Mr. McMILLON. This is typed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of a handwritten? Now, would you indicate, then, on this
typed copy, which we have, where the date is, would you cross--was the
actual copy of the letter dated November 27?
Mr. McMILLON. I wrote it on the, 24th, and apparently this is when the
girl typed it, on the 27th.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you circle that date, “27th,” and indicate on there
that it was actually written by hand on the 24th?
Mr. McMILLON. All right, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Detective McMillon, you have been good enough to bring
here with you a copy of this original handwritten letter. Can the
commission have this copy?
Mr. McMILLON. Not that one, but I am sure that it will be available to
you.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If we made a copy of this, had this copied and gave it
back to you, could we then retain it?
Mr. McMILLON. No. I would rather you get that from the department. That
is Captain Nichols’, a copy that he had in his office, but I am sure he
will give it to you.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. You don’t even want to let us copy it without
getting his permission?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Will you call him before you leave here and ask
him if we can copy this?
Mr. McMILLON. Sure. You can call him right now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No. Let’s get on with it.
Mr. McMILLON. I want any permission to come from them. I don’t want the
responsibility of giving out departmental stuff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I understand. You say that Captain Nichols told you to
prepare a report of what happened?
Mr. McMILLON. He instructed everybody to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, have you--has any information come into your
possession or did you know at the time whether Captain Nichols was
acting on his own or whether other department heads had been instructed?
Mr. McMILLON. I didn’t know at the time when he instructed us if that
was his own or if he had been instructed to have us do same.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is Captain Nichols the head of the auto theft bureau?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, he is.
(Discussion off of the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. That was Assistant Chief Batchelor, and I asked him if
I could have permission to copy it, and he said “Okay.” Is that good
enough for you?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me do this right now. Let me take the copy of it and
give it to one of our girls and ask her to take it and get a copy of
it. Excuse me. Do you know, Detective McMillon, if people in any of the
other bureaus were asked to make reports on the 24th?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know. I am sure some of them were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh. Now, let me mark for identification a document
which purports to be the report of an interview conducted with you by
Special Agents George W. H. Carlson and Paul H. Scott of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. I will mark this, “Dallas, Texas, Detective
McMillon, 3-25-64,” and this will be Exhibit 5019. Have you had a
chance, to read over what is marked Exhibit 5019?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you have any additions or corrections you want to
make in that?
Mr. McMILLON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Would you take these three exhibits? You have
signed the first one. Would you sign and date Exhibit 5018 and Exhibit
5019?
Mr. McMILLON. Where do you want them signed?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any appropriate place where you have got space.
Mr. McMILLON. The reason I am looking through this--one second.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. McMILLON. See, there are two FBI reports, is that right?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Right.
Mr. McMILLON. And then the copy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of your report?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes. You are missing one copy, one other statement that I
made.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am? Now, can you get a copy of that for us?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know if I can or not. The department has it. I am
sure it is available to us, because they had it during the trial.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. McMILLON. It is in this statement that I corrected this other stuff
here in my original report.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It would be easier for us if you would go back to whoever
has custody of those, whoever has the responsibility for it, and then
ask if you can get a copy of it and ask if you can send it to us.
Mr. McMILLON. I will.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am sure that you won’t have any difficulty getting it.
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t think so. I thought probably you would have it
attached to it. I am sure they probably still have that typed in court.
It is a typewritten report that I made to two lieutenants, department.
The third was wrote out; the second one was the two FBI agents; the
third one was the one you are missing; the fourth one is this FBI
report that you have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to move away from the reports, go back to what
happened on the 24th. As I understand it from the reports that I have
marked here for identification, you remained with Ruby from the time
that he was brought into the jail office until about 3:30 in the
afternoon. Is that correct?
Mr. McMILLON. I was with Ruby from the time that I first grabbed an
arm out there and the scuffle followed; I was with him from that point
until about 3:30 in the afternoon, and during this time that I was
with him on the fifth floor until 3:30 in the afternoon, I was away at
different times for short intervals.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you got Ruby up to the fifth floor, was he
dressed?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did there come a time when you searched him
thoroughly and undressed him?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you present during that time?
Mr. McMILLON. During part of that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who else was present?
Mr. McMILLON. Detective Archer, Detective Clardy, some of the jail
personnel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were you present when his pockets were emptied out?
