The House adjourned.
THURSDAY, April 16.
The House proceeded, by ballot, to the appointment of a committee of
five, to attend, with a committee from the Senate, to receive the
President of the United States at such place as he shall embark at from
New Jersey for this city.
The members elected were Messrs. BOUDINOT, BLAND, TUCKER, BENSON, and
LAWRENCE.
On motion,
_Ordered_, That Messrs. GILMAN, AMES, and GALE, be a committee, in
conjunction with a committee from the Senate, to wait upon the Vice
President of the United States upon his arrival in this city, and to
congratulate him thereupon in the name of the Congress of the United
States.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
State of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair.
Mr. MOORE thought it good policy to encourage the manufacture of
cordage, but was not convinced that it was bad policy to encourage
likewise the growth of the raw material in America, so that we might
become as independent of all the world for this article, as we are
already for every other used in the structure of vessels. He believed it
would be difficult to persuade the farmer that his interest ought to be
neglected to encourage particular artisans: he therefore begged the
committee to do as much for them as was in their power, believing that
the event of such policy would mutually benefit the manufacturer and
agriculturist.
Mr. HEISTER remarked, that a heavy duty on hemp would not encourage the
raising of it this year, because the time was elapsed for commencing the
cultivation; but a duty to take place at some future time, would no
doubt be beneficial. He assured the committee of the ability of the land
in America to grow hemp equal to any part of the world; and, therefore,
joined heartily in giving it legislative encouragement, in order to
induce the people to turn their attention more particularly to the
subject, but would recommend the duty to be laid so as to commence its
operation at a distant day.
Mr. WHITE remarked, what was good policy in England might be the
contrary in America. England was a maritime nation, and therefore she
gave a bounty on such articles as were requisite to support her maritime
importance--America was an agricultural country, and therefore ought to
attend to the encouragement of that interest. If the Legislature take no
notice of this article, the people will be led to believe it is not an
object worthy of encouragement, and the spirit of cultivation will be
damped; whereas, if a small duty only was laid, it might point out to
them that it was desirable, and would induce an increase of the
quantity. Our lands are capable of bearing this plant many years without
being exhausted. He could not say exactly what sum would be proper to
fill the blank with, but mentioned seventy-five cents for the
consideration of the committee.
Mr. PARTRIDGE admitted the propriety of encouraging agriculture, but it
ought not to be done at the expense of the ship-builders, especially as
the good would not balance the evil. He told the committee that hemp had
risen, within three or four years, forty per cent. in Russia, owing,
perhaps, to the increased demand which the present northern war
occasioned. This naturally operated to encourage the cultivation in
America, and perhaps was sufficient, without the aid now intended to be
given. If gentlemen were desirous of having it stand among the selected
articles, he should not object, but hoped the duty would not exceed five
per cent. Forty cents were about equal to that rate, and he moved to
fill the blank with that sum.
Mr. WHITE thought with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, that the United
States would furnish this article in sufficient abundance, not only for
home consumption, but for exportation. The maritime powers of Europe do
not raise the article, but obtain it principally from Russia--these
powers are as well disposed to take it from us as from Russia. Our back
lands are extremely well adapted to its cultivation; a road to bring it
to market is opening; the Potomac extends her now navigable waters into
the interior country, and a communication will be established with the
river Ohio and the western waters. The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr.
HARTLEY) had hinted at the propriety of settling the western territory;
it was his opinion that every encouragement ought to be given them to
engage their affection; that the administration of the Government ought
to be such as to give satisfaction to all parts of the Union, but it is
peculiarly our interest to render that country advantageous; her fertile
lands, and streams easy of descent, would pour into the Atlantic States,
through the channels he had mentioned, a profusion of wealth, and hemp
in abundance. The Shenandoah river disembogues into the Potomac, the
South Branch communicates with it also, and a number of other rivers
whose lands will produce immense quantities. He considered that this, in
a short time, would do more towards encouraging ship-building than a
bounty, as had been mentioned by some gentlemen.
Mr. BURKE thought it proper to suggest to the committee what might be
the probable effect of the proposed measure in the State he represented,
(South Carolina,) and the adjoining one (Georgia.) The staple products
of that part of the Union were hardly worth cultivation, on account of
their fall in price; the planters are, therefore, disposed to pursue
some other. The lands are certainly well adapted to the growth of hemp,
and he had no doubt but its culture would be practised with attention.
Cotton is likewise in contemplation among them, and if good seed could
be procured, he hoped it might succeed. But the low, strong, rice lands,
would produce hemp in abundance--many thousand tons even this year, if
it was not so late in the season. He liked the idea of laying a low
duty now, and encouraging it against the time when a supply might be had
from our own cultivation.
Mr. MADISON feared seventy-five cents was too high; he was doubtful
whether it would not have been as well to have left out cordage; for if
a duty on hemp was impolitic because it burthened navigation, so also
was that on cordage. He by no means approved of measures injurious to
ship-building, which he considered in a threefold view: first, as it
related to vessels employed in the coasting trade; second, as it
respected those employed in those channels of trade, the stream of which
depends upon the policy of foreign nations; and third, as it was
connected with vessels built for sale. With respect to the first, no
doubt but we can prevent any discouragement from the operation of the
duty, because we can make such discrimination as will prevent a
rivalship; but, in relation to the two other points, and particularly
the last, he was sensible that every penny laid upon cordage would enter
into the price of the vessel, and, by raising the price, drive the
purchasers to seek a better bargain at other hands. Fearful therefore of
injuring this interest, he should vote for a small duty at present, in
hopes of being able to see, in a little time, sufficient quantities of
hemp brought to market, as predicted, at even a less price than is given
now for the imported.
Mr. SMITH agreed to forty cents, provided the committee would make it
one dollar at the end of two years.
Mr. MADISON could not judge of the alteration in the circumstances of
this country two years hence, and therefore did not like the kind of
provision mentioned. He preferred making it a positive sum, and moved
fifty cents; which was agreed to.
On malt.
Mr. SHERMAN thought this might be struck out, on the same principle that
beef and pork had been, there was none imported.
Mr. FITZSIMONS replied, that there had been considerable and recent
importations of this article into the United States--30,000 bushels in
one year; certainly this interferes with the products of the country. He
moved ten cents per bushel, and it was agreed to.
On motion of Mr. AMES, barley was taxed six cents, and lime one hundred
cents. He just stated that these articles were imported in considerable
quantities from a neighboring State that had not yet adopted the
constitution; and, perhaps, said he, our political situation is such as
to make some regulation on this head necessary.
On nails, spikes, tacks, and brads.
Mr. LEE did not think we were ripe for such extensive manufactures as
some gentlemen seemed desirous of encouraging; but this was particularly
objectionable, because it was a tax upon the improvement of estates,
unless the articles could be furnished as cheap and abundantly at home
as they were by foreign nations. He moved to strike it out.
Mr. MADISON conceived this, like a tax on hemp, would increase the price
on ship-building; spikes and nails were necessary for the construction
of vessels.
Mr. BLAND thought a duty on nails an unequal tax, burthening the
Southern States, but not felt by the Northern, who made only enough for
their own consumption; he opposed it also on account of its being an
article of indispensable necessity.
Mr. GOODHUE informed the gentlemen who were opposed to a duty on nails,
that great quantities of them were manufactured for exportation in
Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, and he believed some other States; and,
in a little time, enough might be made to supply all North America.
Mr. TUCKER judged, from what was said of the little expense and great
facility of manufacturing nails, that it stood in no need of legislative
assistance. Why lay a duty on foreign nails, when they cannot rival you
if you make them as good and as cheap? Will not the five per cent. duty,
with freight and shipping charges, be sufficient encouragement? He
thought it would, and therefore was averse to any other duty. He
observed also, that it would burthen ship-building, and was,
consequently against those employed in that business.
Mr. FITZSIMONS was not very solicitous about the duty. He thought the
manufacturer would have but little to apprehend if the Legislature
should decide against them; for, the fact was, that nails were at this
moment made cheaper and, in the opinion of some judges, better than
those coming from England. Before the revolution, the people in America
were not permitted to erect slitting mills. They now have several, and
are independent of all the world for the materials necessary for
carrying on the business in the most extensive manner. So far as the
duty respected the manufacture in Pennsylvania, it was his opinion that
refusing it would do no material injury, and he believed it would draw
but little money into the treasury; yet, nevertheless, he was willing to
allow a small one, because it conformed to the policy of the States, who
thought it proper, in this manner, to protect their manufactures. He
believed neither spikes nor nails for ship-building were imported; they
were generally large and heavy, and were made in the country, according
to the builder's orders.
On the motion, nails and spikes were taxed one cent per pound, but tacks
and brads were struck out.
On salt, per bushel.
