Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Maybe we can do this sort of like a football
diagram. Why don't you put your initials right there? And down here why
don't you draw a circle and an "X" and just say, "Initial placement of
Harrison"? Now, why don't you draw an arrow to the general direction of
where you were and put a "1" and draw a circle around that, and then
down in the corner, put a "1" and a circle and put, "Position when
O'Dell's car started to move," if that is correct? Now, when O'Dell's
car moved, were there police officers between you and Main Street?
Mr. HARRISON. There was--I believe there was a captain--I don't recall
who it was--I believe it was Captain Jones, though--talking to this
uniformed reserve captain.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Solomon?
Mr. HARRISON. No; Arnett.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Arnett?
Mr. HARRISON. In the Dallas reserves.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other police officers up in that general
direction?
Mr. HARRISON. There were officers out in this area right in here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are pointing to the area north of the entrance to the
jail?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, no; right along the side here. See, this was lined
with officers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The first place that you indicate to is the south wall of
the entranceway toward the jail office and up to the corner of the ramp
and then along the ramp, the east wall of the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. West wall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. West wall of the ramp toward Commerce Street?
Mr. HARRISON. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is where there were police officers?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay. And also that there were police officers along the
north wall of the entranceway leading toward the door of the jail
office, officers right in there?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, as O'Dell's car moved up the ramp, what
did you do?
Mr. HARRISON. I just moved these men back and--or asked them to move
back--and let him out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh. Now, did you watch his car go up the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see what Jones and Arnett did?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I didn't. Well, I know they moved back out of the way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there news people strung across the Main Street ramp
who had to be moved out of the way in order to let O'Dell's car move
through?
Mr. HARRISON. Not at that time, not on O'Dell's car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what then happened? Where did you then go after
O'Dell's car went up the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Back into my original area. It was about halfway between
the ramp and--the rail and the west wall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you looking around the area generally?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, if anybody had come down the Main Street ramp while
you were standing there up until the time that Pierce's car went out,
would you have seen him come down?
Mr. HARRISON. Would you repeat that, now?
Mr. GRIFFIN. If anybody had come down the Main Street ramp up to
the time, between the time that O'Dell's car left and the time that
Pierce's car went up, would you have seen the person who was coming
down there?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't think I would have. I was facing more or less
back in this particular----
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. At any time during those few minutes between
O'Dell's car leaving and Pierce's car leaving, did you look in the
direction of the Main Street ramp or over in the direction of the
garage area?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Now, if Jack Ruby had been in that area during that
period, would you have seen him?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know about that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, why do you say that?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know whether I would have seen him or not. It was
mass confusion, as far as people moving around in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But the confusion was over in the area at the entrance of
the garage, wasn't it?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And this area up the Main Street ramp was relatively clear?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you knew Jack Ruby well enough, certainly as well as
you know Mr. MacMaster, if you saw him just even briefly, you would
recognize him?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So if at any time you had looked over in that area and
Jack Ruby were there, you would have seen him, wouldn't you?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, it was very hard to see in this direction at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the direction of the garage?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why was that?
Mr. HARRISON. In this position. These floodlights were very bright.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. HARRISON. They had--I don't know how many they had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long were the floodlights on prior to the time that
Oswald came out?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they--try to think about this, now--were they on when
you first came into the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I don't believe they were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, they were taken--did you know whether or not, when
the armored car came down the Commerce Street ramp, the, TV cameras,
any of the TV cameras, were focused on that armored car?
Mr. HARRISON. I didn't notice that. He didn't get all of the way down
there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that Rio Pierce's car moved out, were the
floodlights on?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that O'Dell's car moved out, were the TV
cameras--were the floodlights on?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall whether they were on or off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you have any trouble seeing up in the direction
of the armored car?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And standing, from where you were, even in the center
of the entranceway toward the jail office, you could see up the ramp
toward the armored car and you could recognize the faces of people up
there, couldn't you?
Mr. HARRISON. Possibly, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there--other than the little difficulty we all
experience with vision, either through age or what-not, was there
anything unusually difficult about looking up in the direction and
seeing in the direction of the Commerce Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how far up the ramp was the armored car or how far
down the ramp, I should say?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I didn't go up there, but it appeared to be setting
just backed into the doorway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you say it was halfway down?