Mr. McMILLON. I believe that I was. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether or not he had a wallet on him at
that time or not?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t recall definitely, but I don’t believe that he
did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Try to think as best you can, now. What was--what do you
remember being taken off of his person at that time?
Mr. McMILLON. I know that there was some money. You mean in addition to
the clothing?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McMILLON. I know that he had some money on him; I know that he had
two post card deals on him, in his property at the jail, that had these
“Impeach Earl Warren” deals on them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Two post cards?
Mr. McMILLON. Two pieces of paper. The best I remember, they were
pieces of paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could they have been photographs?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to him or did you hear anybody talk to him
about these photographs?
Mr. McMILLON. It came out later on in the conversation up in the jail,
I believe that he had gone out and photographed them, I believe, but
anyway he mentioned this Bernard Weissman, something that he had read
about a derogatory article that he had read in the paper, he had tried
to run that down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let me ask you this. Were you present when Agent Hall
of the FBI interviewed him?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, part of the time. I was in and out for some short
intervals. Phone calls, we will say, rest room, away for things like
that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Now, I don’t want you to tell me about anything that
happened right this moment while Hall was conducting the interview.
Now, were you also present when Sorrels----
Mr. McMILLON. When he first came up?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I don’t want you to tell me anything right at this
point about what was said when Sorrels was there.
Mr. McMILLON. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you there all of the time that agent--not agent but
Sergeant Dean was there?
Mr. McMILLON. No. I was away during one of those intervals. I was there
part of the time. I was there when Sorrels brought Dean up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you there when Dean left?
Mr. McMILLON. I am sure I was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you there when Sorrels left?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, I believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Between the time that Sorrels left and the time Dean left,
did you leave at any time?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes. I was away during the time that Sorrels and Dean
were there with him. I had gone around to attend to some other
little detail. I didn’t hear what it was. I didn’t hear all of their
conversation. I heard part of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Dean and Sorrels leave together?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know whether they did or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don’t want you to tell me anything that was said when
Dean was there or when Sorrels was there. Now, with reference to these
pictures and the Bernard Weissman statement, was that made--did you
hear him talk about that at any time when Hall, Dean or Sorrels were
not there? In other words, when was it that you heard them talked about?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know at what point during the day that it was.
There was so much conversation, I don’t remember at what point during
the day that that was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. When his pockets were emptied, did people
immediately begin to question him about these items that were found in
his pockets?
Mr. McMILLON. We didn’t attempt to question the man or to interrogate
him at all; it was more in the line of conversation. What Clardy or
Archer or I had to say to him, it wasn’t in the form of interrogation,
it was in the form of conversation. We knew that it wasn’t our business
or place to try to. We felt we were there strictly for security.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you three, Archer, Clardy, and you, were you the
ones that stripped his clothes and took the property out of his pockets?
Mr. McMILLON. We assisted in it. There was some jailers assisting us,
too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you removed the contents of his pockets, what
did you do with that material?
Mr. McMILLON. As best I remember, we gave it to a jailer. I recall that
a hat was sent up to the jail. I had lost mine during the scuffle. A
hat was sent up to the jail. They thought it was mine. I recall seeing
some of that property placed in his hat, but I can’t remember for sure.
I know it was turned over to authorized jail personnel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was turned over to some jailer?
Mr. McMILLON. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is that the normal procedure, when a man is stripped,
to turn it over to a jailer?
Mr. McMILLON. His property?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. McMILLON. Oh, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, whose responsibility was it to fill out an inventory
at that point?
Mr. McMILLON. It would have been the jailer’s, and it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you didn’t fill out an inventory on it?
Mr. McMILLON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if any keys were taken out of his pocket?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you examine those keys?
Mr. McMILLON. Not at this particular point. I can explain that right
now, if you want me to go into it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, I would.