Mr. BURKE.--I need not observe to the committee that this article is a
necessary of life, nor that black cattle, sheep, and horses do not
thrive without it; on these considerations alone I should oppose it; but
I know likewise that it is a tax particularly odious to the inhabitants
of South Carolina and Georgia, to whom the price is already
oppressively great. The back parts of that State are obliged to haul all
they consume, two, three, or four hundred miles in wagons, for which
they pay about seven shillings sterling. Add this to the first cost,
which is about one shilling, though sometimes more, and you will find
the burthen sustained by those who live remote from the sea-shore
sufficiently unequal. I hope, therefore, the committee will not agree to
it.
Mr. LAWRENCE hoped a duty would be laid on the article; it was in
general use, and the consumption so regular, that it was much to be
depended upon as a source of revenue; but the duty ought not to be so
high as to make it oppressive. He moved to impose a duty of six cents
per bushel.
Mr. TUCKER felt an aversion to laying a duty on salt for several
motives. It would bear harder upon the poor than upon the rich. The true
principle of taxation is, that every man contribute to the public
burthens in proportion to the value of his property. But a poor man
consumes as much salt as a rich man. In this point of view, it operates
as a poll-tax, the most odious of all taxes; it does not operate simply
as a poll-tax, but is heavier on the poor than on the rich, because the
poor consume greater quantities of salted provisions than the rich. Nor
does it bear equally upon every part of the country; for it is consumed
in a greater proportion by cattle at a distance, than by those near the
sea shores. Moreover, the duty collected on the importation will enter
into the price of the article, and the countryman will pay the retailer
a profit on the tax, perhaps of four times its amount. For which
reasons, he was more averse to this article being taxed than any other
whatsoever.
Mr. SCOTT declared himself decisively against the duty, although he
admitted a most certain revenue could be drawn from it, on account of
its universal demand and utility. But he did not think these
considerations alone amounted to a sufficient reason why this necessary
article should be taxed; if they did, the argument would prove too much,
it would extend to the use of water and common air. He presumed the old
arguments often urged by gentlemen in favor of manufactures did not
apply, because no encouragement would be sufficient to establish it.
From the nearest part of the Atlantic coast, where salt can be obtained,
to the next nearest in the Western territory, is a distance of eight
hundred or one thousand miles; all the intermediate space must be
supplied from one or the other; over the mountains it must be carried on
pack-horses. This of itself is a sufficient tax upon the consumer; how
oppressive then must it be to increase the burthen.
Mr. MOORE observed upon the inequality, as it respected the consumption
of the article by cattle: some States raised more than others,
consequently they consumed more; some parts of the same State were in a
like situation. The people on the sea-coast pursued merchandise; those
in the back parts raised cattle, which he was bold to say consumed five
times as much salt as the lower country, and would pay the tax in the
same proportion. It has been said, that if they pay more on salt, they
pay less on other articles--agreed to. But there are a number more which
may perhaps unequally affect them; yet it is an argument of small weight
to say, because we in large commercial cities are regulated in a
sumptuary manner for indulging in luxuries, you who are obliged to
retrench them shall pay a tax upon the necessaries of life. In short,
the tax appeared to him not only unpopular, but unjust likewise, and he
would not agree to it.
Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina.)--If any further arguments were necessary
to convince the committee of the impropriety of the present measure,
more might be urged, though what has been said is certainly sufficient
to demonstrate that it will be attended with a great deal of
dissatisfaction, and in proportion to that dissatisfaction will be the
danger of having your laws contemned, opposed, or neglected in the
execution. It is well known, that however small the duty, it will
furnish a pretext to the seller to extort a much greater sum from the
consumer. Another observation. It is believed that the inhabitants of
the interior part of South Carolina are opposed to the new Government;
it will be a melancholy circumstance to entangle ourselves, at this
time, among the shoals of discontent; yet no stronger impulse could be
given for opposition than the proposed tax; conceiving it in this light,
he was against the measure.
Mr. SCOTT added, that the price of salt where he lived was four dollars
a bushel, the country was settled three or four hundred miles beyond
him, and he supposed the price there to be greater.
Mr. LAWRENCE thought it would be better for the committee to take time
to examine what had been urged against the tax, and as it was the usual
time for adjourning, the committee might rise and defer their decision
till to-morrow.
Whereupon the committee rose, and the House adjourned.
FRIDAY, April 17.
BENJAMIN CONTEE, from Maryland, appeared and took his seat.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
state of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair; the question of laying a duty
on salt recurred.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--I had the honor yesterday of delivering my sentiments in
favor of this duty; but observations were made by gentlemen from
different parts of the House against the measure. The principal
objection was, that the tax was an odious one. It was admitted by a
worthy gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. SCOTT) that all taxes are
odious; this is certainly true, for the people are not pleased with
paying them; nothing but necessity will induce a Government to have
recourse to them. It is also true, that some are more odious than
others. From what has been said, it may be seen that a tax on salt is
not so in general, but only in particular parts of the Union; the remote
inhabitants, it is said, will be dissatisfied, because it increases the
price of the commodity, and they use more of it than others. It is
mentioned as partaking of the nature of a capitation tax, but this kind
of tax is odious, more from its manner of operation than its nature. We
find in some States where it is in use, the people live easy under it;
for example, it is not complained of in some of the Eastern States. We
have not much to apprehend from a tax on salt in this State; the people
are satisfied with it; at least the complaints are neither so loud nor
so general, as to make us apprehensive for the existence of the
Government we live under. Its operations, though the contrary was
predicted, go on with as much ease since an impost has been laid, as
they did before. I believe, likewise, we have only to try the
experiment, to be convinced it would have a similar effect throughout
the continent; for I cannot persuade myself that it is generally looked
upon in so odious a light as some gentlemen imagine. It was also said,
that the tax would be unequal, and the objects of inequality were two.
The poor man would pay as much as the rich; but this is not the case;
the rich are generally more profuse in their consumption than the poor;
they have more servants and dependents also to consume it; consequently
the whole amount of their consumption must be in a proportionable ratio.
The other inequality was its different operation in different States,
and even different parts of the same State. On examination, this
objection also may be obviated. Gentlemen tell you the high price of
this article at three or four hundred miles distance; is it not hence
presumable that there they consume as little as possible, while along
the sea-coasts they use it with a liberal hand? But whether it be
consumed on the sea-coast, or on the western waters, the tax is the
same, or but inconsiderably augmented; for I take it the great addition
which is made is in consequence of the charge of carriage. I cannot,
therefore, see by what magic gentlemen will prove to you that it is
increased four or five fold. We must also take into contemplation the
number of persons who consume it; here it will appear, that the weight
of population is much greater on the sea-coast than in the western parts
of Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Carolina, consequently the consumption
must be greater. It was said, the argument I urged was not a good one,
because it proved too much, that an article of general consumption was
not the best article for taxation; now, I believe the maxim is just, and
when examined it will be found so. Taxes, to be just, should affect all,
and equally affect them, and not be left to fall partially upon a few.
This is more the case with salt than any other article which has yet
been taxed, and I believe is the only tax which will get at the pockets
of those to whom it is said to be obnoxious. But how comes it, if the
other articles are equally consumed in the back countries, that
gentlemen did not urge the argument of expense on transportation, and
the pretext that a tax would furnish the seller to extort from the
consumer.
Mr. MADISON.--From the nature of the arguments made use of on this
occasion, it is necessary to proceed with some circumspection, though
not to depart from that policy which can be justified by reason and
experience. I am willing to trust a great deal to the good sense,
justice, and penetration of our fellow-citizens for support; and though
I think it might be just to lay a considerable duty generally on
imported articles, yet it would not be prudent or politic, at this time,
to do so. Let us now proceed to consider the subject before us, on the
principles of justice and principles of policy. In the first point of
view, we may consider the effect it will have on the different
descriptions of people throughout the United States, I mean different
descriptions, as they relate to property. I readily agree that, in
itself, a tax would be unjust and oppressive that did not fall on the
citizens according to their degree of property and ability to pay it;
were it, therefore, this single article which we are about to tax, I
should think it indispensable that it should operate equally, agreeably
to the principle I have just mentioned. But in order to determine
whether a tax on salt is just or unjust, we must consider it as part of
a system, and judge of the operation of this system as if it was but a
single article; if this is found to be unequal, it is also unjust. Now,
examine the preceding articles, and consider how they affect the rich,
and it will be found that they bear more than a just proportion
according to their ability to pay; by adding this article, we shall
rather equalize the disproportion than increase it, if it is true, as
has been often mentioned, that the poor will contribute more of this tax
than the rich. When we consider the tax as it operates on the different
parts of the United States, dividing the whole into the northern,
middle, and southern districts, it will be found that they contribute
also in proportion to their numbers and ability to pay. If there be any
distinction in this respect, it will be perceived to be in favor of the
southern division, because the species of property there consists of
mouths that consume salt in the same proportion as the whites; but they
have not this property in the middle and northern districts to pay taxes
for. The most important objection is, that the western part of our
country uses more salt than any other; this makes it unequal; but,
considered as a part of a system, the equilibrium is restored, when you
find this almost the only tax they will have to pay. Will they
contribute any thing by consuming imported spirits? Very little. Yet,
this is a principal source of revenue; they will subsist upon what they
procure at home; and will they submit to a direct tax, if they murmur at
so light a one on salt? Will they submit to an excise? If they would, I
trust it is not in the contemplation of gentlemen to propose it.
