Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what intersection?
Mr. HARRISON. Young and Pearl Expressway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you come into the building with any of your fellow
officers?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what entrance you came into the building
through?
Mr. HARRISON. I drove into the basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am talking about the police department building.
Mr. HARRISON. I drove into the basement of the city hall there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Oh, I thought you parked your car there.
Mr. HARRISON. I did. I parked my personal car on the parking lot across
from the police garage on Young and Pearl.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. HARRISON. I picked up a city car at the garage, drove to the
basement of the city hall, where I parked it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. What car number was it?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall. Don't have any idea.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there any sort of record that is maintained on what
cars you drive?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we fill out a slip on each car we drive every day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you fill out a slip on that car?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, where do you get the keys to one of those cars that
is over there?
Mr. HARRISON. They are left in the car, they are in the cars.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And are they kept in a locked garage, is that it?
Mr. HARRISON. No; it is a two-story parking affair, enclosed in a fence
up to, you know----
Mr. GRIFFIN. And there is a guard on the fence?
Mr. HARRISON. No; there is no guard.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, was there any particular reason for taking that car
that day?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we always park our personal car and pick up our
city car and drive over close to the city hall there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. And it is part of your responsibility, you
ordinarily pick up a car?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have a particular car assigned to you?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no. We have a pool system.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you drive back with anybody to the police department?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I was alone that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it that you parked the car in the garage of the
municipal building and walked by the jail office?
Mr. HARRISON. To the elevator.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. When you arrived, were there any newspaper people
down in the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. In the basement?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir; not that I recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether there were any TV cameras set up
when you arrived that day in the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you came in, I take it that you came in down the Main
Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there a guard on the Main Street ramp at the time that
you came?
Mr. HARRISON. Not at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you got up to the third floor? Is
that right?
Mr. HARRISON. I went to the juvenile bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go to the locker room first?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You went right up to the juvenile bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On the third floor?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who was there in the juvenile bureau when
you got in?
Mr. HARRISON. No. Goolsby was working the desk and Mrs. McLine was
there and Miller and Lowery. I believe Cutchshaw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anybody else that you recall?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Captain Martin there?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall seeing him when I first come in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you arrived, what did you do as soon as you arrived
up there in the juvenile bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. We checked to see what we had assigned to us. They assign
the beeves of a morning when we first come in and put a copy of it in
our drawer, and we always check the first thing to see if we have any
messages or if there has been anything assigned to us to work on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you have anything assigned to you at that time to
work on?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you did after you checked your
assignments?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, Miller and I went to eat breakfast. I don't know
the exact time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you estimate that was after you arrived?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't have any idea. Approximately 20 or 30 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you talk with anybody concerning what was going
on in the homicide office or what was going on in connection with Lee
Oswald when you came in?
Mr. HARRISON. I beg your pardon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you come into the juvenile bureau, did you talk to
any of the people in connection with what was happening with Lee Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. Not that I recall. I may have asked if he was still up
there. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that--excuse me.
Mr. MacMaster, this is Mr. Hubert of our office. Mr. MacMaster is
assistant city attorney. This is Mr. Harrison, Mr. Hubert.
Mr. HARRISON. Hello. Glad to see you, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that you arrived in the building, had you
heard anything in connection with the movement of Lee Harvey Oswald to
the county jail?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I hadn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you heard anything about whether he was going to be
moved at all that day?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, the--they were talking, the pressmen were talking
about it out in the hall as we come by.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you hear the press people say?
Mr. HARRISON. They said he would be moved sometime that morning, and I
couldn't tell you who the pressmen were or anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Officer Miller about this when you got
in?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with any of the officers about this?
Mr. HARRISON. When Captain Martin came in, I believe we had gone to get
breakfast, and when we got back, they told us to stay around the bureau
there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, when you went out to get breakfast, where did
you have breakfast?
