Paul had a financial interest in
the club, but he, himself, did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Oh, that Jack himself did not?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did you--did he tell you whether Paul was the only
one who had a financial interest, or were there other people?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he said that it was this Mr. Paul and one of his
brothers.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say which one?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sam Ruby, I think, he said.
Mr. HUBERT. The one that lives in Dallas?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him around there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Once--once or twice he came down to help out--once he
came down to help out and he came in two other times that I remember.
Mr. HUBERT. So, in other words, Jack denied that he had any interest in
the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir; right.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his relationship, then, to the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, as manager only.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he get a salary, do you know?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. He said he got a salary, but I don’t know how much.
Mr. HUBERT. Other than the two or three times that Sam Ruby came in,
did you ever see him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Did I ever see Sam Ruby?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I never saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see Ralph, other than the times you saw him at
the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Never did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever hear of the S&R Corp.?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your understanding of the relationship between
that corporation and the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, it was known as the S&R Corp. doing business as
the Carousel, is the way the thing was supposed to be, and as far
as the corporation was concerned, I understand that Ralph Paul was
president, Sam Ruby was secretary-vice president and there was somebody
else who was--well, I believe Sam Ruby was secretary-treasurer, and
Jack was the manager, or something like that at one time, and then at
another time, Jack wasn’t even the manager.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, it was after all this happened.
Mr. HUBERT. Oh, yes.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. We were trying to find the corporation papers and he
took his name off as being manager of the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. Did George Senator work at the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sometimes he did.
Mr. HUBERT. How often?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, I would say he had been there 15 or 20 times working
as a doorman.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you mean 15 or 20 times during the 18 months you
were there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. During the 18 months that I was there.
Mr. HUBERT. That would be about once a month?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. About once--but I think it mostly came in a short period
of time when he had worked there.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the 15 or 18 or 20 times he did come was
not on an average of once a month, but in a sequence of days?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So that there were lots of times he was never around there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. How often do you suppose you have seen him?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Quite often.
Mr. HUBERT. More than the 15 or 20 times that you saw him at the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he was at the club lots of times when he was not
working.
Mr. HUBERT. The 18 or 20 times--you mean were the times he worked?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. He was at the club more often than that?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. How often, as a matter of fact?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, once or twice a week, I would say.
Mr. HUBERT. What would he do then?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, just come in and have a beer.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he stay around a long time?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. And visit with friends.
Mr. HUBERT. Would he stay around a long time and go home with Jack?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Lots of times he was there when I left, and lots
of times he left before I left, and I have seen him lots of times
working, you know, he had this Texas Postcard thing and I would see him
downtown. As a matter of fact, I helped him move the postcards from
where--from some place out in Highland Park over to Cedar Springs here.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about his relationship in a sexual way
toward men?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I sure don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. In your own opinion, you wouldn’t think he would be
classified as a homosexual?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. He showed no traits such as you recognize them on
homosexuality?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. None whatsoever.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Eva Grant?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir; in a sort of a way.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, tell us what sort of way?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I have talked to her on the telephone more times
than I have seen her--a number of times more than I have seen her.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times do you suppose you have seen her in the 18
months you have worked there prior to Jack’s arrest?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Fifty times, I guess.
Mr. HUBERT. You talked to her on the telephone far more that 50
times--3 or 4 times more?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you see her when you usually saw her?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. The first time I saw her was at the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you work at the Vegas, too?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us what you know about the ownership and operation of
the Vegas?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Nothing; not a thing.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack have any interest in it that you heard of--I know
you wouldn’t know about any books or anything like that.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he told me he owned the club.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s what I mean--so far as what you know about it, you
got from him, and that was to the effect that he owned it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That he owned it--right.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you know about the relationship of Eva Grant to
the Vegas Club.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. That she was just running the club. She was his sister
and she was taking care of the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack go over there very often?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t know. On Friday and Saturday nights they usually
have a little amateur show over there and we went over there every
Friday night, but that stopped, oh, sometime in the latter part of
1963, and I don’t know whether he went over there often then or not. He
would call me a few times from over there.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, the 50 or 60 times you saw her, Eva Grant, would it
have been at the Vegas or the Carousel?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I had saw her more times since the assassination
than I did before the assassination.
Mr. HUBERT. Very well, but the 50 times or so you saw her from the time
you first went to work, would that include the number of times you have
seen her since the assassination?