Mr. WHITE, after some doubts, had made up his mind against the article
being taxed. We ought to pass no law that is unjust or oppressive in its
nature, or which the people may consider as unjust or oppressive; a duty
on salt would be considered in that light by a great number. Our
constituents expect some ease and relief, particularly the poorer sort
of people. It seems to be granted, from all that has been said, that it
will affect them in a manner which no other tax can, though, it is said,
they will not be affected beyond their proportion, as they pay nothing
for the consumption of wine, spirits, &c. because they use none. One
reason which influenced the committee to tax those articles, was to
abolish the use of them altogether, or prevent the excesses they
occasioned. Now will you urge in argument for taxing the poor, that they
already practise that temperance which you desire to bring universally
about? All taxes, it is admitted, are odious, and some merely from
opinion; but if they are odious from opinion, they ought to be carefully
guarded against, especially if the Government depends upon opinion for
support.
Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, they collected eight cents in his State,
and it caused no complaint that he knew of.
The question on imposing six cents on salt was put and carried, as was a
motion for a drawback on salted provisions and fish.
On manufactured tobacco.
Mr. SHERMAN moved six cents, as he thought the duty ought to amount to a
prohibition. This was agreed to.
On snuff, ten cents per pound.
Mr. CARROLL moved to insert window and other glass. A manufacture of
this article was begun in Maryland, and attended with considerable
success; if the Legislature were to grant a small encouragement, it
would be permanently established; the materials were to be found in the
country in sufficient quantities to answer the most extensive demand.
A desultory conversation arose in the committee respecting the propriety
of receiving the motion at this time, when it was agreed to add on all
window and other glass, except black quart bottles, ten per cent. _ad
valorem_.
Mr. CLYMER informed the House of the state of the paper mills in
Pennsylvania; they were so numerous as to be able to supply a very
extensive demand in that and the neighboring States; they annually
produce about 70,000 reams of various kinds, which is sold as cheap as
it can be imported. This manufacture certainly is an important one; and
having grown up under legislative encouragement, it will be wise to
continue it. Thereupon it was agreed to lay an impost of seven and a
half per cent. _ad valorem_ on blank books, writing, printing, and
wrapping paper, and pasteboard; the same, without debate, was laid upon
canes, walking-sticks, whips, clothing ready made, on gold, silver, and
plated ware, and on jewelry and paste work; upon cabinet ware, buttons
of metal, saddles, gloves of leather, all hats of beaver, fur, wool, or
mixture of either, all millinery, castings of iron, or slit or rolled
iron, all leather tanned or tawed, or manufactures thereof, except such
as are otherwise rated.
On every coach, chariot, or other four wheel carriage, and on every
chaise, solo, or other two wheel carriage, or parts thereof, fifteen per
cent. _ad valorem_.
SATURDAY, April 18.
Mr. WHITE, from the Committee of Elections, reported that the committee
had examined the certificates and other credentials of the members
returned to serve in this House, and found them entitled to take their
seats; which report was concurred with.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
state of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair.
On motion of Mr. GOODHUE, anchors at seven and a half per cent. _ad
valorem_, was added.
On motion of Mr. SHERMAN, nutmegs, cinnamon, raisins, figs, currants,
and almonds, were struck out.
Mr. AMES introduced wool cards, with observing that they were
manufactured to the eastward as good and as cheap as the imported ones.
Mr. CLYMER mentioned, that in the State of Pennsylvania, the manufacture
was carried to great perfection, and enough could be furnished to supply
the demand. A duty of fifty cents per dozen was imposed on wool cards.
On wrought tin ware, seven and a half per centum _ad valorem_; on every
quintal of fish, fifty cents; and on every barrel of pickled fish,
seventy-five cents.
Mr. FITZSIMONS moved the following: On all teas imported from China or
India, in ships built in the United States, and belonging wholly to a
citizen or citizens thereof, as follows: on bohea tea, per pound, six
cents; on all souchong and other black teas, ten cents; on superior
green teas, twenty cents; on all other teas, ten cents.
On all teas imported from any other country, or from China or India, in
ships which are not the property of the United States, as follows: on
bohea tea, per pound, ten cents; souchong, and other black teas, fifteen
cents; on superior green teas, thirty cents; on all other green teas,
eighteen cents per pound.
Mr. FITZSIMONS supported the motion, by observing that one effect of the
late glorious revolution was, to deprive the merchants of America of
most of the channels of commerce which they had before pursued. This
circumstance obliged them to search for other sources to employ their
vessels in. It had been discovered that a pretty lucrative trade could
be carried on with the countries in the east; the merchants have gone
largely into it, and it at present gives employment to some thousand
tons of American shipping and seamen; our success has been so great, as
to excite the jealousy of Europe, and nothing is left undone to cramp or
prevent our commercial operations in that quarter. The Legislature of
Pennsylvania, impressed with the importance of the subject, had granted
it aid by discriminating in the manner he proposed to the committee; and
with the like aid from the Government of the United States, the
merchants may no longer fear the machinations of the opulent companies
in Europe, who are unwilling to let us partake of a trade they so long
have had a monopoly of. Already the trade to India has had a very happy
effect in favor of our inhabitants, by reducing commodities brought from
thence to one half of their former price, and yet a sufficient profit is
left to enable those concerned to carry it on with advantage.
Mr. MADISON felt a reluctance in being obliged to state his reasons why
he doubted the policy of the proposed measure. What, said he, is its
object? It is not to add to the revenue, for it will in fact tend to
diminish it, in that proportion which the importation from China lessens
that from other parts; it is not to increase our commerce, for long
voyages are unfriendly to it; it is not to increase the importation of
necessary articles, for India goods are mostly articles of luxury; it is
not to carry off our superfluities, for these articles are paid for
principally, if not altogether, in solid coin. If the trade is
beneficial at all to the United States, it must be in this single point
of view, that the articles can be imported cheaper through that channel
than any other; and, if so, that it is the interest of the people to be
supplied as cheap as possible. There are no collateral good purposes to
claim our attention in this case. It is not in the nature of things that
we should derive any other advantage than the one I have mentioned,
without it is that of raising our India commerce from its weak and
infant state to strength and vigor; to enable it to continue supplies at
a cheaper rate than they could otherwise be obtained.
Mr. GOODHUE replied to Mr. MADISON's observations, respecting the mode
of paying for India goods, by informing the committee that very
considerable quantities of ginseng, naval stores, lumber, and
provisions, were shipped; other articles were sent also, and disposed of
at ports on this side of China, in order to procure the most suitable
cargo; so that we do not pay principally for their commodities in solid
coin, but send off superfluities to a considerable amount, much more
than if we were to procure our teas and nankeens from any part of
Europe.
Mr. MADISON had not made the objection merely because the specie was
exported, but to show that it did not bring in an equivalent, as the
goods were mostly of that kind which are termed luxuries.
Mr. BOUDINOT declared himself a friend to the Indian commerce. He
thought it encouraged the employment of shipping, and increased our
seamen; he knew its advantages to agriculture. The gentleman from
Virginia (Mr. MADISON) supposed but little of our productions were sent
in exchange for India goods; but our beef, pork, flour, and wheat, were
shipped for this purpose, not to China, yet to ports where proper
cargoes were taken in to answer the trade. Encouragement and protection
were necessary to prevent the large companies in Europe from
underselling our merchants, which they would readily do, at considerable
loss, if they could, in consequence, put a stop to our trade. He hoped,
therefore, the committee would not hesitate in adopting the motion.
The motion was adopted accordingly.
On coal per bushel ---- cents.
Mr. BLAND informed the committee, that there were mines opened in
Virginia capable of supplying the whole of the United States, and, if
some restraint was laid on the importation of foreign coal, those mines
might be worked to advantage. He thought it needless to insist upon the
advantages resulting from a colliery, as a supply for culinary and
mechanical purposes, and as a nursery to train up seamen for a navy. He
moved three cents a bushel.
Mr. HARTLEY was willing to admit a moderate duty, but thought three
cents would be a great discouragement to those manufactures which
necessarily consume large quantities of fuel. He moved one cent.
Mr. PARKER said, that a less sum than three cents would not answer the
purpose intended. Coal came from England as ballast, and was sold so
low, as almost to prevent the working of their mines in Virginia. He
hoped, if the committee were disposed to encourage them, they would
proportion the means to the end; a duty of one cent would be void;
nothing under what was moved by his colleague (Mr. BLAND) could answer
the purpose. He hoped, therefore, the committee would agree to three
cents.
On the question, there appeared a majority in favor of three cents.
After which the committee rose, and the House adjourned.
MONDAY, April 20.