Mr. HARRISON. At the Deluxe Diner there at the 1900 block of Commerce.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Whose suggestion was it to go out for breakfast?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know. Mine or Miller's one. I don't remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ask anybody else to go with you?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was just you and Miller that went to the Deluxe Diner?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see anybody at the Deluxe Diner that you knew?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know the people who operate the diner or the
waitresses?
Mr. HARRISON. No. I know some of them that work over there, but I don't
recall who was working that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you visit there often enough so that they know you?
Mr. HARRISON. Some of the employees do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, before you left the juvenile bureau, who did you talk
with before going? You didn't ask anybody to come with you. Did you
tell anybody that you were going out?
Mr. HARRISON. We told the deskman, Goolsby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Goolsby?
Mr. HARRISON. We were going over to get a cup of coffee.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, how long did you remain at the Deluxe Diner?
Mr. HARRISON. I would say around 30 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anything happen over there?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk about the movement of Lee Oswald at all?
Mr. HARRISON. No. We didn't know anything about it then.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what you talked about over there?
Mr. HARRISON. I sure don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Speculation about whether they were going to get a story
out of him, a confession, or anything like that?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how did you happen to decide to leave the diner?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we were through eating and went back over to the
city hall there to the bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if you talked with anybody while you were
over at the Deluxe Diner?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether you talked with any--had any
telephone calls when you were there?
Mr. HARRISON. I believe I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay.
Mr. HARRISON. I believe I did have a phone call.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. What do you remember about the phone call?
Mr. HARRISON. I believe it was Goolsby. He called us and told us not to
leave the city hall, that was the captain's order, Captain Martin's
order. He told us to come on back to the bureau when we got through
eating.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. HARRISON. I recall that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, when you got back to the bureau, did you
report back in to Goolsby?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, he saw us come in. We didn't have to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Captain Martin when you got back?
Mr. HARRISON. I believe he was there when we got back in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to anybody when you got back about the
proposed movement of Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. No. Of course, it may have been discussed there as to
what time it would be. I don't recall who was talking or what was said,
but I know we were told to stand by the bureau there by Captain Martin.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when did Martin tell you this?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, actually, on this phone call Goolsby made over
there, he told us that the captain had told us to stand by there in the
bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. HARRISON. When we got back up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did Martin then tell you the same thing when you got
up?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall whether he did or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how long was it between the time that you got this
call from Goolsby and you actually went down to the basement in
connection with the movement of Lee Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. I would say about 2 hours.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you came back from the diner, how did you come back
into the building?
Mr. HARRISON. Came across to Harwood Street and down to the Harwood
Street entrance to the city hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And when you went out, did you go out that way or did you
go out by the Commerce Street entrance?
Mr. HARRISON. Went that way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you see anybody around the police building at
that time whom you recognized that wasn't either a police officer or a
newspaperman?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir; when we came back, there was a man by the name
of Johnny Miller, who owns a trailer house sales on West Davis. It
is right across from Sivils parking lot there. It is a trailer sales
company. He was standing in the door of this television company truck
talking, and he turned around and shook hands with me and spoke to me,
and I went on in the building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what he said to you?
Mr. HARRISON. He just spoke to me and shook hands with me said he was
glad to see me, and that is the extent of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Does Miller know Ruby, to your knowledge?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know. I don't know that, whether he knows him or
not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anything that would lead you to think that he might?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I have known Miller just about the same length of
time that I have known Ruby, but I don't know whether he even knew Ruby
or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is Miller a close, personal friend of yours?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no; just an acquaintance. Oh, I have stopped out
there at his place and sat there and talked to him and have gone and
had coffee with him, but just an acquaintance, not a personal friend.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this a TV sales and repair shop that he runs?
Mr. HARRISON. No; a house trailer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am sorry. House trailer. House trailer. Okay. Now, do
you remember what you did in those roughly 2 hours between the time you
got back up to the juvenile bureau and the time that you went down to
the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir; I don't recall, except sitting up there
answering the phone and just checking on beeves that I had had assigned
to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you all keeping your eye out for when Oswald would be
moved?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we knew that we would be told, that someone would
come and get us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any idea of what would be the occasion for
moving Oswald, what would be done before Oswald would be moved?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you aware that the homicide people were questioning
Oswald at that time?
