The testimony of Ira N. Walker, Jr., was taken at 1 p.m., on April 15,
1964, at the Post Office Building, Fort Worth, Tex., by Mr. Leon D.
Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Ira N. Walker, Jr.
Mr. Walker, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory
staff of the General Counsel of the President’s Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy.
Under the provisions of President Johnson’s Executive Order 11130,
dated November 29, 1963, the Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137, and
the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission, in conformance with
that Executive order and that joint resolution, I have been authorized
to take a sworn deposition from you, Mr. Walker.
I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission’s inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relative to the
assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of
Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Walker, the nature of the inquiry today
is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and
any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry,
and particularly about the whereabouts of Jack Ruby near the Police
Department Building in Dallas on November 24.
Now, Mr. Walker, I believe you appeared here today by virtue of a
request made in writing to you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel of
the President’s Commission. For the record, would you state whether you
received that letter?
Mr. WALKER. I did; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When?
Mr. WALKER. Must have been last Friday.
Mr. HUBERT. It was in excess of 3 days ago?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, so would you mind taking the oath?
Mr. WALKER. I will.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Mr. WALKER. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state your name, please, sir.
Mr. WALKER. Ira N. Walker, Jr.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your age, sir?
Mr. WALKER. Thirty-five.
Mr. HUBERT. And your address?
Mr. WALKER. 6913 Hightower.
Mr. HUBERT. Fort Worth?
Mr. WALKER. Fort Worth.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Mr. WALKER. Broadcast technician.
Mr. HUBERT. What station?
Mr. WALKER. WBAP-TV.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. WALKER. Since 1948.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on duty in Dallas in connection with the visit of
the President of the United States on November 22?
Mr. WALKER. I was on duty after the assassination of the President.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you first go on duty?
Mr. WALKER. In Dallas, the afternoon of the shooting. We went to
Parkland Hospital.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say, “we,” who do you mean?
Mr. WALKER. Our remote crew truck and crew of about four of five of us,
the first day.
Mr. HUBERT. You say a remote truck? Is that one of those trucks like a
Greyhound bus that you haul the equipment?
Mr. WALKER. It is a little smaller than that, but it is the same.
Mr. HUBERT. What does your crew generally consist of? Or what did it
consist of during that period we are talking about?
Mr. WALKER. Well, the first day, that was a rush deal and there wasn’t
but four of us available, I think. And the second day, there was
probably about eight of us, I imagine.
Mr. HUBERT. Now the first day, you mean the first day after the
President’s assassination?
Mr. WALKER. Yes. Just after the assassination we took the truck with
the men available and went.
Mr. HUBERT. That was on the 22d?
Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So when you talk about the first day, you mean the day of
the assassination?
Mr. WALKER. The day of the assassination.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say you “took” and “went,” did you go from Fort
Worth?
Mr. WALKER. From Fort Worth.
Mr. HUBERT. To Parkland Hospital?
Mr. WALKER. We had already been to the President’s breakfast here in
Fort Worth, and I covered that for radio here in Fort Worth. There was
a crew with the TV truck here in Fort Worth, and they had already gone
home at the time the President was assassinated, and I was still on
duty, and they were called back in.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, could you name for us the people who were on the
remote truck on the first day after the assassination of the President?
That is to say, November 22.
Mr. WALKER. Well, let’s see, Johnny Smith and Warren Richey.
Mr. HUBERT. And yourself?
Mr. WALKER. And myself, and Dan Smith went that first day, I think. I
don’t think he went any more.
Mr. HUBERT. Now each of you all had a definite function to perform, of
course?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. So that we get it for the record and need not repeat it
with the other witnesses, tell us the functions of each one of you on
the truck.
Mr. WALKER. I was to handle audio, Johnny Smith was the video engineer,
and the other two men were cameramen.
Mr. HUBERT. One of them drove the truck, I take it? Or did you have
another man to drive?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; Johnny Smith was driving the larger truck, and I was
in the little panel truck. And Supervisor Tom Bedford was driving the
panel truck.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that on the first day?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, let’s pass to the second day. That is to say, Saturday
the 23d. And by way of orientation, let me state that by that time, of
course, the President was dead and Oswald had been charged both with
the assassination of Officer Tippit and President Kennedy, and was
in custody at the Dallas Police Department Building on Commerce, the
building bounded by Commerce and Main on two sides, and Harwood on the
front.
