The testimony of Louis D. Miller was taken at 9 a.m., on March 25,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I might state for the record and for your information, Mr.
Ward, Mr. Miller, and I talked on the record a short while yesterday
afternoon, and I don't believe that, when I was talking with him, that
his name was entered into the record, so I think what you will have
to do is get in touch with the court reporter--is it Iris Lennon or
Leonard?--and find out from her just where that is so that these two
different sections can appear together.
Before I ask you to be sworn, Mr. Miller, I want to ask you if there
are any questions that I can--that you have of me, I can tell you
anything further about the nature of the investigation that is going on
here?
Mr. MILLER. No; and had you explained to me yesterday what kind of
information you were taking, what it would be used for, anything at all
about it before you started to swear me in, I believe we would have got
a lot further yesterday than we did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you want to raise your right hand and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. MILLER. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you state your name, please?
Mr. MILLER. Louis D. Miller.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how do you spell that?
Mr. MILLER. [Spelling] L-o-u-i-s.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live, Mr. Miller?
Mr. MILLER. 1231 Ravina Drive, Garland, Tex.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When were you born?
Mr. MILLER. September 4, 1930.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you employed?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where are you employed?
Mr. MILLER. City of Dallas Police Department.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how long have you been with the Dallas Police
Department?
Mr. MILLER. Since August 1955.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what is your rank in the department?
Mr. MILLER. Detective.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you assigned to any particular bureau?
Mr. MILLER. Juvenile bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been in the juvenile bureau?
Mr. MILLER. Since October of last year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where were you before that?
Mr. MILLER. Radio patrol division.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Whose platoon did you work on?
Mr. MILLER. The last platoon that I worked on was Captain Souter's.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I understand that you were off duty on Friday,
November 22, is that right, of last year?
Mr. MILLER. The best that I remember, yes, I was off the day the
President was shot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how about the next day, Saturday, November the 23d,
were you on duty or off duty that day?
Mr. MILLER. On Saturday, I should have worked. I don't remember
specifically any particular incident that happened that day that would
bring to my mind that I did work.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, is there any reason for you to think that you didn't
work that day?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any records of any sort back at the police
department or notes that you have maintained which would indicate
whether or not you worked?
Mr. MILLER. There should be some, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of records would those be?
Mr. MILLER. Offenses that was assigned to me, prisoners handled.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wonder if you could, when you return to the police
department, if you could check to see if those records are available
and provide copies of them to us, or if you can't make the copies, why
if you will provide us with the originals, why we will make the copy
and return the originals to you. Would you be willing to do that?
Mr. MILLER. If I could. I would have to look through things that I have
in my locker, a place there, and see if I have any there that were
assigned to me on that date, otherwise it would be next to impossible,
and see what prisoners I did handle.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you supposed to make a report at the end of the day as
to your activities?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I don't want you--I am not asking you to go through
that and see what prisoners you handled if you can't find it readily,
but it would be easy to find some record of whether you were on duty at
all, wouldn't it?
Mr. MILLER. It would be marked in the duty book.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. If you would, check that and let us know, and
if you do have any notes that pertain to those days, I would appreciate
that, also. All right. Now, do you have any recollection of when you
first heard in any way that Lee Harvey Oswald might be moved to the
Dallas County Jail?
Mr. MILLER. No; I don't remember when I heard it or how I heard it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall coming to work Sunday morning on the 24th?
Mr. MILLER. I remember being at work. As to the time that I came to
work, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what time you usually report to work?
Mr. MILLER. I usually get in the office sometime between 7 and 7:30 and
some days earlier than that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any reason to think you arrived any later than
7:30----
Mr. MILLER. No; I don't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On Sunday?
Mr. MILLER. I couldn't be definite on it because I don't remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you ride to work when you come, take public
transportation, or do you drive?
Mr. MILLER. I drive.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you drive in alone or with somebody else?
Mr. MILLER. I drive in alone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Alone?
Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, on Sunday, do you recall whether you drove in alone
or with somebody else?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall driving in at all that day, as far as that
goes, but I am sure that I did, and I am sure I drove alone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you did in the early morning when you
got to work on that Sunday?
Mr. MILLER. Nothing definite, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, did you report up to the third floor to the juvenile
bureau?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you did when you got to the juvenile
bureau?
Mr. MILLER. No, sir; nothing definite.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it that you have some indefinite ideas of what
happened up there?
Mr. MILLER. Well, I can tell you what I usually do when I come up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, was this a usual day?
Mr. MILLER. As far as I was concerned, in my business, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember the people who were on duty up there on
Sunday morning?