ABRAHAM BALDWIN and JAMES JACKSON, from Georgia, appeared and took their
seats.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
state of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair.
The following clause of the bill was agreed to, viz: "On all other
articles, five per cent. on their value at the time and place of
importation, except tin in pigs, tin plates, lead, old pewter, brass,
iron or brass wire, copper in plates, wool, dying woods and dying drugs,
(other than indigo,) raw hides, beaver, and all other furs, and deer
skins."
Mr. FITZSIMONS proposed a drawback of six cents per gallon on all rum
distilled in the United States, exported without the limits of the same.
Mr. MADISON asked if the quantity of rum so exported was very
considerable? He believed it was not; and he would not, for the sake of
encouraging that branch of trade, open a door by which frauds on the
revenue could be committed equal to the whole duty collected.
Mr. FITZSIMONS could not say what quantity of rum was exported in that
way; but he feared, unless a drawback was allowed, it would be a great
injury to the manufacture. At the time the duty of six cents on molasses
was laid, he thought it was understood, the committee would allow a
drawback on the rum exported. There seems to be an apprehension that the
system of drawbacks will operate to the disadvantage of the revenue; but
he believed a mode could be devised to prevent frauds, in this case,
fully as effectually as on the importation. If this was not done, it
would be time enough for gentlemen to oppose it; they would have this
opportunity, because a bill, regulating the manner of collection, he
presumed, would pass at the same time with the one for levying the
duties. If drawbacks were not allowed, it would be a very considerable
restraint on commerce, particularly on the India trade, which he
believed was likely to be considerably extended. He was sorry the
gentlemen from Massachusetts were not there in their places,[20] to give
information to the committee respecting the quantity exported from that
State; from Pennsylvania the quantity was but small.
Mr. FITZSIMONS contended for drawbacks generally, but on this article it
was particular injustice to omit it. The manufacture of rum was of
considerable importance in the Eastern States, but it would not be able
to stand a successful competition with West India rum in foreign
countries, while loaded with a duty of six cents per gallon. The tax on
molasses was that sum, and he looked upon it to be the same thing as if
it had been paid on the rum at distillation; one gallon of the former
yielding but one of the latter.
Mr. MADISON thought there were very few cases in which drawbacks ought
to be allowed, perhaps none but what related to the East India trade.
The small proportion of distilled rum exported did not justify so great
a risk; but of the small proportion which went abroad, the greatest part
went to the coast of Africa. He feared this trade was inconsistent with
the good of mankind, and ought to be reprobated instead of encouraged.
Mr. BLAND said the committee had spent several days in encouraging
manufactures, by selecting articles for revenue, and were now extending
their views to the encouragement of commerce. He thought there was some
impropriety in combining the clause proposed in this part of the bill,
and even doubted if it was in order; therefore would vote against it.
The question was put on the motion for a drawback on country rum, and
lost.
Mr. FITZSIMONS had another clause upon the same subject, only on more
general principles; he hoped gentlemen would consider well before they
doomed it to share the fate of the former. It was to this purpose: that
all the duties paid, or secured to be paid, upon goods imported, shall
be returned or discharged upon such of the said goods, as shall within
---- months be exported to any country without the limits of the United
States, except so much as shall be necessary to defray the expense that
may have accrued by the entry and the safe keeping thereof. The subjects
of duties and drawbacks are so connected by their nature, that he did
not see how they were to be separated. Gentlemen did not imagine that
what had been done tended to favor commerce; it certainly did not. Every
impost which is paid is a disadvantage to the person concerned in trade,
and nothing but necessity could induce a submission to it. The interest
of the landholder is undoubtedly blended with the commercial interest;
if the latter receive an injury, the former will have to sustain his
proportion of it; if drawbacks are not allowed, the operations of trade
will be considerably shackled; merchants will be obliged, in the first
instance, to send their cargoes to the place of consumption, and lose
the advantage of a circuitous freight, which alone is a profit of no
small magnitude.
Mr. HARTLEY expressed his sorrow for the last decision of the committee;
he wished the question had not been put in the absence of the gentlemen
from Massachusetts, who were on a business in some degree of a public
nature. The present motion was only just brought in; he submitted,
therefore, to the committee, if it were not best to pass it over for the
present, in order to give time for consideration.
TUESDAY, April 21.
Mr. HARTLEY asked and obtained leave of absence.
WEDNESDAY, April 22.
PETER SYLVESTER, from New York, appeared and took his seat.
THURSDAY, April 23.
JOHN HATHORN, from New York, appeared and took his seat.
FRIDAY, April 24.
Mr. BOUDINOT reported, from the committee appointed to attend with a
committee from the Senate, to receive the President of the United
States, at the place of his embarkation from New Jersey, that the
committee did, according to order, together with a committee from the
Senate, attend at Elizabethtown, in New Jersey, on the 23d instant, at
which place the two committees met the President, and thence embarked
for this city, where they arrived about three o'clock in the afternoon
of the same day, and conducted him to the house appointed for his
residence.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Vice President of
the United States, enclosing a resolution of the Senate, appointing a
committee to consider and report what style or titles it will be proper
to annex to the office of President and Vice President of the United
States, if any other than those given in the constitution; also to
consider of the time, place, and manner in which, and the person by
whom, the oath prescribed by the constitution, shall be administered to
the President, and to confer thereon with such committee as this House
should appoint for that purpose; whereupon,
_Ordered_, That a committee, to consist of five members, be appointed
for the purpose expressed in the resolution of the Senate.
The members elected were Messrs. BENSON, AMES, MADISON, CARROLL, and
SHERMAN.
_Duties on Imports._
The House then proceeded to consider the resolutions reported by the
Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.
Mr. BOUDINOT complained that the articles were generally taxed too high,
not too high for the article to bear, but too high for the due
collection of the revenue. Every thing we tax should be considered as it
relates to the interest of the importer, as well as other circumstances;
now, if it is discovered that the duties are so great as to make it a
beneficial trade to the merchant to run his goods, he will do so, and
injure the revenue.
Mr. MADISON was sensible that high duties had a tendency to promote
smuggling, and in case those kinds of frauds were successfully practised
the revenue must be diminished; yet he believed the sum proposed on
spirits was not so high as to produce those effects to any considerable
degree. If any article is capable of paying a heavy duty, it is this; if
the duty on any article is capable of being collected with certainty, it
is this; if a duty on any article is consonant with the sentiment of the
people of America, it is this; why then should not the article be made
as tributary as possible to the wants of Government? But, besides these
favorable circumstances, I think the combination of the merchants will
come in aid of the law; the people will also lend their aid. These
circumstances would do much toward insuring the due collection of the
revenue.
Mr. JACKSON seconded Mr. BOUDINOT's motion for reducing the duties,
because he was well convinced they were too high even to be well
collected, unless we establish custom-houses every ten or twelve miles,
like watch-towers, along the sea-coast. When trade is so unproductive,
the Legislature ought to be careful how they make it more worth a man's
while to live by committing frauds upon the revenue than by practising
honest commerce.
There is another consideration which particularly regarded the Georgia
trade. That country, abounding with lumber of the most luxurious growth,
could only exchange it for rum; and a very considerable commerce grew
out of this intercourse favorable to Georgia. This would be affected by
the imposition of heavy duties; but commercial considerations, we shall
be told, form only a secondary object in this business. There is another
proposition in which he acquiesced; it would be more convenient, and
more to the honor of the House, to make their first essay with low
duties; because, if they persisted in laying them high, they would be
compelled to an inglorious retreat, and the Government would be
insulted. In the State he represented, it was next to impossible to
collect the revenue, the country was so intersected with navigable
creeks and rivers, if the people were disposed to evade the payment of
it; and there was no more certain way to produce this disposition than
by making it their interest to defraud you.
Mr. BOUDINOT was not ashamed to confess that he wanted the advantages of
commercial knowledge on a question where the principles of trade were
interwoven; but he opposed high duties on a conviction in his own mind
that they could not be collected. He repeated some few of his former
arguments to show why he held this opinion; but it was not the
particular article of rum that he was opposed to, it was the high scale
on which the duties were laid generally, and that only from an idea that
greater revenue might be obtained from less duties.
Mr. TUCKER wished the duties to be lowered, and proposed to the
committee to strike off seven cents from the fifteen; by varying his
motion in this manner, he expected the sense of the House could be taken
on his proposition first, notwithstanding the rule that "the question
shall be put on the highest sum first." He joined in the opinion that
high duties were productive of smuggling; that notwithstanding the
powers and vigilance of custom-house officers, and the whole Executive,
contraband trade is carried on in every nation where the duties are so
high; the facility with which it could be done in America ought to show
a prudent Legislature the degree of probability; unless this can be
guarded against, what will the law avail? It can avail nothing. Besides,
the higher the duty is laid, the more you expose the officer to the
temptation of being corrupted; when that is done, the revenue will be
very unproductive.
Mr. BLAND would second the gentleman last up, but thought it was not in
order to have the question taken first on the lowest sum.
