Mr. HATTON. No; except that----

Mr. POWELL. Except extreme cold?

Mr. HATTON. Yes. We have to use more air in the cold weather than we

do in the warm weather, in order to get the same quality of effluent,

approximately this winter 12 per cent more air.

Mr. POWELL. It means practically 12 per cent additional cost?

Mr. HATTON. Of the air alone; but this cost I have quoted is the

actual cost of summer and winter conditions.

Mr. FENKELL. May I ask a question? To what extent would it be

necessary to allow untreated water to escape because of rainstorm?

Mr. HATTON. We are anticipating at the present time, or will

anticipate in this plant, 150 gallons of rain water per capita; that

is all the rain water that will be carried to the plant, and that

rain water will be treated the same as the dry-weather flow. The

balance of the rain water will go into the river.

Mr. POWELL. That is per diem?

Mr. HATTON. Per capita; 150 gallons per capita per day.

Mr. DOW. May I ask the witness whether I am correct in my summing up

of the advantage of his method over the Imhoff tank method, in that

it tends to reduce the net cost by producing a readily marketable

fertilizer; that is the essential advantage. Am I correct in so

understanding?

Mr. HATTON. Not altogether, sir. As far as your statement goes, it is

correct, but to get a removal of 95 per cent of bacteria from the raw

sewage, it costs considerably more to do it by the Imhoff tank and

sterilization than it does by this process. I just quoted the figures.

Mr. DOW. Then initially, the advantage is that, with equal operating

costs a higher removal of bacteria is possible by this process?

Mr. HATTON. Yes.

Mr. DOW. And in addition thereto, there is a certain commercial

advantage, in that the product is readily marketable?

Mr. HATTON. Yes.

Mr. DOW. Much more readily marketed than the Imhoff product?

Mr. HATTON. Yes; that is true.

Mr. DOW. As regards the latter phase of the situation, am I correct

also in my supposition that the present prices for fertilizers are

abnormal, having regard to the prices prior to the war, say 1914?

Mr. HATTON. No; the price of two and a half per unit is the price

that existed prior to the war; the price of ammoniacal nitrogen

to-day is considerably higher than that.

Mr. DOW. The figures given are based upon what might be considered

normal markets, and not upon the present very abnormal prices?

Mr. HATTON. Yes; for instance, phosphoric acid is worth to-day 10

times as much as the quotations I have used in making my valuations.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you any questions, Prof. Phelps?

Prof. PHELPS. No.

Mr. DALLYN. Just one point that Mr. Mignault brought out. Comparing

the results of your process with the Imhoff tank, Mr. Mignault rather

concluded that the Imhoff tank could be used in the same location

as your plant. Is it not true that the effluents from the two types

of treatment compare as the two samples on the table, activated

sludge effluent being clear, and that from the Imhoff tank turbid and

discolored, similar to raw sewage?

Mr. HATTON. That is true. I answered that with the idea of nuisance

to the adjacent neighbor.

Mr. DALLYN. What is your actual saving, as you actually contemplate

placing interceptors, collecting the sewage, in the adoption of your

method?

Mr. HATTON. We are saving about $2,000,000 in carrying out the

subaqueous tunnel a mile and a half out to sea, as the original board

of engineers suggested.

Mr. POWELL. I understood you to give that as the esthetic feature?

Mr. HATTON. Yes; not only esthetic feature, but the purification

feature; in other words, the local engineer has indicated that he

would not permit, with his sanction, any sewage disposal plant which

would deposit that much suspended matter in the harbor.

Mr. MIGNAULT. The question I put to you was to ascertain, in case

they decided to establish other treatment plants in order to avoid

constructing sewers, whether your system had any advantage over the

Imhoff-tank system?

Mr. HATTON. As I answered your question before, I was looking upon

it with a view to nuisance to the neighborhood. As to nuisance

which might arise from the discoloration of the water, I should

say the Imhoff tank would be far more deleterious in that respect

than our process; but as to nuisances arising in the waters due to

decomposition, assuming that the sterilization of the Imhoff tank

liquor is complete, then the two plants would be practically equal,

as to nuisances arising outside of the discoloration of the water.