Now, on that second day, the 23d, did you have occasion to be on duty
with the remote truck that day?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; I was.
Mr. HUBERT. All day long?
Mr. WALKER. Well, we were called out of bed at 1 o’clock Saturday
morning. Let’s see, we burnt the engine up on the remote truck going to
Parkland Hospital the day before, and it had to be towed over there by
a wrecker, and I don’t know exactly what time we got to the Dallas City
Hall. It was probably something like 3 in the morning.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you park the truck, the remote truck?
Mr. WALKER. On the south side. That would be on Commerce Street, I
believe. Right in front of the entrance.
Mr. HUBERT. The Commerce Street entrance?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How far away from the front, if you remember, roughly?
Mr. WALKER. Let’s see, there was, I believe, another remote truck
between our truck and the corner.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say the corner of Commerce and Harwood?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You were closer to the Commerce Street entrance than that
truck was?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; we were directly in front of the Commerce Street
stairway.
Mr. HUBERT. The Commerce Street exit from the basement is just beyond
the Commerce Street stairway in the direction of Pearl Street, the
Pearl Expressway?
Mr. WALKER. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. So I suppose it is fair to say that the front of your truck
was not far from the Commerce Street exit?
Mr. WALKER. Well, the front of our truck was--there was just room
enough for a motorcycle to park between the front of our truck and the
driveway going to the basement of the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. Of course, you had cameras on the inside, I take it?
Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And on the outside, too?
Mr. WALKER. And one on top of the truck.
Mr. HUBERT. Did the truck stay there all that day?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; it stayed there all that day and that night.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the next day, the 24th?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; it was there all day the 24th up until, let’s see, I
won’t tell you--I want to tell you very much, but this is very hard.
That was a lost week for me. We slept very little, and most of the time
I couldn’t even tell you what day it was over there, so it is difficult
to say.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s put it this way. To your knowledge, the truck never
moved from its position as you have described it on Commerce Street
until after the assassination of Oswald?
Mr. WALKER. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on duty continuously?
Mr. WALKER. The first day on Saturday, let’s see, we came in at--they
woke us up about a little after 1 in the morning, and I was there
until, I know, after 10 that night.
Mr. HUBERT. Saturday night?
Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir; I was going to bring that schedule with me and I
forgot. It was in last year’s book.
Mr. HUBERT. Then at what time did you go to work on Sunday morning?
Mr. WALKER. I don’t remember. It was early, but I don’t remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say it was daylight?
Mr. WALKER. It was right at daylight, I imagine. There was only one
day that we came in late, and I believe it was later on in the week.
We were over there early every morning except one, and we came in at
9 o’clock, that morning, but I believe it was later on on Monday or
Tuesday.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Jack Ruby or of his existence prior to, say,
the assassination of the President?
Mr. WALKER. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you first see a man that you now know to be Jack
Ruby, if you did see such a man?
Mr. WALKER. I did see him, and I would say it was sometime after 10:30
in the morning that Oswald was shot.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, of the 24th?
Mr. WALKER. Let’s see; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now you didn’t know him at the time you saw him?
Mr. WALKER. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state for the record just how you came to see
this person?
Mr. WALKER. I was sitting in the truck at the audio board. We were
waiting for Oswald to be brought down. The press had been told he would
not be transferred until after 10:30 in the morning. That is the only
thing I can tie the time down to, because we were on a standby basis
waiting for Oswald to be moved, and Ruby came to the window of the
truck and asked, “Has he been brought down yet?” He was standing on the
sidewalk.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t know him to be Ruby at that time?
Mr. WALKER. No; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us how he was dressed?
Mr. WALKER. No; I can’t. All I could see was his face. It is a very
small window. We have curtains, and I think it was one corner unsnapped.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have a hat on?
Mr. WALKER. I don’t know. He came to the window twice.