Mr. FITZSIMONS observed to the House, that the decision of the present
question, in his mind, involved some very important alterations in the
present measure; the consequences resulting from which ought to be well
considered. In order, therefore, to gain time for this purpose, he would
move an adjournment; whereupon the House adjourned.
SATURDAY, April 25.
Mr. BENSON, from the committee appointed to consider of the time, place,
and manner in which, and of the person by whom the oath prescribed by
the constitution shall be administered to the President of the United
States, and to confer with a committee of the Senate for the purpose,
reported as followeth:
That the President hath been pleased to signify to them
that any time or place which both Houses may think proper
to appoint, and any manner which shall appear most eligible
to them, will be acceptable to him: that requisite
preparations cannot probably be made before Thursday next:
that the President be on that day formally received by both
Houses in the Senate Chamber: that the Representatives'
Chamber being capable of receiving the greater number of
persons, that therefore the President do take the oath in
that place, and in the presence of both Houses: that after
the formal reception of the President in the Senate
Chamber, he be attended by both Houses to the
Representatives' Chamber, and that the oath be administered
by the Chancellor of this State.
The committee further report it as their opinion, that it
will be proper that a committee of both Houses be appointed
to take order for further conducting the ceremonial.
The said report was twice read; and, on the question put thereupon,
agreed to by the House.
_Ordered_, That Messrs. BENSON, AMES, and CARROLL be a committee on the
part of this House, pursuant to the said report.
MONDAY, April 27.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Vice President of
the United States, enclosing certain proceedings of the Senate, touching
the ceremonial of the formal reception of the President of the United
States, by both Houses, which were read, and ordered to lie on the
table.
Mr. BENSON, from the committee of both Houses, appointed to take order
for conducting the ceremonial of the formal reception of the President
of the United States, reported as followeth:
"That it appears to the committee more eligible that the
oath should be administered to the President in the outer
gallery adjoining the Senate Chamber, than in the
Representatives' Chamber, and therefore submit to the
respective Houses the propriety of authorizing their
committees to take order as to the place where the oath
shall be administered to the President, the resolutions of
Saturday, assigning the Representatives' Chamber as the
place, notwithstanding."
The said report being twice read,
_Resolved_, That this House doth concur in the said report,
and authorize the committee to take order for the change of
place thereby proposed.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Vice President of
the United States, enclosing two orders of the Senate, one of the 13th
instant, appointing a committee to confer with any committee to be
appointed on the part of this House, respecting the future disposition
of the papers, &c. in the office of the late Secretary of the United
States: the other of the 27th instant, for the attendance of both
Houses, with the President of the United States, after the oath shall be
administered to him, to hear divine service at St. Paul's Chapel: which
was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
TUESDAY, April 28.
Mr. RICHARD BLAND LEE, from the committee to whom was recommitted the
report respecting the mode of communicating papers, bills, and messages,
between the two Houses, reported as followth:
"When a message shall be sent from the Senate to the House
of Representatives, it shall be announced at the door of
the House by the doorkeeper, and shall be respectfully
communicated to the Chair, by the person by whom it may be
sent.
"The same ceremony shall be observed when a message shall
be sent from the House of Representatives to the Senate.
"Messages shall be sent by such persons as a sense of
propriety in each House may determine to be proper."
The said report was twice read, and, on the question put thereupon,
agreed to by the House.
A letter from Matthias Ogden, of New Jersey, referring to sundry
petitions from citizens of that State, complaining of illegality in the
late election of Representatives for that State to this House was read
and ordered to lie on the table.
The order of the Senate of the 13th instant was read, appointing a
committee to confer with any committee to be appointed on the part of
this House, respecting the future disposition of the papers in the
office of the late Secretary of the United States; whereupon
_Ordered_, That Messrs. TRUMBULL, CADWALADER, and JACKSON, be a
committee for that purpose.
WEDNESDAY, April 29.
The House proceeded to consider the report from the Committee of
Elections (which lay on the table) on the petition of David Ramsay, of
the State of South Carolina, suggesting that William Smith, returned a
member of this House, as elected within that State, was, at the time of
his election, ineligible; and the said report being amended to read as
followeth:
That in this case it will be sufficient in the first
instance, that a committee take such proofs as can be
obtained in this city respecting the facts stated in the
petition, and report the same to the House--That Mr. Smith
be permitted to be present from time to time when such
proofs are taken, to examine the witnesses, and to offer
counter-proofs, which shall also be received by the
committee, and reported to the House--That if the proofs so
to be reported shall be declared by the House insufficient
to verify the material facts stated in the petition, or
such other facts as the House shall deem proper to be
inquired into, it will then be necessary for the House to
direct a further inquiry, and especially the procuring
whatever additional testimony may be supposed to be in
South Carolina, as the case may require--That all questions
arising on the proofs be decided by the House, without any
previous opinion thereon reported by a committee.
_Resolved_, That this House doth agree to the said report,
and that it be an instruction to the Committee of Elections
to proceed accordingly.
On motion,
_Ordered_, That a committee be appointed to prepare and report an
estimate of the supplies requisite for the present year, and of the net
produce of the impost as agreed to by the House, and that Messrs. GERRY,
SMITH, (of Maryland,) and PARKER, be of the said committee.
The House proceeded to consider the following resolution of the Senate,
to wit:
"In Senate, April 27.
"_Resolved_, That after the oath shall have been
administered to the President, he, attended by the Vice
President, and the members of the Senate and House of
Representatives, proceed to St. Paul's Chapel to hear
divine service, to be performed by the Chaplains to
Congress already appointed:" Whereupon,
_Resolved_, That this House doth concur with the Senate in
the said resolution: amended to read as followeth, to wit:
"That after the oath shall have been administered to the
President, the Vice President and members of the Senate,
the Speaker and members of the House of Representatives,
will accompany him to St. Paul's Chapel, to hear divine
service performed by the Chaplains of Congress."
_Ordered_, That the Clerk of this House do carry the said resolution to
the Senate, and desire their concurrence.--Adjourned.
THURSDAY, April 30.
JONATHAN GROUT, from Massachusetts, appeared and took his seat.
This being the day on which the President of the United States was
inaugurated, no other business, of course, was attended to. The
President's address to both Houses appears in the proceedings of the
Senate.[21]
FRIDAY, May 1.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a copy of the speech of the President
of the United States, to both Houses of Congress, delivered yesterday in
the Senate Chamber, immediately after his inauguration, which being
read,
On motion,
_Resolved_, That the said speech be committed to a
Committee of the whole House.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.
PAGE in the chair. And after adopting the following resolution, the
committee rose, and reported it to the House, which agreed to it.
_Resolved_, That it is the opinion of this committee, that
an address to the President ought to be prepared,
expressing the congratulations of the House of
Representatives, on the distinguished proof given him of
the affection and confidence of his fellow-citizens, by the
unanimous suffrage which has appointed him to the high
station which he fills; the approbation felt by the House
of the patriotic sentiments and enlightened policy
recommended by his speech; and assuring him of their
disposition to concur in giving effect to every measure
which may tend to secure the liberties, promote the
harmony, and advance the happiness and prosperity of their
country.
_Ordered_, That a committee to consist of five members be appointed to
prepare an address pursuant to the said resolution. The members elected
Messrs. MADISON, CLYMER, SHERMAN, GALE, and BENSON.
A motion was made that the House do come to the following resolution:
_Resolved_, That ---- per annum be the compensation to be
allowed to the President of the United States, during the
term for which he is to be elected.
The said resolution being read, was committed to a Committee of the
whole House.
The House then proceeded by ballot to the appointment of a Chaplain to
Congress on the part of this House. Upon examining the ballots, it
appeared that the Rev. WILLIAM LINN was elected.
SAMUEL LIVERMORE, from New Hampshire, appeared and took his seat.
TUESDAY, May 5.
Mr. BENSON, from the committee appointed to consider of, and report what
style or titles it will be proper to annex to the office of President
and Vice President of the United States, if any other than those given
in the Constitution, and to confer with a committee of the Senate
appointed for the same purpose, reported as followeth:
"That it is not proper to annex any style or title to the respective
styles or titles of office expressed in the Constitution."
And the said report being twice read at the Clerk's table, was, on the
question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.
_Ordered_, that the Clerk of this House do acquaint the Senate
therewith.
Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to prepare an address on the
part of this House to the President of the United States, in answer to
his speech to both Houses of Congress, reported as followeth:
_The Address of the House of Representatives to George
Washington, President of the United States._
SIR: The Representatives of the People of the United States
present their congratulations on the event by which your
fellow-citizens have attested the pre-eminence of your
merit. You have long held the first place in their esteem.
You have often received tokens of their affection. You now
possess the only proof that remained of their gratitude for
your services, of their reverence for your wisdom, and of
their confidence in your virtues. You enjoy the highest,
because the truest honor, of being the First Magistrate, by
the unanimous choice of the freest people on the face of
the earth.
