Mr. CLARDY. That it would have been closer to 11 than it was to 10.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. CLARDY. I am definitely sure in my own mind that it was sometime
after 10:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything that causes you to fix that precisely?
Mr. CLARDY. After just thinking, and all the other officers up in the
bureau sure that it was closer to 11 than it was to 10, I don't know
whether I looked at my watch or whether--on a previous deal, or where I
got the 10 o'clock in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, it is apparent then that you did have 10 o'clock in
your mind until when speaking to others you became convinced that you
must be wrong and the 11 o'clock is closer to it, is that correct?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir; I am sure it was that. I wasn't any--wasn't in
the basement more than 30 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anyone speak to you and ask you to correct your
statement from 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You are doing that on your own volition?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. It is because you have become convinced that you are wrong?
Mr. CLARDY. I was wrong on the time, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You were wrong?
Mr. CLARDY. That 10 o'clock is definitely wrong on time.
Mr. HUBERT. And you are, right now telling us that you are quite
certain that it was?
Mr. CLARDY. That it was closer to 11 o'clock than it was to 10.
Mr. HUBERT. That it was closer to 11 than 10. And that the previous
statement about 10 o'clock is simply wrong?
Mr. CLARDY. Simply wrong; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. No one has asked you to change?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir. That wrong time was my fault, and nobody else's.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anyone speak to you about the wrong time?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Haven't done so to this time?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that you were off duty on November 22?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And that you did not participate in reference to the
investigation concerning the President's death on November 23?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Jack Ruby?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long had you known him, and in what way?
Mr. CLARDY. I had known him approximately in the neighborhood of 8 or 9
years.
Mr. HUBERT. In what way? How did you come in contact with him?
Mr. CLARDY. To the best of my recollection I met him when I went into
his place of business that he owned on South Ervay in connection with
work, when I was working as a patrolman. I say I met him. I didn't
meet him at that time. I knew him, knew who he was. I--first time I
was ever introduced to him, shook hands with him, was at--after I went
into criminal investigation. Possibly in the early part of 1956. I was
looking for someone in connection with an auto theft in the vicinity
of one of the places that he owned and he had an interest in the Vegas
Club. I'm not sure who I was with, or who introduced----
Mr. HUBERT. Could you speak a little louder, please?
Mr. CLARDY. I am not sure who I was with, or who introduced me to him
at that time. Then approximately--maybe 6 or 8 months before this
come up he stopped me downtown one day and started telling me about a
traffic ticket he got. Other than that, I had seen him at a distance
and had spoke to him. I had seen him quite frequently when I was
working late nights where the B and B Club is, that is on Oak Lawn,
close to Lemmon. There is one place of business between the Vegas Club
and the B and B, and we would go in there quite frequently when we were
working late nights, and I have seen him in there on several occasions.
Mr. HUBERT. Was your acquaintance with him such that you would
recognize him immediately upon seeing him?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you recognize him in that way, whether he had a hat
on, or a hat off?
Mr. CLARDY. I know the man well enough if I caught a glimpse of him I
should recognize him; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Now, I am going to mark a chart of the basement
area of the Dallas Police Department, as follows, to wit: "Dallas,
Texas, March 24, 1964, Exhibit 5064. Deposition of B. S. Clardy,"
under which I am signing my name. For the purposes of identification,
however, before I move to that, I want to ask you concerning documents
5061, 5062, and 5063, previously identified, which I now hand you again.
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Ask you if there are any other corrections you wish to
make----
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. With reference to the documents?
Mr. CLARDY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Does the information contained in those documents represent
the truth, so far as you know?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Any modifications or changes or deletions that you would
like to make?
Mr. CLARDY. I don't believe there is, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Anything omitted, that you know of?
Mr. CLARDY. Sir, the only thing that is not in there that I know
anything about is possibly some of these people that come in and talk
to him after we took him upstairs, which nobody that made any of these
investigations asked me about.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. I will get to that later, but with the exception
of these omissions that you just mentioned, and to which I will come
back at a later time, these documents represent the truth? There is no
deletion and nothing more to add other than that other matter we have
been talking about?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I'll ask you to put your name under my signature where it
appears, and your initials under my initials where they appear on each
of the documents. Right there.
Mr. CLARDY. Right under here?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes. Just--now, we'll be using this chart later on, which
has been marked 5064, and I have signed it, and I will ask you, for the
purposes of identification, to put your signature under mine on that
one, too. Now, these documents have been corrected, I understand, that
it was simply closer to 10 o'clock than to 11 that you received----
Mr. CLARDY. Closer to 11 than 10.
Mr. HUBERT. I beg your pardon. Closer to 11 than to 10 when you
received certain instructions from Lieutenant Smart, is that correct?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were these instructions the first connection that you had
with the movement of Oswald?
Mr. CLARDY. We had been told earlier that morning, approximately--come
on duty at 7 o'clock, and was--and was told to stay in the office. Now,
that----
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, your normal tour began at 7, but you were
told to stay in the office?
Mr. CLARDY. Was told to stay in the office, that we would have to move
the prisoner.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you that?
Mr. CLARDY. Lieutenant Smart.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you anything about how the prisoner was going
to be moved, or at what time?
Mr. CLARDY. I was under the impression that he didn't know what time or
how, hisself, at the time.
Mr. HUBERT. What caused you to form that impression?
Mr. CLARDY. I think we went to get a cup of coffee, and I asked him,
and he said, "I don't know."
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the impression that he didn't know what the
plans were, actually came from the statement that he himself actually
told you to the effect that he didn't know?
Mr. CLARDY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, then what happened after?
Mr. CLARDY. Sometime shortly before 11, they told us to report to the
basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Smart did?
Mr. CLARDY. Lieutenant Smart.
Mr. HUBERT. Lieutenant Smart.
Mr. CLARDY. Lieutenant Smart, myself, and Detective McMillon, Detective
Archer and Detective Watson, and Detective Dawson out of our bureau.
Mr. HUBERT. You moved as a group?
Mr. CLARDY. Uh-huh, all down on the same elevator, and there was some
other detectives from the juvenile bureau, I am sure, was on the same
elevator. Detective Lowery, Detective "Blackie" Harrison, and possibly
some others. Those, I'm sure.
Mr. HUBERT. What instructions were given to you?