Mr. HARRISON. We didn't know they were. We assumed that they were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there reporters running in and out of the office?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they talking about the events that were going on?
Mr. HARRISON. They were mostly using the phone. They weren't talking to
us. They were mostly calling their home office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. They were using the phone in your office?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were able to hear what they were saying over the
telephone?
Mr. HARRISON. I didn't pay any attention to what they were saying.
There were three of us in there that morning. All we told them was to
leave us three lines open because we were pretty busy ourselves.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the next thing you recall in connection with the
movement of Lee Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. About, I would say, 3 or 4 or 5 minutes to 11. I went
down to the subbasement to get me some cigars, and as I come back up
out of the subbasement, well, then the officers out of our bureau were
going across from the elevator to the--to there in front of the jail
office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, there are two basements, as I understand it, in the
Police and Courts Building. One is the basement level that the garage
is on and the jail office and the records room?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then there is a subbasement?
Mr. HARRISON. Locker room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Locker room down below that. Now, how did you get down
from the third floor into the subbasement? Does the elevator go all of
the way down?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no; it stops at the floor where the jail office is.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. When you get out of the jail office, where do
you have to go?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, actually to the south end.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You walk down to the hallway and then you open a door?
Mr. HARRISON. No; you go down a stairway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Go down a stairway?
Mr. HARRISON. Into the subbasement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, there is, is there not, a doorway, as you walk from
Commerce Street down the steps to go to the door that entered into
the building and through the hallway that you had walked down? Do you
follow me?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's suppose that you walked from the record room to
the subbasement by way of the hallway that leads out towards Commerce
Street.
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, that hallway has a door that goes out of the
building, does it not?
Mr. HARRISON. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And when you open that door and go out of the building,
there are two other doors, right?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, isn't there a door on your--on your left as you face
Commerce Street, isn't there a door on your left that goes into the
engine room?
Mr. HARRISON. Actually, I have never--I believe there is a door there.
It is underneath where the stairway goes up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, there is a door straight ahead where the stairway
goes up? In other words, as you walk out of the door from the building
to leave the building and you step out of there, there is another door
right in front of you right under this stairs----
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Isn't there?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, that door leads down to the subbasement, doesn't it?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I have never been down that way. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. From the assembly room, in the assembly room,
where is this cigar dispensing machine?
Mr. HARRISON. They are not in the assembly room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Not in the assembly room, in the locker room.
Mr. HARRISON. In the locker room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is it located?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know how to describe it to you. The machine is
about, I guess, 18 foot from the door--from the stairway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the far south end?
Mr. HARRISON. No; it is kind of west of the stairway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. West of the stairway, but it is on the south side of the
room, it is on the side closest to Commerce Street?
Mr. HARRISON. No; that is where all of the locker rooms are, lockers
are.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. HARRISON. Now, there is a door that separates the locker room from
the area where the cold drinks and where the----
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. HARRISON. Where the cold drinks and the cigar machine and the
cigarette machines are, there is a door that separates that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We are all talking about the same thing here. I am not
sure that Mr. MacMaster knows what we are talking about here. Would
you draw Main Street or draw Commerce Street up on one end, which is
convenient to you, and draw Harwood, and why don't you label them,
write "Main," "Commerce," and "Harwood" in the appropriate spots? All
right. Where is the doorway that you entered the locker room by, where
would that be?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, now, this being the stair down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. There is no door here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. HARRISON. There is a wall approximately in this position and there
is a double door here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. HARRISON. All right. There is a big post here. It has a telephone
on it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. Cigar machine sits right here beside of this post.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. HARRISON. And the Dr. Pepper and coke machines are all up and down
this right side.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. What is in this area to the south of the
doorway?