We well know the anxieties with which you must have obeyed
a summons from the repose reserved for your declining
years, into public scenes, of which you had taken your
leave for ever. But the obedience was due to the occasion.
It is already applauded by the universal joy which welcomes
you to your station. And we cannot doubt that it will be
rewarded with all the satisfaction with which an ardent
love for your fellow-citizens must review successful
efforts to promote their happiness.
This anticipation is not justified merely by the past
experience of your signal services. It is particularly
suggested by the pious impressions under which you mean to
commence your administration, and the enlightened maxims by
which you mean to conduct it. We feel with you the
strongest obligations to adore the invisible hand which has
led the American people through so many difficulties, to
cherish a conscious responsibility for the destiny of
republican liberty; and to seek the only sure means of
preserving and recommending the precious deposit in a
system of legislation founded on the principles of an
honest policy, and directed by the spirit of a diffusive
patriotism.
The question arising out of the fifth article of the
Constitution will receive all the attention demanded by its
importance; and will, we trust, be decided, under the
influence of all the considerations to which you allude.
In forming the pecuniary provisions for the Executive
Department, we shall not lose sight of a wish resulting
from motives which give it a peculiar claim to our regard.
Your resolution, in a moment critical to the liberties of
your country, to renounce all personal emolument, was among
the many presages of your patriotic services, which have
been amply fulfilled; and your scrupulous adherence now to
the law then imposed on yourself, cannot fail to
demonstrate the purity, whilst it increases the lustre of a
character which has so many titles to admiration.
Such are the sentiments which we have thought fit to
address to you. They flow from our own hearts, and we
verily believe that, among the millions we represent,
there is not a virtuous citizen whose heart will disown
them.
All that remains is, that we join in your fervent
supplications for the blessings of heaven on our country;
and that we add our own for the choicest of these blessings
on the most beloved of our citizens.
Said address was committed to a Committee of the Whole; and the House
immediately resolved itself into a committee, Mr. PAGE in the chair. The
committee proposing no amendment thereto, rose and reported the address,
and the House agreed to it, and resolved that the Speaker, attended by
the members of this House, do present the said address to the President.
_Ordered_, That Messrs. SINNICKSON, COLES, and SMITH (of South
Carolina), be a committee to wait on the President to know when it will
be convenient for him to receive the same.
Mr. CLYMER, from the committee appointed for the purpose, reported a
bill for laying a duty on goods, wares, and merchandise, imported into
the United States, which passed its first reading.
_Amendment of the Constitution._
[Mr. BLAND presented the application of the Legislature of
Virginia, to have a convention called of deputies from all
the States, to consider the defects of the Constitution and
report amendments; and moved to refer the application to
the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.]
Mr. BOUDINOT.--According to the terms of the Constitution, the business
cannot be taken up until a certain number of States have concurred in
similar applications; certainly the House is disposed to pay a proper
attention to the application of so respectable a State as Virginia, but
if it is a business which we cannot interfere with in a constitutional
manner, we had better let it remain on the files of the House until the
proper number of applications come forward.
Mr. BLAND thought there could be no impropriety in referring any subject
to a committee; but surely this deserved the serious and solemn
consideration of Congress. He hoped no gentleman would oppose the
compliment of referring it to a Committee of the Whole; beside, it would
be a guide to the deliberations of the committee on the subject of
amendments, which would shortly come before the House.
Mr. MADISON said, he had no doubt but the House was inclined to treat
the present application with respect, but he doubted the propriety of
committing it, because it would seem to imply that the House had a right
to deliberate upon the subject. This, he believed, was not the case
until two-thirds of the State Legislatures concurred in such
application, and then it is out of the power of Congress to decline
complying, the words of the Constitution being express and positive
relative to the agency Congress may have in case of applications of this
nature. "The Congress, wherever two-thirds of both Houses shall deem it
necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution; or, on the
application of the Legislatures of two-thirds of the several States,
shall call a convention for proposing amendments." From hence it must
appear that Congress have no deliberative power on this occasion. The
most respectful and constitutional mode of performing our duty will be,
to let it be entered on the minutes, and remain upon the files of the
House until similar applications come to hand from two-thirds of the
States.
Mr. BOUDINOT hoped the gentleman who desired the commitment of the
application would not suppose him wanting in respect to the State of
Virginia. He entertained the most profound respect for her--but it was
on a principle of respect to order and propriety that he opposed the
commitment; enough had been said to convince gentlemen that it was
improper to commit--for what purpose can it be done? what can the
committee report? The application is to call a new convention. Now, in
this case, there is nothing left for us to do, but to call one when
two-thirds of the State Legislatures apply for that purpose. He hoped
the gentleman would withdraw his motion for commitment.
Mr. BLAND.--The application now before the committee contains a number
of reasons why it is necessary to call a convention. By the fifth
article of the Constitution, Congress are obliged to order this
convention when two-thirds of the Legislatures apply for it; but how can
these reasons be properly weighed, unless it be done in committee?
Therefore, I hope the House will agree to refer it.
Mr. HUNTINGTON thought it proper to let the application remain on the
table, it can be called up with others when enough are presented to make
two-thirds of the whole States. There would be an evident impropriety in
committing, because it would argue a right in the House to deliberate,
and, consequently, a power to procrastinate the measure applied for.
Mr. TUCKER thought it not right to disregard the application of any
State, and inferred, that the House had a right to consider every
application that was made; if two-thirds had not applied, the subject
might be taken into consideration, but if two-thirds had applied, it
precluded deliberation on the part of the House. He hoped the present
application would be properly noticed.
Mr. GERRY.--The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) told us yesterday,
that he meant to move the consideration of amendments on the fourth
Monday of this month; he did not make such motion then, and may be
prevented by accident, or some other cause, from carrying his intention
into execution when the time he mentioned shall arrive. I think the
subject however is introduced to the House, and, perhaps, it may consist
with order to let the present application lie on the table until the
business is taken up generally.
Mr. PAGE thought it the best way to enter the application at large upon
the Journals, and do the same by all that came in, until sufficient were
made to obtain their object, and let the original be deposited in the
archives of Congress. He deemed this the proper mode of disposing of it,
and what is in itself proper can never be construed into disrespect.
Mr. BLAND acquiesced in this disposal of the application. Whereupon it
was ordered to be entered at length on the Journals, and the original to
be placed on the files of Congress.
_Duties on Tonnage._
The House then resumed the consideration of the Report of the Committee
of the Whole on the state of the Union, in relation to the duty on
tonnage.
Mr. JACKSON (from Georgia) moved to lower the tonnage duty from thirty
cents, as it stood in the report of the Committee on ships of nations in
alliance, and to insert twenty cents, with a view of reducing the
tonnage on the vessels of Powers not in alliance. In laying a higher
duty on foreign tonnage than on our own, I presume, said he, the
Legislature have three things in contemplation: 1st, The encouragement
of American shipping; 2ndly, Raising a revenue; and 3rdly, The support
of light-houses and beacons for the purposes of navigation. Now, for the
first object, namely, the encouragement of American shipping, I judge
twenty cents will be sufficient, the duty on our own being only six
cents; but if twenty cents are laid in this case, I conclude that a
higher rate will be imposed upon the vessels of nations not in alliance.
As these form the principal part of the foreign navigation, the duty
will be adequate to the end proposed. I take it, the idea of revenue
from this source is not much relied upon by the House; and surely twenty
cents is enough to answer all the purposes of erecting and supporting
the necessary light-houses. On a calculation of what will be paid in
Georgia, I find a sufficiency for these purposes; and I make no doubt
but enough will be collected in every State from this duty. The tonnage
employed in Georgia is about twenty thousand tons, fourteen thousand
tons are foreign; the duty on this quantity will amount to £466 13s. 4d.
Georgia currency. I do not take in the six cents upon American vessels,
yet this sum appears to be as much as can possibly be wanted for the
purpose of improving our navigation.
I shall just mention to the House one observation more, to show that the
produce of the Southern States cannot bear a high tonnage duty. The
value of rice, tobacco, and indigo has fallen so much in foreign
markets, that they are no longer worth the exportation. The merchants
complain that they lose by those remittances; and they have now got into
the practice of sending off specie; forty thousand dollars have been
sent in one vessel. This is a daily practice, and we shall shortly have
no specie left to pay our debts. The difficulty will be increased, as
no money will remain to pay for the duties imposed on the articles
imported. I hope the government will not insist upon our walking before
we are able to creep, or compel us to make bricks without straw. These
are my sentiments on the present question; if they have weight, the
House will agree with me in reducing the duty; but if the House persist
in continuing the high rates agreed to in committee, I shall content
myself with having done my duty by warning them of the danger.