Prof. PHELPS. In regard to the matter which Mr. Mignault has

brought out, I think it should be stated that, as far as the city

of Detroit is concerned, and also as far as Buffalo is concerned,

the question of interceptors, or of local plant, was not determined

by the character of the treatment, but was determined solely by the

physical conditions--that is, it was impossible for us to locate the

local plants and thus save the interceptors, by reason of the levels

of the sewers and the inaccessibility of available land. We did

consider local treatment, and if it had been feasible it would have

represented considerable saving. The determination is not conditioned

by the character of the treatment.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you anything further to say?

Mr. HATTON. No.

Mr. TAWNEY. On behalf of the commission, I desire to extend to

you our sincere thanks for your appearing before us, coming from

Milwaukee for that purpose, and giving us the very interesting and

clear statement you have concerning the operation of your plant in

Milwaukee and the process of it.

Mr. POWELL. We can all assent to that.

Mr. GARDNER. Without any question.

Mr. MIGNAULT. You refer to the published report of the city of

Milwaukee. Is that available?

Mr. HATTON. I would be glad to give it to the commission. I am sorry

to say it is the last one.

Mr. TAWNEY. That is the only one you have?

Mr. HATTON. Except our own office copy.

Mr. MIGNAULT. And the process is described?

Mr. HATTON. Quite well; and the results.

Mr. MAGRATH. I suppose it is impossible to get copies of this any

place?

Mr. HATTON. Well, there are some of them in public laboratories

throughout the country and among engineers; but we had a pretty

lively demand for them and we only had 500 copies issued, and they

are all gone. That is a copy I picked up on my desk yesterday.

Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I have a brief statement here regarding lake

currents which would elucidate what Mr. Hatton was not quite familiar

with.

Mr. Goddard, assistant engineer at Grand Rapids of the United States

engineer office, read a paper before the Engineers’ Club, of Grand

Rapids in April, 1916, which included his own experience, as well as

a compilation of the results of the studies of others and covering a

number of years. His conclusions were that the currents in the Lakes

are produced primarily by the winds and secondarily by variation in

barometric pressure.

Wind currents follow the direction of the wind.

Pressure currents flow from high to low pressure areas.

The flow through the Straits of Mackinac in either way, according as

the above conditions prevail.

STATEMENT OF MR. THEODORE A. LEISEN, GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT

OF THE WATERWORKS OF THE CITY OF DETROIT.

Mr. TAWNEY. Mr. Leisen, you are the president of the Great Lakes Pure

Water Association, are you not?

Mr. LEISEN. No, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. Are you connected with that association?

Mr. LEISEN. I have a letter from the secretary asking me to represent

the association at this meeting.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you examined this report of the consulting engineer

of the commission?

Mr. LEISEN. I regret to say that I did not see that report until

yesterday at noon, and I think you can realize that I have not.

While I had endeavored to read over a part of it I have not been

able to digest it.

Mr. TAWNEY. What are the functions of your organization?

Mr. LEISEN. The functions are largely the questions from the sanitary

point of view of preserving the purity of the waters of the Great

Lakes.

Mr. TAWNEY. It is a voluntary organization?

Mr. LEISEN. It is a voluntary organization without any official

standing. It is simply an auxiliary to the health departments in an

unofficial way, I should say.

Mr. TAWNEY. Where are the headquarters located?

Mr. LEISEN. Practically they have no headquarters.

Mr. POWELL. Who are the officers?

Mr. LEISEN. Mr. Paul Hansom, of the Illinois State Board of Health,

is the secretary; and Dr. Charles J. Hastings is president.

Mr. POWELL. Has your organization followed the work of the

International Joint Commission in this investigation?

Mr. LEISEN. My familiarity with the organization is almost nil. As

I say, I had a conversation with Mr. Hansom in New York relative to

the matter a few weeks ago, and he asked me if I was still a member

of the association. As a matter of fact, that did not come to a

definite point until I got his letter asking me to represent them

here. Officially, I am not in a position to say very much about the

association or what they have done. It is a newly organized body.

Mr. POWELL. When was it organized?

Mr. LEISEN. Some time during the past years.

Mr. POWELL. What are its purposes?