Mr. HUBERT. How far apart were the two times?
Mr. WALKER. I do not know. It was after 10:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you think he could have come to the window earlier than
10:30?
Mr. WALKER. I don’t know. I don’t believe at the time I saw him at the
window, well, I am almost sure it was after 10:30, because I know I was
sitting there. We were on a standby basis and waiting, and he did not
mention Oswald’s name, that I can remember.
It was, he just said, “Has he been brought down yet?” And everybody
knew who he was talking about, or I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Now have you seen Ruby since?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times, do you suppose?
Mr. WALKER. I don’t know. It was over--I was a witness during the
trial. I saw him before I was a witness, and I saw them bring him into
the courtroom one morning.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, all the times you saw him were in
connection with your function as a TV man covering the trial?
Mr. WALKER. No, sir; I was asked by the district attorney’s office to
go look at Jack Ruby through the door of the courtroom prior to being a
witness, to make sure that he was the same man that I saw come to the
truck. And then I saw him while I was a witness.
Mr. HUBERT. When you did look through the door at the district
attorney’s request and saw Jack Ruby, what opinion did you reach?
Mr. WALKER. I knew it was the same man.
Mr. HUBERT. And you subsequently saw him in the court when you
testified?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you willing to say that the same man who was Jack Ruby
in the courtroom was the man whom you described as coming up to the
window?
Mr. WALKER. That was the same thing I told the Dallas district
attorney, that the only reason I remember Jack Ruby is because within
minutes after the shooting we had mug shots of Ruby on camera from the
third floor of the city hall. And if it hadn’t been for those mug shots
being in such a close time after he came to the window, I probably
would never have remembered seeing him.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you tell us the mental process you went through in
relating the face at the window to the mug shots?
Mr. WALKER. Well, about four of us pointed at him at the same time in
the truck. I mean, we all recognized him at the same time.
Mr. HUBERT. As being the man?
Mr. WALKER. That had come to the truck.
Mr. HUBERT. It is your thought that that man who had peeked through the
window had done so only a matter of minutes before, or would it have
been an hour?
Mr. WALKER. I can’t say. I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. But as you sit here now, your best impression is
that--better still, your opinion is that the man who did look through
that window and asked you, “Have they brought him down yet?” was Jack
Ruby?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. As a matter of fact, you have confirmed that a number of
times, to wit, almost immediately after when you saw the mug shots on
TV, and then at least on two other occasions when you looked in through
the window in the courtroom, and again when you were face to face with
him in the courtroom?
Mr. WALKER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there any possibility that your seeing him as you have
described it through the window, could have been on the previous day?
Mr. WALKER. No. He may have been there, but I don’t remember him.
Mr. HUBERT. This event that you are talking about did not take place on
the previous day?
Mr. WALKER. No. I have heard people say that he was on, that they had
seen him on the sidewalk, but I did not, to my knowledge. There were so
many people; a lot of people asked questions, and most of the time I
say, “I don’t know,” hoping they will go on.
Mr. HUBERT. As I understand, the thing that makes it certain in your
mind that he was Jack Ruby is because of the association of the face
that peered to you in the window and the mug shots that came through
the camera right after?
Mr. WALKER. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. The two link together in your mind?
Mr. WALKER. That is the only thing. I would not have remembered him if
it had not been for the mug shots. There were so many people, there is
no way I believe that I could have remembered him. And if he hadn’t
come back to the window the second time, I might not have linked it
with the mug shots.
Mr. HUBERT. How much time was there, do you think, between the two
times?
Mr. WALKER. I don’t know. I really don’t. I wish I could help but
anything I’d say would be a wild guess.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Walker, I want to show you a report of an interview
that was had of you by FBI Agents Earle Haley and Robley D. Madland on
December 4, 1963, which I have marked for identification as Fort Worth,
Tex., April 15, 1964, Exhibit 5315, deposition of Ira Walker, under
which I have signed my name. I would like you to read it, sir, after
which I am going to ask you if there are any errors or any corrections
you want to make, anything that has been omitted, or modifications that
you believe to be necessary.