Captain JONES. In the direction of the driveway, and after getting
them out there, not knowing the specific instructions that might have
been given I said, "Chief Batchelor, would it be possible to have all
this media be placed north of a line from the east corner of the jail
office--all right. To move all the news media north of a line formed
from the corner of the jail office from the corridor to across the ramp
leading down from Main Street, to have all reporters north of that
line, and that east of a line running off from this point across the
driveway going south down to the exit from the basement parking area."
Mr. HUBERT. All right, I am going to mark, as you have indicated on
the map, by making a line starting--with the letter "A" on the corner
formed by the intersection of the jail corridor and the basement ramp
moving east to a point, "B", which I am marking----
Captain JONES. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Which is the east side of the ramp, and to another point
marked "C".
Captain JONES. Well, now, actually, that line would extend all the way
up here at that time. I meant to keep them back on those two--and in
order----
Mr. HUBERT. Am I correct in what your suggestion was that the news
media should be kept north of the line marked A and B?
Captain JONES. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. And east of the line which runs "B to C," the point "C"?
Captain JONES. I didn't spell it out in those details, but that is the
general idea, yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. "B" being the top of the Commerce Street ramp?
Captain JONES. For this reason, that we would have only two sides to
watch. The rest of it would be more or less brick wall, and he agreed
to that. The officers were stationed previously by other people along
these lines, so, I went out there with some of these officers and I
don't know how many, and we did get those people back.
Mr. HUBERT. You got them back?
Captain JONES. We got them back fairly well at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Behind the lines?
Captain JONES. Behind these lines. In fact, there at one time it was
completely clear.
Mr. HUBERT. That would have been how long before Oswald came down?
Captain JONES. There again, I couldn't say. It was a matter of a few
minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell me how many people were in the area that I am
marking with a pen, "Area A"?
Captain JONES. I cannot tell you.
Mr. HUBERT. Which is to say, the area north of the line "A", which you
recently drew?
Captain JONES. Mr. Hubert, that would be truly a guess on my part
along with knowledge obtained later and watching these TV films.
Unconsciously, I would have to use that, for I don't have any idea on
it.
Mr. HUBERT. Were they standing shoulder to shoulder across the ramp?
Captain JONES. It wasn't when we first pushed them back there, it
was possibly six or eight people, and possibly a few more than that
including officers. I didn't stop to--told the officers, "Get them
back," "get them back."
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I am talking about an area called "B", can you give me
any comment as to how many people roughly were in there?
Captain JONES. I couldn't guess. A few minutes later I can tell you
there was quite a few people there, but----
Mr. HUBERT. We'll get to there. Suppose we get to that. Now then, at
the time Oswald was brought down, can you tell me how many people,
roughly, were in Area "A" and Area "B"?
Captain JONES. No, sir; I find myself with figures there that--that I
do not know whether they are right or not.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Captain JONES. What I would want to say, that I did see several people,
and I was up there personally, and I don't know exactly who they were,
but I was attempting to push them back at that time. So, we can get to
that any minute, but as far as giving you a figure or definite number
or something, I couldn't do it with any degree of accuracy.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. Do you know of your own knowledge what
procedures were being used for checking people in that whole downstairs
or basement area, including the ramp and so forth?
Captain JONES. I know only one instance of--somewhere on the way down
there that morning, whether it was up on the third floor or whether--I
believe it was off of the elevator, just coming off of the elevator I
was asked for an identification.
Mr. HUBERT. You were in civilian clothes?
Captain JONES. I was in civilian clothes, yes, sir. I was asked, and
that is the only time. I did not give the instruction. These officers
were placed there prior to that, on the outside lines, and I don't know
of my own knowledge.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, then, proceed with the chronological sequence.
Captain JONES. The chronological sequence, after getting these people
out of the jail office and out of the corridors and driveway to these
two points of which we were speaking, then I was somewhere just
south of this point marked "B" on the driveway when Chief Stevenson
approached me and said, "There has been a change in plan. We are going
to put two cars on the driveway and use them." Now, sometime in between
there, and I can't tell you the exact time I am aware of a blur of a
car going out the wrong way. I didn't see who was in it, and I didn't
take too much awareness of it. I don't know just when it was.