Mr. LEISEN. I think the preservation of the purity of the waters of

the Great Lakes.

Mr. TAWNEY. And also the connecting rivers, I suppose?

Mr. LEISEN. Well, yes.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you any statement which you desire to make to the

commission in respect to the pollution of these waters?

Mr. LEISEN. As you understand, I am the general superintendent for

the board of water commissioners here in Detroit, and as such have

charge of the water supply. So, naturally, my interest from that

point of view would be toward----

Mr. TAWNEY. You appeared before the commission two years ago, when we

were here, did you not?

Mr. LEISEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. And at that time you gave us full and detailed

information concerning the water purification?

Mr. LEISEN. I believe the points were generally covered then.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you the same process now that you had at that time?

Mr. LEISEN. With this difference: At that, time we were treating the

water with hypochloride of lime as a disinfectant. We have since

changed to liquid chlorine treatment.

Mr. TAWNEY. What has been the result?

Mr. LEISEN. There has been no radical difference in the result. The

results obtained from the use of hypochloride of lime have been

almost identical with those obtained from the use of liquid chlorine;

possibly some elimination of the taste in the water. I do not

believe the complaints of taste of chlorine have been of any moment

at all since the liquid-chlorine process was adopted. To that extent

I consider it an improvement and it is a little more cleanly. It is a

nicer process, more methodical, and more mechanical in its methods.

Mr. TAWNEY. You have only one intake?

Mr. LEISEN. Yes.

Mr. TAWNEY. What is its capacity?

Mr. LEISEN. It is 10 feet in diameter and a little over 300 feet

long. Its capacity, of course, would vary with the head permissible

on the shore end.

Mr. TAWNEY. How many gallons are you consuming per day?

Mr. LEISEN. We are consuming at the present time about 130,000,000 to

160,000,000 gallons per day.

Mr. TAWNEY. That is, a day of 24 hours?

Mr. LEISEN. Yes. Our highest hourly capacity for any one period was

at the rate of about 190,000,000 gallons per day of 24 hours.

Mr. TAWNEY. The hour consumption was at that rate?

Mr. LEISEN. That was the peak load, yes; for one hour during the past

year.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you studied this problem in connection with the

matter of sewage disposal at all, or do you deal entirely with the

water end of it?

Mr. LEISEN. I have no official connection with the sewage disposal

proposition; but my interests are simply those of an engineer in the

problem, and as a citizen.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you had any cases of typhoid fever in the city of

Detroit in the last year or two?

Mr. LEISEN. Yes; there have been cases, not abnormal. The

typhoid-fever death rate has been reasonably constant for the last

few years and comparatively low.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you gentlemen any questions to ask? If not, that is

all, Mr. Leisen. Are there any other gentlemen here representing the

city of Detroit who wish to be heard on this subject? I see that the

mayor of the city has just come in, in time to witness the closing of

these hearings. He may have something to say. If he has we shall be

glad to hear from him.

Mr. MARX. I do not know really what you have done this morning.

Mr. TAWNEY. Well, gentlemen, it seems that this closes the hearing.

In concluding the hearing I have been requested, on behalf of the

commission, to extend to the mayor of the city of Detroit and the

council of the city our sincere thanks for the courtesy which has

been extended to us in giving us the use of this council chamber. I

can assure the mayor and the council that the commission sincerely

appreciates, not only the courtesy that has been extended to us,

but also the hearty cooperation which we have received from the

officials of the city since the beginning of the investigation, and

we sincerely hope that when our final recommendations are made to the

two Governments they will receive the approval and support of the

city of Detroit and of the neighboring cities as well. Thanking you

gentlemen for your appearance and courtesy, I will state that the

hearings are now closed.

Mr. MARX. I want to assure you of our continued cooperation.

(Thereupon, at 12.30 o’clock p. m., the hearings were closed.)

INTERNATIONAL JOINT COMMISSION,

_Ogdensburg, N. Y., Friday, August 25, 1916._

The commission met at 10 o’clock a. m.

Mr. Gardner presided.

