Mr. GRIFFIN. You have crossed out one mark and you made a big circle
which you blacked in, on the railing.
Mr. BEERS. May I draw an arrow to point where I was standing?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay.
Mr. BEERS. So it will be much clearer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time would you estimate it was when you stationed
yourself at point 1?
Mr. BEERS. Probably 9:15 or 9:20.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain at that position?
Mr. BEERS. According to the time which we received, and which Mr. Ruby
shot Mr. Oswald, which would be somewhere around 11:21, or thereabouts,
I probably remained there until about 11:25.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you remained there right at that spot right up until
the shooting?
Mr. BEERS. And through the shooting and for a few moments thereafter.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. BEERS. A few minutes thereafter.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall an automobile moving out of the ramp? I mean
out of the garage area and going up the Main Street ramp shortly before
Mr. Oswald was shot?
Mr. BEERS. Yes; there was an armored car parked in the driveway near
the top of the Commerce Street entrance, and there was a black squad
car, I believe I am correct, that backed up the ramp to Main Street in
the direction of Main Street. I didn’t look right up there and see what
he did. He never came back down the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a car that you recall driving onto Main Street?
Mr. BEERS. It backed up onto Main Street, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. BEERS. It backed from the basement and backed up Main Street toward
what would be the entrance way to the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before that car was moved, was backed up onto the Main
Street ramp, do you recall any car driving in a forward direction up
the Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. No; I don’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall how much traffic there was in and out of the
basement while you were stationed there?
Mr. BEERS. There was several police cars that came into the basement
and out, and if I remember correctly, after this armored car was
stationed there. I don’t recall that there were any other squad cars
that came into the basement.
The reason I recall them was because they were stopping there just
about right where I was standing and looking into the back seats and so
forth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall a TV camera being wheeled into the basement
shortly before Jack Ruby shot Oswald?
Mr. BEERS. No, sir; I don’t. A big live camera?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. BEERS. I don’t recall seeing that. I may have, but I don’t recall
seeing it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now at the time that Oswald was brought out, do you recall
how people were, newspeople and policemen, were stationed in the
basement? Do you recall roughly how they were spread out?
Mr. BEERS. Roughly, they were asked to get into somewhat of an L-shaped
position here, which would be that the news people would be across the
driveway like so, and this area here in front of the cameras was more
or less open.
There was some people moving back over here in this area just a little
bit, and then from approximately right in front of myself to up this
ramp, towards the Commerce Street exit was roughly the position that
the, this was the position people were asked to get into, that they
assumed that, roughly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you have any recollection if the people were more
densely stationed along the Main Street ramp than along the area in
front of the entrance to the garage, or vice versa, or were they more
densely stationed in front of the garage than elsewhere?
Mr. BEERS. They were probably a little more concentrated right across
the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. Not here. They were fairly well strung out this way
[pointing]. I couldn’t see too far up this ramp here without leaning
out and around and looking up this post, but from my observation, they
were fairly well strung out up toward the Commerce Street exit there
for a number of feet or yards.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall how many persons deep the people were that
were strung across the Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. I am sure that would vary from two to maybe five.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, could there have been as few as 15 people strung
across the Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. There was probably more--actually, they came around this
corner just a little bit and almost up to this door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are pointing towards the entrance of the jail office?
Mr. BEERS. The entrance to the jail office; yes. There were actually
a few at the corner there, and strung out across there, and I didn’t
particularly look over in that area because I was concentrating most
of my attention towards the jail office door, because we didn’t know
exactly what time they would be coming out, and we didn’t know what, if
any, advance warning we would have, so I didn’t dare look around too
much. I had already seen everybody I wanted to see, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have occasion to look up the Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. I did look up there earlier.
Mr. GRIFFIN. From where you were in the basement, was it possible to
see anybody up at the top of the Main Street ramp?
Mr. BEERS. There was a policeman standing up at the top of the ramp up
there. Looked like he was out on the sidewalk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was the visibility such that his features were
distinguishable?
Mr. BEERS. No; it was a silhouette.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us what kind of advance warning you had that
Oswald was coming down?
Mr. BEERS. I believe there were some of the news media in this hallway
which I pointed out, that goes from the elevator to the Harwood Street
side of the city hall, and the hallway goes past the jail office and
goes into the police parking area.
I believe there were some members of the news media in the hall in
front of the window of the jail office, and someone, I think, shouted,
“Oh, here he comes.”
Then there was just a lot of noise and the door opened and he came in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You indicated in your interview with the Federal Bureau
of Investigation that you felt sure that if you had seen Ruby in the
basement you would have recognized him?
Mr. BEERS. Yes, sir; I know his face that well; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it from that, that the lighting conditions were
such and the people were spread out thinly enough so that you were in a
position from where you were to have seen the man?
Mr. BEERS. Television camera had a bank or two banks, I don’t remember
which, of light, and the lighting was adequate in there.
However, there was a considerable number of people and quite an amount
of confusion.