Mr. McMILLON. Okay. Later in the afternoon, one of the lieutenants,
I believe it was, instructed me to take the keys from his property,
to meet, I believe, Lieutenant Smart and Lieutenant Swain with those
keys so they could get into his car. I took those keys and went to
where they had told me that I would find them. I believe it was on the
parking lot in front of the Western Union. I walked down there, and I
couldn’t find them. I returned to the jail, and I was later able to
determine that they had already gotten the car and had impounded it and
had taken care of that, so the keys weren’t needed, so I took the keys
back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The keys that you had, was it clear to you that this key
chain had a car key on it?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, I believe so. I am not sure, but I mean I am sure
that it was, whether I took it for granted or what, but I assumed that
there was a key on it that fit the car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Ruby about whether there was a key on it
that fit the car?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t recall. Possibly may have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any information at the time you got a hold of
these keys as to whether the car was locked or unlocked?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t remember that. It had come up in the conversation
some way that he had a dog in the car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how did that come up?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t remember that, but maybe Jack asked us to take
care of his dog or something like that. I don’t know. I made no note of
it after I had found that they had impounded the car, that that matter
had been taken care of, and I felt like that ended our responsibility
or it was someone else’s responsibility, other than the three of us
remaining there as security there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, during the time that Dean and Sorrels
were present, was at least one of the other three of you, Archer,
Clardy, and you, present with Ruby?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, I believe so, probably most of the time and probably
it would have been Archer more, because I was running about the jail
taking care of some of the details. I was away for short periods of
time, so I didn’t hear all of the conversation.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you--by the time Dean and Sorrels left, what
information did you have as to how Ruby had gotten into the basement?
Mr. McMILLON. They had already come out by then and had just walked
right straight down the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did that come to your attention?
Mr. McMILLON. Let me see. Let me see those notes there. I believe I
have it in them. Refresh my----
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is a statement that you made on December 4?
Mr. McMILLON. That is the second.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don’t you look at your statement of the 24th?
Mr. McMILLON. We are still missing that fourth report. I believe it was
covered in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, that is a later report, but on the date of the
24th, when these things were fresh in your mind at 3:30, you didn’t
mention anything in your report, did you, about how Ruby got down the
ramp?
Mr. McMILLON. Just a second. No, sir; I didn’t mention it then.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why was that?
Mr. McMILLON. Well, I couldn’t possibly have mentioned everything that
I knew about the deal here. I just didn’t mention it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you knew that was important, didn’t you?
Mr. McMILLON. No, sir; I didn’t think anything about it being important
at all at the time. I gave that information, I believe--this report was
written on Sunday--I gave it to them on Saturday, I believe, during the
departmental investigation.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the meantime, had you talked with Dean?
Mr. McMILLON. With Dean?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t recall if I had or not. I don’t remember whether
I had seen him or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the meantime, had you talked with Archer or Clardy?
Mr. McMILLON. Oh, yes; sure had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There came a time, didn’t there, when Dean was under a lot
of pressure from the people in the police department?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know anything about that. Probably no more than
the rest of us. I don’t know. I think that Dean got misquoted or
something in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the department conducted--directed particular
attention to that in part of their investigation, didn’t they?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t know that that was what the investigation was
over or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn’t you know somewhere along the line that Dean might
possibly be in trouble?
Mr. McMILLON. No, sir; this article in the paper, I had heard all
different kinds of rumors. I had heard that the officer, who was
supposed to be the one that saw him milling around outside, was an
ex-police officer, the article in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There was an article in the paper that particularly quoted
Dean?
Mr. McMILLON. I haven’t seen the article. I understand that there was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right. Now, were you present when Agent Hall
questioned Ruby?
Mr. McMILLON. Part of the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you there when Agent Hall questioned Ruby about how
he got down the Main Street ramp?
Mr. McMILLON. I may or may not have been. I don’t know. It seemed to
me like most of his conversation I recall Hall asking him there, I am
sure I already knew or had been told, but it seemed to me like Hall
was running a background information, background check. His questioning
seemed to be along that line.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall Hall asking Ruby how he got down the ramp?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or how Ruby got in the basement?
Mr. McMILLON. I don’t recall Hall asking him that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me say this. If you had heard this and Ruby gave
information to Hall that you say was different from what you say you
heard Dean get out of Ruby, you would have brought that to Hall’s
attention, wouldn’t you?
Mr. McMILLON. I probably would have, had I heard it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you had heard him say something different, you would
have brought it to his attention?
Mr. McMILLON. I am sure that I would.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In fact, any police officer would have done that, don’t
you think so?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes; I think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, isn’t it true that, as late as--well, strike
this--did you sign the typed copy, the original typed copy of Exhibit
5018?
Mr. McMILLON. Did I sign it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you saw that original typed copy after it had been
typed?
Mr. McMILLON. Yes, sir.