All right, was that done? Were the cars moved?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir; they were moved from those two parking spaces.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened next?
Mr. STEVENSON. At that time we all returned back up to the third floor.
That was approximately, I would say, 8:40 or 8:45.
Mr. HUBERT. That would be you and Captain Batchelor?
Mr. STEVENSON. That would be me and Assistant Chief Batchelor and Chief
Curry.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. STEVENSON. We went back upstairs, and I would say 30 minutes
later, or approximately 9 or 9:15, Chief Curry and Chief Batchelor had
discussed the possibility of moving the prisoner in an armored car due
to some threats--incidentally, I have to drop back a little.
Chief Batchelor notified me, when I met him down there that morning,
that Captain Frazier, I believe it was, had called him at home and told
him that the FBI had called up with some information that, I won't say
how many, but a group of people were going to take Oswald away from the
officers on the transfer.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Captain Frazier tell you?
Mr. STEVENSON. No; he called Chief Batchelor, and he told me that
Captain Frazier had called him.
Mr. HUBERT. Told him there had been a message received from the FBI
that someone had called the FBI?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Stating that there would be an effort made; is that correct?
Mr. STEVENSON. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Captain Batchelor indicate to you at that time whether
the FBI knew who had made this call?
Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate to you that it was an anonymous call?
Mr. STEVENSON. I believe, as I remember, he did say that the message
that he got was that an anonymous caller had notified the FBI.
Mr. HUBERT. All right; go ahead with it then.
Mr. STEVENSON. They had discussed the possibility of transferring
the prisoner in an armored car due to these threats. I walked in the
office, in the chief's office while that was being discussed, and the
chief asked me what I thought about it.
I told him I thought it would be a good idea, in view of the threats.
Chief Batchelor went to his office to contact one of the local
armored truck operators, who was, I believe, a Mr. Fleming, and made
arrangements to get an armored truck. I remained around the office on
the third floor, and I believe Chief Batchelor and I made another trip
down in the basement before I went after some coffee.
Chief Batchelor advised Chief Curry he had ordered the armored truck
and told Chief Curry, he and I were going to the basement and look the
area over. We went to the basement, and Captain Talbert had set up,
what we thought, was a very good security.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see it yourself?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes; I saw the officers, where they were distributed.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state then for the record just what you saw, what
you stated you considered to be good security? And it might be that you
will want to use that chart to indicate what you mean.
Mr. STEVENSON. He had placed officers--he had not stationed them
definitely, but he had officers there checking everybody that came
into the basement. He had officers down there that searched the entire
basement area, searching cars, on top of the heat conduits, and so
forth. He had officers on the ramp up here.
Mr. HUBERT. Wait a minute, you say, "up here"?
Mr. STEVENSON. At the top of the Commerce Street ramp.
Mr. HUBERT. How many officers did he have there?
Mr. STEVENSON. I don't know just how many. He had some reserve and
regular officers. And Captain Arnett advised us, I believe it was on
this trip, that he had been instructed by Captain Talbert to move all
of the people to the southside of Commerce Street, permit none of them
to congregate on the city hall or Police and Courts Building side of
Commerce, and that he had done that. We observed that the crowd was
across the street. He had an officer stationed up here at the top of
the Main Street ramp.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that officer's name?
Mr. STEVENSON. Vaughn, I believe it was.
Mr. HUBERT. I wonder if you would write his name there in your own
handwriting.
Let the record indicate that Mr. Stevenson is writing the name of the
Officer Vaughn on Exhibit 5050.
Can you tell us what officers you saw in the basement area?
Mr. STEVENSON. At that time when I was down there, I cannot say other
than that I did see Captain Talbert. He was all over the area.
Mr. HUBERT. What time was this, about, again?
Mr. STEVENSON. This was around 9:45, I guess. As best I recall the time
on that.
Mr. HUBERT. Any of the news people there then?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir; there were a few. This camera had been moved.
They were back over in this area back in here.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, you are indicating on the chart that they had
been moved to what is called there the parking area?
Mr. STEVENSON. Parking area of the basement; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right; go ahead.
Mr. STEVENSON. We returned back upstairs to the third floor. Chief
Lumpkin and I went to the second floor to the patrol captain's office.