Mr. HARRISON. No; it wasn't halfway down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were there officers, police officers, standing up
there around the back of the armored car?
Mr. HARRISON. I remember seeing Lieutenant Butler up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And could you distinguish these police officers from the
position in the middle of the entranceway to the jail office where you
have marked your initial, where you have marked your initial position
on the ramp here, could you, looking up towards Commerce Street, could
you distinguish the faces of the police officers up there, could you
recognize who they were, toward the armored car?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I recognized Lieutenant Butler, but I don't recall
seeing--now, Chief Batchelor was around the truck. They went in and out
of the truck there inspecting it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you recall seeing him up there?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh. And you didn't have any difficulty seeing
Batchelor from your position on the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And presumably the same situation would prevail if you
looked up toward the Main Street ramp, isn't that right?
Mr. HARRISON. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you ever have occasion to look up toward the Main
Street ramp and see the police officer who was guarding the exit to the
ramp up there?
Mr. HARRISON. There was a uniformed officer up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, from where you were down here at what we have called
your initial position, on the time or times that you looked up toward
that uniformed officer up there, could you make out his face and
what-not?
Mr. HARRISON. I never did see his face. All I could see was a man in
uniform up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, we have learned subsequently, and you have, too, I am
sure, that that was Officer Vaughn that was up there?
Mr. HARRISON. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know Vaughn before?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to tell from where you were that it was
Vaughn up there?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I didn't know who it was up there. I could just see
his uniform and back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it because he didn't turn his face to you?
Mr. HARRISON. He was facing out when I looked up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You feel that, if he turned his face toward you, you would
have recognized who it was?
Mr. HARRISON. I would probably have recognized him; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you if the same thing is true, when you looked
up toward the Commerce Street entrance and the sidewalk, there were--do
you remember that there were officers guarding up there?
Mr. HARRISON. I couldn't see any officers out there. It was
considerably darker up on this end of the ramp due to the fact that the
armored truck had the light blocked off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. HARRISON. I mean the vision, it was pretty well--the whole ramp
area was pretty well taken up by that truck?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Let me make sure that I am clear on that. I don't
want to put words in your mouth. Is it fair to say that, if on any
occasion that you had to look up toward the Main Street ramp, if there
had been a man walking down that ramp, you or any other officer with
vision like yourself would have been able to recognize that person
coming down the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know whether you could have recognized him or not
due to the fact that you were looking into sunlight.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, that is the north side of the building.
Mr. HARRISON. That is on the north side of the building, but it was
very bright that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you also had floodlights down in the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was bright in the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your eyes would be accustomed to those bright lights?
Mr. HARRISON. A man coming down, if he got close to you, you could
recognize him, but just a man in a suit walking down that ramp, it
would have been hard to recognize. I will put it that way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, would a man walking down from the Main Street side
have been any more difficult to recognize than a man that was standing
up in the position that Captain Butler was or Assistant Chief Batchelor
was?
Mr. HARRISON. Batchelor and Butler, Lieutenant Butler.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would it have been any more difficult to recognize a man
coming down the Main Street ramp than it would those two men coming up
the Commerce Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I believe it would have been, due to the glare in
your face.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were you keeping an eye out generally for people,
news people, who might try to drift over into that area, and by "that
area," I am referring to the area along the Main Street ramp, across
the Main Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Would you ask that question again?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. And point out there, please.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. I am referring to the area that goes directly across
the Main Street ramp down to the base of the ramp. That area, as I
understand it, was supposed to be kept clear. Were you keeping an eye
out to make sure that people didn't congregate in there?
Mr. HARRISON. There was several officers in this area right in here.
I don't know the names of them. I couldn't spot any of them for you.
There was one newsman, who had a microphone, immediately to my right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, your right as you faced in what direction?
Mr. HARRISON. As I was facing south.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That would be toward Commerce Street?
Mr. HARRISON. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At what point was there a man there?
Mr. HARRISON. He was even with me.