Mr. AMES.--I hope the reduction moved for by the gentleman who has just
sat down will not be agreed to; for I trust the House is not satisfied
with the reasons offered in its support. A great deal has been now said
respecting the jealousy entertained of the advantages given by this
preference to some States; a great deal was also said before the
committee adopted the measure. I do not think this doctrine of jealousy
is natural to us. I know it has been cultivated by the British, and
disseminated through the United States; they had their particular views
in exciting such ideas; but I do not believe, that because we have
various we have opposite interests. Upon examination there will be found
but few of our interests that clash with each other so much as to admit
a well grounded jealousy. Nature has so arranged our circumstances, that
the people of the several States pursue various employments which
support each other. If one end of the continent is employed in
manufactures and commerce, the other is attentive to agriculture; so far
are they, therefore, from being rivals, that, both in a natural and
political sense, they mutually are necessary and beneficial to each
other's interests. I wish gentlemen, before they insist upon this
jealousy, would point out the causes of its existence. So far from this
being the case, I believe the individual interest of each part is
compatible with the general interest; and that the public opinion is the
same, is clearly demonstrated by the attachment professed by every part
to remain in union--it is acknowledged, that on this principle our
existence as a nation depends.
This being the case, I do not listen with any great degree of concern to
arguments founded on that cause. So far from surveying the affluence or
ease of my Southern brethren with the jaundiced eye of jealousy, I
contemplate their prosperity with ineffable satisfaction. I look with an
equal eye upon the success of every State through the whole extent of
United America. I wish their interests to be equally consulted; and if I
may judge of the feelings of the people, by those of their
representatives on this floor, I may venture to say there was never less
reason to apprehend discord or envy than at this time. I believe the
fact is so, because I feel it. I appeal with confidence to the gentlemen
round me, whether they have not found the disposition of those who were
suspected most to favor navigation, ready to concede what was asked for
the encouragement of every other interest? Whether a like conciliatory
conduct has not been observed by the advocates of manufactures? I ask
gentlemen, whether the language they have heard from the several parts
of this House has not been much more congenial to their sentiments than
they expected, and the measures pursued more coincident to their
feelings than what they looked for? I believe, at the moment I am making
this observation, the breasts of gentlemen beat in concert with it; I am
sure my feelings accord most cordially in the sentiment.
I believe the encouragement of our navigation is looked upon to be
indispensably necessary; its importance has never been denied. Now, I
ask if gentlemen are inclined to support and extend our navigation,
whether they are not willing to proportion the mean to the end, and
adopt measures tending to increase the quantity of American shipping? It
has been often justly remarked, that the Constitution, under which we
deliberate, originated in commercial necessity. The mercantile part of
our fellow-citizens, who are the firm friends to an equal and energetic
government, hope the improvement of our navigation may obtain the
attention of Congress; it is but justice that it be early attended to,
and it will give general satisfaction to find it considered as an
important object by the General Government. The most liberal of the
friends of American commerce only wish for such regulations as may put
our navigation on a footing with foreigners. If other nations have
restricted our navigation by regulations or charges, we must restrict
them by a tonnage, or some other duty, so as to restore an equality; but
this will not be found to be the case in the present instance. The
moderate and inconsiderable duty of thirty cents on foreigners in
treaty, and fifty cents on others not in treaty, will not enable our
vessels to go abroad with as much advantage as foreigners can come here;
so that the proposed encouragement may perhaps fall short of procuring
us a maritime strength equal to our national security.
The observations of gentlemen tending to show that one end of the
continent will suffer more by the regulation contemplated by the House
than the other, are, I conceive, not well founded. The price of freight
will equalize itself. If the people of Carolina or Georgia pay a high
freight in consequence of the tonnage duty, the State of Massachusetts
must pay the same, or her vessels will go to the southward in search of
freight, so that the Eastern States have no peculiar interest in the
measure. It has been suggested, that because Massachusetts has foreign
vessels in her employ, she cannot transport produce for
others--Massachusetts, by reason of that influence which Britain has, is
obliged to receive some of her supplies in foreign bottoms, but this is
only a proof that the evil requires a remedy. I might here easily draw a
picture of the distress to which the Eastern country is subjected for
want of a protecting hand: her shipwrights are glad to work for two
shillings and sixpence a day, or less, and less will not maintain them
and their families. Their lumber is of no value, it lies rotting in the
forests, for want of encouragement to frame it into ships; the other
artisans are clamorous for employment, and without a speedy relief they
will have to desert the country. I believe if this relief is extended to
them, it will give a spring to their industry, and a little time will
render them serviceable to their fellow-citizens in the South. They will
find markets for their tobacco, which is now rotting, and their valuable
productions will be transported to all parts of the globe. From these
circumstances, I am led to beg gentlemen to consider, that the
improvement and extension of our navigation is one of the most important
objects that can come before the Legislature; that there are abundant
proofs that a regulation in favor of American shipping is absolutely
necessary to restore them to an equality with foreigners; and if they
are convinced with me of its importance and necessity, they will not
think the sums agreed to in committee too high for the purpose of
protecting the navigation of the United States.
Mr. BURKE.--Something has been said relative to a jealousy subsisting in
the Southern States respecting the navigation interest; I shall,
therefore, make an observation or two on that subject. So far as my own
knowledge of that country goes, I believe the citizens look with
indignation at the power which foreigners have over their commerce. So
far from being jealous of the Eastern States, they look forward to some
future day when their navigation will be secured to that part of the
Union. They know that it possesses superior maritime advantages, and
expect they will hereafter afford security to them. They know, that from
the spirit and industry of the people of New England, they may derive
commercial and agricultural benefits. This is also my own judgment on
the point. I know they cannot now supply us with vessels to transport
our produce, but I hope the time will shortly come when they will have
the ability; in the mean time, when I consider how much the Southern
staples are fallen in price, and the great debts due in that country, I
must say, that I fear a heavy tonnage will be attended with very
dangerous consequences. There are very few foreigners but British come
among us, and a high duty laid upon their ships will fall severely upon
the planters. The Southern people are willing to render any assistance
to increase the maritime importance of the Eastern States, as soon as
they are able; if, therefore, a distant period is fixed for the
commencement of the high duties, I shall be in favor of them; but if
they are to take place immediately, I fear they will do a great deal of
injury in the present deranged and calamitous situation of our country.
Mr. GOODHUE was glad to hear from the several parts of the House, that
there was a disposition to give a preference to American shipping. This
principle being fixed, it only remained for the House to ascertain the
proper degree of encouragement to be given; the rate agreed to in the
committee was not more than good policy required. The gentleman from
Georgia fears that the people of his State will suffer for want of
vessels, or pay a higher freight than their neighbors; but a high duty
is not contended for in the first instance, it is only such a degree of
encouragement as will enable us to enter into a competition with
foreigners in our own carrying trade. The same gentleman has said,
Massachusetts has not vessels enough for her own commerce, and,
therefore, cannot furnish any for others; although Massachusetts employs
7 or 8,000 tons of foreign shipping; yet it is supposed she supplies the
other States with 30,000 tons. The circumstance of 5,000 hogsheads of
tobacco lying to rot for want of vessels, when some thousand tons of
ours are idle for want of employment, does not prove the want of
shipping, so much as that the price of the article is too high for a
foreign market. If the produce is held so high as not to bear the
expense of transportation, the merchants who import will be obliged to
send off money in payment. In order to remedy these inconveniences in
future, it will be necessary to hold out sufficient encouragement for
the construction of vessels. Perhaps it may be good policy to allow a
moderate tonnage duty at this time, to be increased hereafter.
Mr. MADISON.--I believe every gentleman who hears the observations from
the different quarters of this House, discovers great reason for every
friend of the United States to congratulate himself upon the evident
disposition which has been displayed to conduct our business with
harmony and concert.
We have evinced a disposition different from what was expected to arise
from the different interests of the several parts of the Union. I am
persuaded, that less contrariety of sentiment has taken place than was
supposed by gentlemen, who did not choose to magnify the causes of
variance; every thing we have hitherto done, tends to make this evident.
The importance of the Union is justly estimated by all its parts; this
being founded upon a perfect accordance of interest, it may become
perpetual. I know that the point before us has often been selected as a
proof that there was an incompatibility of interest in the United
States. On this opinion I beg leave to remark, that the difference in
point of capacity in the several States to build ships, and furnish
seamen, is much less than has generally been supposed. From the
extremity of the Northern States until we reach South Carolina,
materials of all sorts for ship-building can be obtained in abundance
from the bounty of nature; even Georgia abounds with materials of
superior quality; although their population disqualifies them for
ship-building at present, yet their advantages are such as to enable
them in a short time to rival the most prosperous State. In the next
place, I may remark, that so far as the encouragement of our own
shipping will be given at the expense of the people of the United
States, it will diffuse and equalize its operations in every part. The
ships belonging to one place will, like the people, seek employment in
another where better wages are obtained, and this, in its operations,
will level any inequalities supposed to arise from legislative
interference.
WEDNESDAY, May 6.
JOHN VINING, from Delaware, appeared and took his seat.
The bill for laying a duty on goods, wares, and merchandises imported
into the United States, was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.
On motion of Mr. SHERMAN, the House entered upon the consideration of
the amendments of the Senate to the bill for regulating the time and
manner of administering certain oaths.