Mr. MILLER. Let's see. Detective Goolsby, Detective Cutchshaw,
[spelling] C-u-t--I believe he spells his name [spelling]
C-u-t-c-h-a-w. I am not sure about that spelling. Detective Lowery.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anybody else?
Mr. MILLER. Cutchshaw, Lowery, Officer J. W. Harrison.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that "Blackie" Harrison?
Mr. MILLER. Yes; and Policewoman McLine [spelling] M-c-L-i-n-e.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is Policewoman McLine attached to the juvenile bureau?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The people that you have listed, is that the full staff of
people who are on duty regularly at that time or are there other people
also ordinarily who would be on duty?
Mr. MILLER. No; who is on duty would depend on the days off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were any other people, whose
names you might not recall, who were also on duty in the juvenile
bureau that day?
Mr. MILLER. Captain Martin that day, the best that I remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Did you see him up in the juvenile bureau?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anybody else that you can think of?
Mr. MILLER. No; that I can think of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you got up to the juvenile bureau that morning,
did you talk to any of these people?
Mr. MILLER. I am sure I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you talk to up there?
Mr. MILLER. I probably talked to everybody that was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. When you arrived, were there television cameras
on the third floor hallway?
Mr. MILLER. The best that I remember, there were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether or not those TV cameras were manned?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember definitely whether they were or not, but I
don't believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Can you give us some sort of idea of how
crowded the hallways, that hallway was, when you arrived for work in
the morning?
Mr. MILLER. It wasn't crowded at all when I arrived at work.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, had you been there before when it was more crowded
than that?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Directing your attention to Saturday, can you give us a
description of what the status of that hallway was on Saturday?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember any definite time or whether it was
Saturday, but I had been in the hallway when it was almost impassable.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in the police department on Friday at all?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I understand at the time that you remember this hallway
being impassable was sometime before you arrived for work on Sunday?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That would have had to have been Saturday?
Mr. MILLER. It probably was on Saturday, but I don't remember. I
can't remember that it was definitely Saturday or any certain time on
Saturday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you think it would have been on Friday?
Mr. MILLER. No; it wasn't on Friday, because I didn't go near the
police station on Friday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, while you were in the homicide or in the juvenile
bureau on Sunday, did any newspaper people or radio or TV people come
into the juvenile bureau for any purpose?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember any specific ones coming in, but they were
in and out, so I am sure they did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what was their purpose in coming in and out?
Mr. MILLER. They usually come in to use the telephone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were you people able to conduct your activities in
the juvenile bureau with these newspaper people coming in and out?
Mr. MILLER. They didn't interfere with my business. As far as the other
people assigned to the bureau, I don't know whether they interfered
with them or not. I couldn't say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of business were you transacting in the morning,
Sunday morning?
Mr. MILLER. Just routine work is all I recall. If you would give me
something definite to go on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, were you investigating any particular cases?
Mr. MILLER. At what time?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to the time that you went down to the basement.
Mr. MILLER. Prior to that time, an officer had brought in two small
children, as I recall. I don't now remember what they were brought in
for, but I was working them, doing the paper work on them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How soon was that after you got up to the juvenile bureau?
Mr. MILLER. That was later on in the morning, the best I remember, and
I was working on the paperwork on them when I was told to report to the
basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to bringing in those two children, did you talk with
anybody in the juvenile bureau about the prospective move of Lee Harvey
Oswald to the Dallas County Jail?
Mr. MILLER. I could have. I don't recall it, though. In fact, I didn't
even know that--for sure that Oswald was still in our jail.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, you heard the newspaper reporters come in and
out of the office, didn't you?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember any specific incident of when they came in
and out. Like I said, they probably did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear them talk on the telephone?
Mr. MILLER. I didn't pay any attention to what they were saying.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you close enough to them to hear what they were
saying?
Mr. MILLER. I didn't try to hear them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you close enough to hear them if you had tried to
hear them?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall it if I was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Whereabouts in the juvenile bureau did you work that day?
Mr. MILLER. We have several desks up there, and it is possible that I
worked at all of them some time during the day. I don't remember any
particular desk or anything like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is the juvenile bureau, is it one large room or does
it have a series of rooms in it or what?
Mr. MILLER. It has several rooms, I would say. It has a reception
office affair in front, and the captain's office is off of that, and
then a short hallway, and the lieutenant's office, there is a holdover
room for children, and then the main office, and then off of the main
office we have two interrogation rooms.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you have a desk in any one of those offices
assigned to you?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the newspaper reporters, did they come into the main
office on Sunday?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall any specific incident where they came in,
but I feel sure that they did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you work at any time out in the front office or
the reception area?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall whether I did or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did there come a time when you were requested to go down
into the basement?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what is your best estimate of when that was?