Mr. GARDNER. Gentlemen, you will kindly come to order. In August,

1912, the Governments of Canada and the United States jointly

referred to the International Joint Commission for investigation and

report, under the terms of Article IX of the treaty of January 11,

1909, certain questions relating to the pollution of boundary waters.

Briefly stated, these questions are: What are the extent, causes, and

localities of such pollution? How may such pollution best be remedied?

It is safe to say that of all the questions with which the commission

has had to deal this is by far the most important. Nothing can be

more vital than the conservation of health, and that is precisely the

object of this investigation. The population directly tributary to

the boundary waters between Canada and the United States amounts to

over 7,000,000, and it is estimated that over 15,000,000 are carried

annually in steamboats on these waters. The pollution of boundary

waters is a direct menace to every one of these millions of citizens

of the two countries. Its prevention will be of incalculable benefit.

In investigating the first question the commission was fortunate

enough to secure the services of Dr. Allan J. McLaughlin, of the

United States Public Health Service, and now commissioner of health

of Massachusetts. Associated with him were Dr. J. W. S. McCullough,

Prof. John A. Amyot, and Mr. F. A. Dallyn, of the Provincial

Board of Health of Ontario. Under the direction of these officers

bacteriological surveys were carried out throughout the boundary

waters, from the St. John River in the east to the Lake of the Woods

in the west. They also had the cordial cooperation of the Public

Health Services of both the Federal Governments and of the States and

Provinces on these boundary waters. The results of this investigation

were embodied in a progress report submitted to the two Governments

in 1914, to which was appended a very complete report by the sanitary

experts of the commission, outlining the extent of pollution in the

different localities and the causes to which it was attributed.

Having disposed of the first question, the commission took up the

second, as to remedies. As a first step, a conference was arranged

in New York with six eminent sanitary engineers, George W. Fuller,

Earle B. Phelps, and George C. Whipple, of the United States, and

F. A. Dallyn, W. S. Lea, and Theo. J. Lafrenière, of Canada, whose

testimony furnishes an invaluable record on the engineering side

of the question. As a result of this conference certain broad

fundamental principles were established, upon which any remedial

action must be based. The services of Prof. Phelps were secured

as consulting sanitary engineer to the commission, and under his

direction a series of careful studies were made, with particular

reference to the interception and treatment of riparian sewage on

the Detroit and Niagara Rivers, the chief areas of pollution. Public

hearings were held in the cities and towns along these waters in

1914, and again in the present year, to afford every opportunity to

the municipal and other authorities interested to put their views

before the commission.

In March, 1916, the consulting sanitary engineer submitted to the

commission his report upon remedial measures. Before closing the

hearings the commission deemed it desirable to give those interested

in health matters on the St. Lawrence an opportunity to come forward

and present their views. With that object in view it was decided to

hold a meeting in Ogdensburg to-day. Afterwards the commission will

proceed to prepare for submission to the two Governments its final

report, both as to the extent and causes of pollution and as to the

remedies best designed to safeguard the health of the Canadian and

American communities along the boundary.

Not only are we here to confer with those interested in health

matters, to find remedies for the removal of the causes of pollution,

but to ascertain to what extent and by what methods, system, or lack

of system are the boundary waters in this community being polluted

in contravention of the terms of the treaty made between the British

Empire and the United States, which provides that “These waters

shall not be polluted on either side of the line to the injury of

health or property on the other,” and also to serve notice that the

time is drawing near when no raw sewage will be allowed to flow

into these waters, and all communities in the near future will be

required to treat their sewage by some process of purification

before being allowed to use the waters of the boundary as an avenue

for its discharge. The commission therefore desires to hear from

representatives of the cities and towns bordering on the St. Lawrence

River as to what is being done at this time and what plans, if any,

are being considered for the future to remove the causes of pollution

in these boundary waters.

By direction of the chairman, Secretary Burpee then read the

notice of the meeting to be held at Ogdensburg, which was sent to

interested municipalities and officials in the United States and

Canada, together with copies of the report of the consulting sanitary

engineer of the commission, and also the list of the municipalities

to whom the notice and report were sent.

The notice and list are as follows:

Hearings of the International Joint Commission in re remedies for the pollution of boundary waters between the United States and Canada · 第 43 / 54 题