Captain Talbert came up to the office and asked us to have a cup of
coffee with him, which we did. He asked us at this time about the time
of the route of the transfer. We told him at that time that we didn't
know definitely, but that we believed that it would be east on Commerce
to Central, north on Central to Main, and west on Main to the county
jail.
Mr. HUBERT. You say that you were not certain of that information, but
that you had gathered it? Could you expand on that and tell us where
you think you got that information? As far as you are concerned, then,
there had been no plans that you knew of as to the route?
Mr. STEVENSON. Not the exact route at 9:45 or 10 o'clock, somewhere in
that area. He asked us what route it would travel, and we told him that
we believed that it would go up to the Central Expressway and west on
Main at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. When you used the pronoun "we," whom do you mean?
Mr. STEVENSON. Chief Lumpkin and I.
Mr. HUBERT. So that the route, so far as you knew it at that time,
would be out of the Commerce Street exit, turning left, going beyond
Pearl Street, which was one way against the direction which you wanted
to go, and then over to North Central Expressway?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Turning left again and going to Main Street, turning left
again, and then all the way down Main to Houston?
Mr. STEVENSON. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give any instructions, or did he indicate what he
was going to do in connection with that plan?
Mr. STEVENSON. He said that he would call 10 men from his outside
patrol and place one at each intersection on the route that would be
taken to the county jail, which, as I said, at that time we figured
would be Main Street, and he did make necessary arrangements.
Mr. HUBERT. All right then; go ahead.
Mr. STEVENSON. After we had drunk a cup of coffee, we returned back to
the third floor and were advised a few moments later--Chief Batchelor
advised me that the man had called him and that he was preparing to
send the truck now. We again went to the basement, he and I, to see
about the arrival of the armored truck.
I instructed Detective Captain O. A. Jones to go to the top of the
Commerce Street ramp leading out of the basement to notify the two
officers who were on duty there, to assist the truck when it came up
and get it backed in as far as it would go down the ramp. Captain Jones
did this and advised me that he also told Captain Talbert what he had
done so that Captain Talbert would not move the officers when they got
there. The truck was en route at that time.
After the truck arrived and was backed in, Chief Batchelor advised
me that he and Lieutenant Smart opened the truck up and searched it
completely, taking out, I believe, a couple of empty Coca-Cola bottles
or soft drink bottles.
I had returned to the third floor, went to the homicide office,
homicide bureau office, Chief Curry, Lieutenant Pierce, Captain Fritz,
and I believe an FBI agent, and Lee Harvey Oswald was in Captain Fritz'
office and some Federal officer had been interviewing him, oh, I would
say at least for an hour, and I was advised at that time by Chief
Curry----
Mr. HUBERT. What time was that?
Mr. STEVENSON. That was about 11:10 or 11:15--that they had changed
their plans after discussing it with Captain Fritz and that instead of
using the armored truck to transport the prisoner to the county jail,
they would use the truck as a decoy because a car would be much more
maneuverable if a crowd tried or anyone started to stop the car or
take the prisoner, that the truck would proceed east on Commerce from
the Commerce Street ramp to the Central Expressway north, north to Elm
Street, Elm Street west to Houston, and would turn left and not stop at
the county jail, but pass by the county jail on Houston, that the car
carrying the prisoner followed by another car of detectives, and Chief
Curry's car, which was also parked out in the street, would leave the
truck at Main Street on North Central and turn west down Main Street
and proceed directly to the county jail.
And the sheriff's office had been notified and would have the steel
gate open where the car could drive in and the gate could be closed
directly behind it. When given this information, I left the homicide
bureau and started back to the basement.
I met Chief Lumpkin at the elevator on the way to the basement and
I advised him of the change in plan. On arriving at the basement, I
advised Chief Batchelor and Captain Jones of the change in the plan.
I had been in the basement a minute or two after I had advised them of
the change, and two detectives were bringing two police and plain cars
from the parking area proper onto the ramp from the parking area.
I stepped across the driveway and instructed the officers there to
assist the detective in getting these cars up on the ramp where it
could back into, to pick the prisoner up, and follow the last car which
was driven by Detective Dhority. As I came out of the parking area, the
car pulled onto the ramp to back up.