Mr. HARRISON. This?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. Lockers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you draw that in there, write that in there? Write
"Locker Room" or something. Did you have a locker in there?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was your locker located, approximately?
Mr. HARRISON. Down here, however it hadn't been used in over 2-1/2 or 3
years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see anybody down here when you went down there to
get the cigars?
Mr. HARRISON. There was no one down there when I went down there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any occasion to go into the locker room?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did you do after you got the cigars?
Mr. HARRISON. Went back upstairs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you see anybody on the way up or down whom you
recognized as not being a newspaperman or a police officer.
Mr. HARRISON. Well, at that time, there was no one in that immediate
area. The officers were going across from the elevator to the jail
office, the officers out of the juvenile bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So when you came up, you found the officers had left?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean had left the juvenile bureau, right?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, they were leaving the elevator coming across.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you met them in the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. Met them in the basement, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who did you see there at that time?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, there was Miller, Lowery and Cutchshaw, Goolsby,
and I believe that was all out of our bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what did you do when you saw them?
Mr. HARRISON. One of them told me to come on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember which one that was?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall who it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where did you go with them?
Mr. HARRISON. We stood in front of the jail office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what happened as you waited around there?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we were waiting around to get--find out where they
were going to put us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you finally get some instructions from somebody?
Mr. HARRISON. I believe it was Captain Jones that come in and told us
that--to come on out into the area there in the driveway, and he told
us that he wanted all of the newsmen on the east side of the drive and
that he wanted nothing but officers over in this corridor here and
where the--well, on the west wall, in other words.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let's go off of the record here. I want to find out.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to mark this diagram that you have drawn here
Harrison Exhibit 5027, and I am going to ask you, Officer Harrison, if
you will just put in here "coke machine" or whatever these things are,
"cigar machine."
Mr. HARRISON. This is a post here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. A post. A support post. All right. Why don't you mark that
post, then? And then mark the area where the--okay. Now, and that is
"door." Okay. Now, would you sign that any place where you can get your
signature and then date it?
(Recess.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. We were at the point where you had come into the basement
area and seen the people coming down from the juvenile bureau. Before
you went down there, had you left word that you would be down in the
locker room?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I told Goolsby that I was going down and get me some
cigars.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did there come a time when you were down in the basement
that somebody gave you some instructions as to what was to be done?
Mr. HARRISON. Captain Jones, I believe it was, had come out and told
us to go out into the ramp area, the garage, and to set--to put these
photographers and newspeople on the east side of the driveway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Will you take this map, diagram or chart (Harrison Exhibit
5028) which is--actually is a reduction of a chart that the Dallas
Police Department made for us some time ago and purports to represent
the basement area? You can see the jail office here?
Mr. HARRISON. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you can see Commerce Street over here and Main Street
here and the garage area here and the Main Street ramp going down
and the Commerce Street ramp going up, and this shows a solid wall
along Commerce Street here. Actually, this is the basement wall. The
basement extends out under the sidewalk, but if you were looking at
this at ground level, you would see this broken line is the wall of the
building. Now, directing your attention to the part that shows the exit
from the jail office and the ramps and the entrance into the garage,
can you mark on there what Captain Jones--how Captain Jones indicated
that the newspeople were to be displaced by the officers?
Mr. HARRISON. He wanted them across along here on this side.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you want to put a series of "X's" or something along
there to show?
Mr. HARRISON. You want to put "news"?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; you might put some mark on there. This would be news
media, newspeople, also?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don't you mark that "news," also? Now, were there to
be any newspaper people from the northern side of the entrance to the
garage on up toward the Main Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. There were some.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But what instructions did he give in that regard?
Mr. HARRISON. He didn't. He just stated that he wanted them on the east
side of the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did he say anything with respect to whether he wanted
them on the east side or the west side of the railing?
Mr. HARRISON. No; he didn't specify that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it your understanding that there were to be no news
media in this area other than the TV people?