Mr. MILLER. I wouldn't have any idea.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before you got this request, had you been down in the
basement that day?
Mr. MILLER. It is possible that I had, but I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you were asked to prepare a report of your activities
on the 24th, isn't that right, the police department?
Mr. MILLER. I was asked to write a letter and put in the information of
what position I was in down in the basement at the time Oswald was shot
and things of that nature, not everything that I did that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When were you requested to make this report?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember what day it was. I don't believe it was on
that Sunday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what you were told to do when you were
asked to make out the report?
Mr. MILLER. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who instructed you to make out the report?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall who that was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, was it just a general announcement that was made by
one of the chiefs or did somebody in particular approach you?
Mr. MILLER. It was probably someone in particular, but I don't recall
who it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you discuss this report with anybody before you made
it?
Mr. MILLER. It is possible that I did, but I don't recall it if I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was it on the 24th that asked you to go down into the
basement?
Mr. MILLER. The best I recall, it was kind of a general announcement.
Who came up and requested or ordered, or however you wanted to put it,
all of the men to go to the basement, I don't know who that was. As I
say, I was working the papers, typing. I had my----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you working at that time?
Mr. MILLER. I was working in the main office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who was in the main office with you at that time?
Mr. MILLER. Well, since we had been instructed early in the morning to
remain in the office until further notice, I would have to assume that
all of the people assigned up there for that day were present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember anybody who was there?
Mr. MILLER. The only one that I can recall specifically is Policewoman
McLine, because after this announcement, request, order, whatever it
was, was made for us to go to the basement, I asked her if she would
finish the paperwork on the two small children for me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if Officer Lowery was still there?
Mr. MILLER. No; I couldn't say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or Officer McMillon?
Mr. MILLER. Officer McMillon doesn't work out of our office, so I am
sure he wasn't there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Officer Harrison?
Mr. MILLER. Officer Harrison works out of our office, and he was
on duty that day, but as far as remembering it, anyone other than
Policewoman McLine in particular, I couldn't do it, because I don't
know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, what did you do--well, this person who came into
your--who requested that you go down, did that person actually walk
into the juvenile bureau office?
Mr. MILLER. I don't know, because I didn't see him and I didn't hear
him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, then, who told you? Who did you hear the request
from to go down?
Mr. MILLER. Policewoman McLine, I believe it was, the best I remember,
said something about all men have to go to the basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, at that point, did you walk down to the basement?
Mr. MILLER. I walked down the hall and caught the elevator to the
basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go down with anybody?
Mr. MILLER. The best I recall, the elevator was full. As far as
remembering any one particular person that was on the elevator, I
couldn't say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you walk out of the juvenile bureau with anybody?
Mr. MILLER. I am sure I did, but I don't recall any particular person
that I walked out with.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall how many people you walked out with?
Mr. MILLER. I sure don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When Officer McLine, Policewoman McLine, told you that you
were supposed to go to the basement, what did she say?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall her specific words.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she tell you why you were supposed to go down?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any idea of why you were to go down?
Mr. MILLER. No; I can't say that I actually did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you walked down to the basement, did you look into the
homicide bureau?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall looking in there; no, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you got down to the basement, where did you go?
Mr. MILLER. The best I recall, I was standing outside of the windows
there in the hallway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when you got off the elevator, what did you do?
Mr. MILLER. Walked over to this hallway where the windows and
telephones there are in the basement outside of the jail office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you meet anybody down there when you got off of the
elevators before you got to that window, did you meet anybody down
there?
Mr. MILLER. No particular person that I recall, although there were
several people there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you receive any instructions from anybody before you
went to this particular station that you mentioned?
Mr. MILLER. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you know to walk over there?
Mr. MILLER. I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why did you happen to walk there?
Mr. MILLER. There was no particular reason.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how long was this before Lee Harvey Oswald came down?
Mr. MILLER. I don't recall how long. It would be hard to estimate it.
It could have been 10 minutes or it could have been longer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I have got another witness out here, Mr. Ward, and I think
maybe it might be well to take a break here a second. I want to talk to
this man.
(Discussion off of the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Miller and I have been talking here for a few minutes
off of the record about some of the events prior to his going down into
the basement.
Now, as I understand it, Mr. Miller, shortly after you got into the
office on Sunday morning, you went some place for some coffee?
