Mr. LEAVELLE. In from 2 or 3 days afterward.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you complete the identification of this document by
placing your signature directly below mine on the first page and your
initials below mine on the second page? Did you state that fact to the
FBI, sir?
Mr. LEAVELLE. I don’t recall whether I did or not.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t believe it is in either of the other two documents
of the FBI that I have here, 5088, or 5089. Is there any reason why you
didn’t?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Well, to the best of my knowledge it seems as though
I might have made that suggestion, made the reference to that, but
whether whoever was taking it said that they didn’t need it in their
report. I’m sure that’s--now, of course, I can’t swear to this, but
I think that is correct because I know I--I am not able to recall at
this time exactly what the conversation was between myself and the
agent--I--in this, in its entirety, I do know there was one or two
things that I told them about, which they did say that they didn’t
think was necessary for their report, so, they did not put it in there.
Now, whether that was one of them or not, I do not recall.
Mr. HUBERT. On the occasion that you think that you might have stated
that to the FBI agent, was there one agent interviewing you, or two?
Mr. LEAVELLE. I believe at one time the two were interviewing me.
Mr. HUBERT. How many interviews have you had with the FBI?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Twice. Mr. Bookhout was out, and then Mr. Bookhout
interviewed me on the morning after the shooting, I believe. Is that
correct?
Mr. HUBERT. Dated November 24.
Mr. LEAVELLE. Twenty-fourth.
Mr. HUBERT. That would be the day of the shooting?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes, that is what I mean, and then the other one was
sometime after or with the two agents?
Mr. HUBERT. And you think it was during the interrogation by the two
agents on December 10, 1963, that you mentioned about your suggestion
that the route should be through the first floor of the Main Street
entrance of the municipal building coming out the Main Street door?
Mr. LEAVELLE. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. But, that those agents told you that that was not important?
Mr. LEAVELLE. They didn’t need it for that particular form.
Mr. HUBERT. I see.
Mr. LEAVELLE. To the best of my knowledge, of course, my reason for
double-crossing--my reasons for wanting to handle it the other way,
I thought it would be done quicker and easier and I was fed up to my
chin, in a way, with these news people, and they--as soon as we could
get rid of them the better, was my sentiments, and I didn’t have any
desire to parade through them with the prisoner in tow. However, I can
understand why the chief wanted to let them take the pictures.
Mr. HUBERT. Had it been your decision you wouldn’t have done it that
way, is that it?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Either as I suggested, or at a different hour.
Mr. HUBERT. Say move him in the morning early?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes, I brought Ruby down in safety and I don’t think
there was any--as long as it was successful, I don’t think you can
argue with success.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you transfer Ruby?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes, I did.
Mr. HUBERT. It was done at an unannounced hour?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Well, sir; it was so unannounced that the chief didn’t
know about it and neither did Sheriff Decker. I don’t know whether they
will admit that or not, but no one knew it but Captain Fritz and myself
and three or four officers directly involved.
Mr. HUBERT. You all just decided to do it, and that was it?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Well, the captain called me and asked me about it and
told me what he was thinking about doing and he wanted to know if I
thought it would work and I said, “Yes, I think it will the way it has
been set up,” and he said, “I haven’t asked the chief about it,” and I
said, “All you can do is get a bawling out, but a bawling out is better
than losing a prisoner.”
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get bawled out about it?
Mr. LEAVELLE. I didn’t. I did not know whether he did or not. I
doubt it. Because I am sure the chief was relieved to be rid of the
responsibility.
Mr. HUBERT. How was Ruby removed, then, just for the record?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Well, this would be on Monday morning, I guess, the
next Monday morning around 11, around the same hour that Oswald was
transferred. The captain had not showed up and I--he called on the
telephone and asked for me and his secretary called me to the phone,
and I was in the squad room where several officers were, and asked
me if I was in a position where I could talk, and I said, “No, not
really,” and he said, “Well--” told me to go into his office and
take the phone in there, which I did, and he said, “I am down at the
Greyhound Bus Station, and I have Officers Graves and Montgomery with
me.”
He had run into them on the street. Said, “We have cased the jail and
it looks clear. I am going to make a suggestion to you, and if you
don’t think it will work I want you to tell me.”
Said--he said, “We’ll pull through the basement of the city hall,”
said, “You go get Ruby out of the jail anyway you want to, on a “tempo”
or whatever you think best, and bring him down to me, down in the
elevator and we’ll pull through the basement at some given time, and
we’ll load him up and whisk him right on down and let another squad
follow us and we will take him right on down to the county jail.”
Said, “The sheriff--I haven’t called Decker or the chief about it,
either.” Said, “Do you think it will work?”
I said, “Yes.” Said, “How many men--got enough there to help you with
him?”