Mr. HUBERT. Relative to what document?
Captain JONES. 5056. Document 5056; that would be the first complete
paragraph on page 3, where it states, "Jones states that he did know
Ruby and had known him prior to 1952, when he ran the Silver Spur, a
nightclub on South Central. He stated that prior to 1952, he was a
lieutenant covering this district and did go into the Silver Spur, at
the most, six times looking for white subjects."
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state your comments on that?
Captain JONES. The comment is that, "Jones stated that he did know
Ruby and had known him prior to 1952, when he ran the Silver Spur, a
nightclub on South Ervay." The next sentence should read, "He stated
that prior to 1952, he was a detective assigned mostly to colored
cases, but that occasionally we were assigned cases involving white
suspects, and on a few occasions did go in the Silver Spur during those
investigations."
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Captain JONES. I was asked how many times, and I could not estimate how
many times. I said, "Not over six times, probably, altogether."
Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it this way to you. Did you know him well enough
so that you would have recognized him had he walked into a room?
Captain JONES. That is a question in my mind that I doubt very much
that I would have. I did recognize him in the basement after someone
said--before I ever saw who it ever was in custody, that it was
Jack Ruby, and when I was told that in advance I did recognize him.
Otherwise, it is possible that I might have recognized him had I been
given that opportunity but I did not have the opportunity.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him, that is to say, Jack Ruby, in your rounds
of the basement any time, from the shooting of the President until the
shooting of Oswald?
Captain JONES. To recognize him as such, I did not see him to recognize
him then. And after seeing him at the time of the arrest, I did not
recall having seen him even as a face in the crowd prior to that.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say that now with the consideration after having
been told that it was Jack Ruby and recognizing him, you still don't
remember having seen----
Captain JONES. I did not see that particular man in there, and not
having recognized him, I don't recall seeing that face, at any time.
This is with the full knowledge that since this matter I have found
that one of my own men filed a simple assault case on him about a year
ago, but I wasn't aware of that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know of any plans that had been made at that time
for the transportation of Oswald, prior to leaving to go home on
Saturday night, the 23d of November?
Captain JONES. That is one of the questions that I am going to have
to say that things have come up that during my investigation that
I headed following the shooting of Oswald, by Ruby--that I headed
a team of several lieutenants, and one detective investigating the
security in the basement--and I have some knowledge as a result of that
investigation, that no one came to me and told me about the possible
transfer, or--possible transfer, or any plans for a transfer prior to
me going home Saturday night.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware that the plan was not to transfer Oswald
until at least 10 o'clock on Sunday morning?
Captain JONES. It seems to me as if possibly there was something about
that in my mind, but I can't tell you where I got it, but there was
some talk around there. I don't know whether the time was 10 o'clock,
or 9 o'clock, and since that time I have talked to people that said,
"I don't know," but it does seem to me that I was under the impression
that when I got up Sunday morning that if I got down there before 9
o'clock, he possibly would not have been transferred by that time, but
so help me, I cannot think--I cannot say how that I knew that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it to you another way. Were you given any
specific duty to perform or anything relative to the transfer whenever
that would take place?
Captain JONES. You mean prior to that 11 o'clock, when I was sent to
the basement?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; prior to Saturday night.
Captain JONES. No, sir.