It is possible he could have been in there and I had not seen him, but
had I seen him, there was enough light for me to have recognized him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you taking any pictures before it became apparent
Oswald was being brought down?
Mr. BEERS. I think I made up earlier, looked up towards the Commerce
Street entrance that showed either one or two policemen in silhouette
at the top of that ramp there.
I believe I made one negative, and I believe that it was one or two
policemen up there. There was at least an officer there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you indicated earlier that you had first met Jack Ruby
18 months before in connection with some freelance work that you were
doing. Can you tell us what that was?
Mr. BEERS. Mr. Bayse, Dale Bayse was doing a story, speculating as
to being able to sell this story, and needed some photographers to
illustrate it.
His information to me was that Mr. Ruby had a stripper school, and
that he would like to have some pictures of these, of this school, and
these people involved in the school, the supposed instructors and the
supposed students, to illustrate this article with.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mr. Bayse ever sell the story?
Mr. BEERS. I believe that story he showed me a copy of Adam Magazine. I
believe that was probably December 1962.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How much time did you spend at Jack Ruby’s place of
business taking photographs?
Mr. BEERS. That particular day, which was the only time I was there in
his place, I spent from approximately 11 o’clock until must have been
around 7. It was dark when I went outside.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you visit only the Carousel Club? Or also the Vegas
Club?
Mr. BEERS. Just the Carousel Club; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you still have any of the photographs?
Mr. BEERS. Yes, sir; I do. I supplied the FBI with one or two sets of
those photographs, and I do have some still available.
I would like to inject here that I was introduced to Mr. Ruby on
this particular day, which was my first meeting with him, and--but
throughout the day I had little or no conversation with him.
He was negotiating with Mr. Bayse.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he actually running the school for strippers or was
this a promotion idea?
Mr. BEERS. Mr. Griffin, this is an opinion. I don’t think Mr. Ruby
actually ran a stripper school.
As I worked throughout the day, it seemed fairly apparent to me that
there was no school in operation there, I don’t think. That is strictly
an opinion.
Mr. Ruby did run an amateur night, and from what information I think I
absorbed there, it appeared that these girls must have, part of them
practiced in some of his amateur and semiregularly at his place, and it
didn’t appear to be a school.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he running an amateur night at the time you were
taking these photographs?
Mr. BEERS. I was not familiar with the club prior to that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But at the time you took these photographs, did you have
the understanding that he had run an amateur night?
Mr. BEERS. I got that impression; yes, sir, that he had some amateur
nights there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. During the period of November 22, 23, and 24, were you
aware of newspaper people who were operating in the Dallas area on the
freelance basis?
Mr. BEERS. You say was I aware that there were some operating on a
freelance basis?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; were you aware of any such people?
Mr. BEERS. Not particularly.
I ran into one photographer who was a local man, who I understand was
freelancing and had received an assignment from Paris Match, a French
magazine, and to the best of my knowledge, I don’t recall--I am sure
there were some here, but I don’t recall meeting any that I absolutely
knew were on a freelance basis.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I am interested in finding out is if there is any
practice that a freelance person follows in hooking up with a network,
or somebody who can pay him, whether he makes a commitment in advance
to work, or whether he is just down there for shooting pictures or
trying to gather information and selling it as he gets it?
Are you familiar enough with what the practice generally is for
freelance people in a situation, developing news situations such as we
had in this period, to be able to state how a freelance photographer or
newspapermen would operate?
Mr. BEERS. In instances such as occurred there, as the assassination
of the President, there are some photographers in Dallas who operate
on a freelance basis, and also some of them, the same people possibly
operate on a stringer basis. This is someone who is known in the
area by a news agency or a particular magazine or newspaper, and if
something occurred in that area, the people by whom he is known, could
possibly contact him and tell him to cover this story, either by
himself, or until some of their people could arrive on the scene.
I am sure there were some such people operating there. I don’t know
just exactly who it might be.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will ask you one final question. Has anything come
to your attention having to do with either Jack Ruby or with the
assassination of President Kennedy, or anything else that you might
think would be of importance to the Commission that you think you
should make available to us?
I do want to encourage you in this respect because I don’t know that I
have covered everything that you might have.
Mr. BEERS. I have tried to insert what I thought, what little
information or comments I might have to make. I can’t recall that I
have learned anything additional since this happened that is not common
knowledge to everyone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Now, let me also ask you, for the record, whether prior to commencing
this deposition you have talked with anybody from the Commission?
I am not talking about the FBI agents, but any staff member of the
Commission other than myself?
Mr. BEERS. No; I have had no contact with anyone from the Warren
Commission except over the telephone when I was notified and they
verified my address so they could mail me a notice to appear here.
I might go back and add, as far as my acquaintance with Jack Ruby is
concerned, I met him that particular day, and I have seen him in the
halls of the Dallas News in that 18-month period four times probably.
And I think Jack recalled that my first name was Jack, but not until I
testified in his change of venue hearing.