Mr. HARRISON. In this area right here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What about in the area to the north of where you have
placed the "X's"? Was it your understanding that----
Mr. HARRISON. There were floodlights standing here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where you are placing circles on the map. Now, did he
give--go ahead.
Mr. HARRISON. There were cameras here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did he give instructions as to where the police
officers were to stand?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he give any instructions with respect to forming any
lines of police officers or anything like that?
Mr. HARRISON. I didn't hear it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how long was this before Lee Oswald was brought down
that these instructions were given?
Mr. HARRISON. This was approximately, oh, maybe 10 or 11 minutes before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do in that 10 or 11 minutes?
Mr. HARRISON. I took up a position in the ramp area here and assisted
with getting the newsmen on the east side of the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you stay in the same general area?
Mr. HARRISON. I did; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you indicate on the map by a circle and an "X" where
was it you were, generally?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Actually, Mr. MacMaster, if you feel like you would like
to recess this at some particular hour, let me know.
Mr. MacMASTER. Let me suggest this. Do you have any idea how long this
interrogation will last?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wouldn't expect it to go more than 45 minutes.
Mr. MacMASTER. More?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; I don't think it will go any longer than that,
however----
Mr. MacMASTER. What is your--would you just rather stay and finish?
Mr. HARRISON. I would rather stay and finish.
Mr. MacMASTER. All right. I wonder if I may make my one phone call here
on the phone?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sure.
Mr. HARRISON. May I ask you something here?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Let's wait until he finishes.
Mr. MacMASTER. Well, let's go ahead. My 13-year-old daughter is on the
phone, so that is a career itself trying to get home. I am not going to
worry about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Feel free at any time to interrupt me. Go ahead. You
wanted to ask me.
Mr. HARRISON. I made these two things setting too far away. Actually,
this camera was setting in this first aisle, one of them was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. HARRISON. The cameras were right in line here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you were making an effort to steer these news people
over into this area and away from the Main Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall when Sam Pierce's car drove out?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir; I do. I let the--I had to move the people back
out of the way. There was actually two cars went out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There were two cars?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, tell me about that.
Mr. HARRISON. Well, there was a patrolman went out that direction in a
squad car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know who that was?
Mr. HARRISON. I believe it was Mr. O'Dell.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how long before or after Pierce's car did he go out?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, now, it was some 3 or 4 or 5 minutes, something
like that, I am sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, let's focus on Mr. O'Dell's car, then. Was
anybody in the car with him?
Mr. HARRISON. Not that I recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know what--for what purpose he went out?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What division is he assigned to?
Mr. HARRISON. Radio patrol.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were you aware, while you were down in the basement,
of anybody being dispatched to change the positioning of the people
along the street who were supposed to block off Elm Street?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any knowledge at all of how the route was to
go, how Oswald was to be conveyed?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have any knowledge as to what was to be used
to convey him?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, when we got down there, they were bringing this
armored car, backing the armored car, into the south end or Commerce
Street side of the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall or would you have been in a position to see
whether the armored car was actually in the ramp when you arrived on
the scene?
Mr. HARRISON. They were backing it in at the time that we came out into
the driveway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Were you able to tell whether it would appear that
it had just got to the ramp or how long it had been there?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did O'Dell get his car from?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know that. The first time I noticed it was when
he came up here through the newsmen. I got them to move back where
he could get by, and then there was a couple of men standing up here
talking. I believe it was one of the--one of the supervisors talking to
a reserve captain, who was standing there. I believe it was Arnett. I
am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, there were--at the time that O'Dell's car went out,
there were police officers in the direction of the Main Street ramp,
closer to Main Street than you were?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you place on there all of the--all right. Let me
strike that. Go ahead. Tell me what you want to say.
Mr. HARRISON. At the time that O'Dell's car came out, I was back here,
in this position here, to help get these men out of the way of the car,
and then it was shortly after that that I took up this position here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. All right. Now, at the time that O'Dell's car came
out--well, let's strike this. Prior to the time that O'Dell's car came
out, were you ever in this area here?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I was moving from this area around to here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.