Mr. MILLER. I went to the Deluxe Diner on Commerce Street and had
breakfast.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, who did you go over there with?
Mr. MILLER. Officer Harrison.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what time of the morning was that?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember a definite time, but it was probably
somewhere shortly after 8 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did anybody else go over there with you besides
Harrison?
Mr. MILLER. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This a place that you regularly go?
Mr. MILLER. No; not regularly. Occasionally, we go over for a sandwich
or we phone for sandwiches and take them up to the office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you normally take a coffee break right after you go to
work?
Mr. MILLER. Usually after we get our assignments in the morning, we
take a coffee break and go to work.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you receive assignments this morning when you came in?
Mr. MILLER. I don't believe the deskman finished making assignments
when we went over to coffee.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this the regular deskman?
Mr. MILLER. Yes. Usually we have a regular deskman, except his day off,
and on his days off, everyone takes a turn rotating working at the desk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Excuse me. What was the name of the deskman that day?
Mr. MILLER. The best I remember, Detective Goolsby was on the desk that
day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, where was this located on Commerce Street, this diner?
Mr. MILLER. It is in the 2000 block, I believe it is, almost directly
across the street from the Statler Hotel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how many blocks would that be west of the police
department?
Mr. MILLER. That would be in the first block.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you went in there that morning, were you in uniform?
Mr. MILLER. No. I never wear a uniform.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know any of the people who worked at that diner?
Mr. MILLER. Only when I see them. Now, I know a colored boy's over
there first name. It is Jimmy, I believe, but I couldn't be definite on
that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he in there on that day?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember just exactly who it was on duty. There is
usually three or four working over there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, when you went in there, did they have
counters and--did they have a counter and tables and booths?
Mr. MILLER. It is just a counter.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how many people were working behind the counter that
day?
Mr. MILLER. It would be hard to say. Like I was telling you a while
ago, there was usually maybe two, maybe four. It all depends on the
amount of business they expect, I suppose.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go in there often enough so that you were familiar
with any of the people waiting behind that counter although you might
not have known them by name but you would recognize them and they would
recognize you?
Mr. MILLER. I don't think so. I doubt if I have been in there over a
half dozen times at the most.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Officer Harrison know any of the people in there?
Mr. MILLER. I believe he did; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I know you can't--I don't expect you to be a thousand
percent accurate on this, but do you have any idea which of the people
in there that he knew?
Mr. MILLER. No. I have been over there with Officer Harrison, and he
usually speaks to, like this one colored boy, and I believe his name
is Jimmy or Tommy or something like that. I couldn't be sure on that,
but usually speak to him. And when we call up for sandwiches, Officer
Harrison has called up there once or twice to have them make sandwiches
and pick them up, and he usually asks for this one particular boy over
there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who suggested going over there for coffee that morning?
Mr. MILLER. I don't remember whether I suggested it or whether Officer
Harrison did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, who suggested going out for coffee?
Mr. MILLER. Like I say, I don't remember whether I did or whether he
did. It would be hard to say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did either you or Officer Harrison ask anybody else in the
juvenile bureau to go out for coffee with you?
Mr. MILLER. We probably did, but I don't remember it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you got over there, how long did you stay at the
diner?
Mr. MILLER. Probably around 30 minutes at the most.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you--what did you and Officer Harrison talk about
over there?
Mr. MILLER. Now, I couldn't say. Couldn't say we talked about any one
thing in particular.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk about the investigation of Oswald?
Mr. MILLER. We could have or we could have talked about Officer
Harrison's rabbit dogs or fishing or numerous things.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk about the movement of Oswald to the county
jail?
Mr. MILLER. It is possible that we did, but as far as being definite on
it; I couldn't be.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you talk with anybody else over there?
Mr. MILLER. No one that I recall; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you--did either of you receive a telephone call over
there?
Mr. MILLER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who received the telephone call?
Mr. MILLER. The best I remember, when the person that works there at
the diner answered the phone, he said, "Phoned for one of you," Officer
Harrison answered it and came back to the counter and said we were
to come back to the office as soon as we finished eating and were to
remain there until further notice.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you who made the telephone call?
Mr. MILLER. No, sir; he never did, and I never did ask him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know whether it was somebody from the police
department that made that call?
Mr. MILLER. I presumed it was, but like I say, I never did ask Officer
Harrison who it was, and that would be the only ones that would be
likely to order us to return to the office and stay there until further
notice.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you got back to the office, did you have some
idea of why you were supposed to remain back there until further notice?
Mr. MILLER. No; I couldn't say that I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Officer Harrison talk to you at all that day about
Jack Ruby?