The following amendments being before them, to wit:
"That the members of the several State Legislatures, and
all executive and judicial officers of the several States,
who have been heretofore chosen or appointed, or who shall
be chosen or appointed before the first day of August next,
and who shall then be in office, shall, within one month
thereafter, take the same oath or affirmation, except where
they shall have taken it before; which may be administered
by any person authorized by the law of the State in which
such office shall be holden to administer oaths. And the
members of the several State Legislatures, and all
executive and judicial officers of the several States, who
shall be chosen or appointed after the said first day of
August, shall, before they proceed to execute the duties of
their respective offices, take the foregoing oath or
affirmation, which shall be administered by the person or
persons who by the law of the State shall be authorized to
administer the oath of office; and the person or persons so
administering the oath hereby required to be taken shall
cause a record or certificate thereof to be made, in the
same manner as, by the law of the State, he or they shall
be directed to record or certify the oath of office."
Mr. GERRY said, he did not discover what part of the constitution gave
to Congress the power of making this provision, except so much of it as
respects the form of the oath; it is not expressly given by any clause
of the constitution; and if it does exist, must arise from the sweeping
clause, as it is frequently termed, in the eighth section of the first
article of the constitution, which authorizes Congress "to make all laws
which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the
foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in
the Government of the United States, or in any department or office
thereof." To this clause there seems to be no limitation, so far as it
applies to the extension of the powers vested by the constitution; but
even this clause gives no legislative authority to Congress to carry
into effect any power not expressly vested by the constitution. In the
constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, provision is made,
that the members of the Legislatures of the several States, and all
executive and judicial officers thereof, shall be bound by oath to
support the constitution. But there is no provision for empowering the
Government of the United States, or any officer or department thereof,
to pass a law obligatory on the members of the Legislatures of the
several States, and other officers thereof, to take this oath. This is
made their duty already by the constitution, and no such law of Congress
can add force to the obligation; but, on the other hand, if it is
admitted that such a law is necessary, it tends to weaken the
constitution which requires such aid; neither is any law, other than to
prescribe the form of the oath, necessary or proper to carry this part
of the constitution into effect; for the oath required by the
constitution being a necessary qualification for the State officers
mentioned, cannot be dispensed with by any authority whatever other than
the people, and the judicial power of the United States, extending to
all cases arising in law or equity under this constitution. The Judges
of the United States, who are bound to support the constitution, may, in
all cases within their jurisdiction, annul the official acts of State
officers, and even the acts of the members of the State Legislatures, if
such members and officers were disqualified to do or pass such acts, by
neglecting or refusing to take this oath. He concluded his observations,
by submitting to the House the propriety of appointing a Committee of
Conference, to state to the Senate the doubts of the House upon this
subject.
Mr. BLAND had no doubt respecting the powers of Congress on this
subject. The evident meaning of the words of the constitution implied,
that Congress should have the power to pass a law, directing the time
and manner of taking the oath prescribed for supporting the
constitution. There can be no hesitation respecting the power to direct
their own officers, and the constituent parts of Congress; besides, if
the State Legislatures were to be left to arrange and direct this
business, they would pass different laws, and the officers might be
bound in different degrees to support the constitution. He not only
thought Congress had the power to do what was proposed by the Senate,
but he judged it expedient also, and therefore should agree to the
amendment.
Mr. JACKSON.--I believe this House, and the other branch of the
Legislature, have the power, by the constitution, to pass a law,
obliging the officers of the State Governments to take the oath required
by the constitution that their States have adopted, and which has become
the supreme law of the land. I believe the general opinion of the House
inclines to favor this sentiment. It then only remains to examine the
measure on the principle of policy. Here I must give my opinion. I
believe, sir, that it is not time to bring it forward, that it is not
expedient at present, because some jealousies exist respecting the
jurisdiction of the Federal and State Governments. The States had better
be left to regulate this matter among themselves, for an oath that is
not voluntary is seldom held sacred. Compelling people to swear to
support the constitution, will be like the attempts of Britain, during
the late revolution, to secure the fidelity of those who fell within the
influence of her arms, and, like those attempts, they will be
frustrated; the moment the party could get from under her wings, the
oath of allegiance was disregarded. If the State officers will not
willingly pay this testimony of their attachment to the constitution,
what is extorted from them against their inclination is not much to be
relied on. Besides, it argues a jealousy in the National Government,
which can have no foundation. Can any thing show more friendly to the
Union than adopting the constitution, and sending us here to administer
it? If we judge from these circumstances, there is good reason to
believe that the State Governments will pay a proper attention to the
duty enjoined upon them by the constitution. I shall readily agree, if
they do not pay this attention, that the National Legislature ought to
exercise its powers to compel them; but they know the necessity there is
for conforming to what the constitution orders; if they neglect it, it
becomes in some degree a relinquishment of their power in government. No
State Legislature can pass an act that will have the efficacy of a law.
Suppose a judge on the bench were to condemn a criminal to die for an
offence; the sentence could not be carried into execution, if the judge
had omitted to qualify himself for the discharge of the duties of his
office. In short, there would be a total stagnation of the Government,
its vital powers would be suspended, until they were revived by the
action of the constitution. Besides, the constitution partakes of the
nature of a compact; it guaranties to the State Governments the
principles of a republican government, conditionally, that the States
conform themselves to what is declared in the constitution; they must
therefore take the oath directed by the constitution, or infringe the
compact; in which case I apprehend, the guaranty is virtually withdrawn;
this is another inducement for the States to perform their duty.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--I believe, Mr. Speaker, if there is any thing improper in
making provision that the officers shall take an oath to support the
Government, the fault cannot properly be charged upon us, because the
provision is already made, and adopted by our constituents; and we are
to suppose that some beneficial effects were intended by it; while we
are reprobating the measure, let us take care we do not fall under the
censure, which the observation of the gentleman last up brought to our
view, of taking an oath, and neglecting to fulfil the duties enjoined by
it. I believe, sir, that the persons who are to take this oath in
conformity to the constitution, will conceive themselves, after having
taken such oath, under an obligation to support the constitution. It has
been said by one gentleman, that Congress have not the power to carry
this regulation into effect. Only a few words will be necessary to
convince gentlemen that Congress have this power. It is declared by the
constitution, that its ordinances shall be the supreme law of the land.
If the constitution is the supreme law of the land, every part of it
must partake of this supremacy; consequently, every general declaration
it contains is the supreme law. But then these general declarations
cannot be carried into effect, without particular regulations adapted to
the circumstances. These particular regulations are to be made by
Congress, who, by the constitution, have power to make all laws
necessary or proper to carry the declarations of the constitution into
effect. The constitution likewise declares, that the members of the
State Legislatures, and all officers, executive and judicial, shall take
an oath to support the constitution. This declaration is general, and it
lies with the supreme Legislature to detail and regulate it. The law is
to supply the necessary means of executing the principle laid down; for
how can it be carried into effect in any other manner? This explanation,
I trust, convinces gentlemen that the power of enacting such a law
exists in Congress. But whether it is good policy or not to do it,
depends upon a variety of circumstances; for my own part, I think it
prudent to make the necessary regulations for carrying into effect this
part of the constitution.
Mr. SYLVESTER.--I am an advocate for supporting the dignity of the
House, and to me it appears somewhat inconsistent that we should change
our sentiments in order to conform to the amendment of the Senate,
without knowing the reason upon which they have founded the proposed
measure. No doubt but sufficient reasons have occurred to them, but none
have appeared to this House. If we are to follow the Senate in all the
alterations they propose, without hearing reasons to induce a change,
our time in deliberation is taken up unnecessarily. With respect to any
member of this House who has not taken the oath, I concur that they are
to pay obedience to what the authority of the Legislature may order on
this head. Nay, I am equally clear that the power to regulate the
members of the State Governments in taking the oath, is either lodged
with the Congress of the United States, or nowhere. But, it appears to
me, that the State Legislatures have a concurrent power with Congress in
this regulation, for the officers of the General Government and State
Governments are called upon in the same manner: "The Senators and
Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several State
Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the
United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath, or
affirmation, to support the constitution." These are the words of that
instrument. The question, then, is reduced to its expediency, whether
it is good policy to exercise the power or not? I am afraid, Mr.
Speaker, if we exercise this power, it may be considered an interference
with the State Governments. I would rather leave them to their
discretion, trusting they would come forward and take the oath; it is
unnecessary for us to intermeddle, if they will conform to what is
directed by the constitution. It appears to me most prudent, that, till
we see a disposition in the State Governments to neglect this duty, we
do not, by law, oblige them to perform it. I wish the Government to go
on gradually in administering the constitution, and not give umbrage
even to its enemies, by a compulsory act, when there appears no
necessity for it.
I could not concur in the amendment proposed by the Senate, even if I
considered it not inconsistent in the House to adopt a measure they had
previously rejected, unless some good reasons were offered to show its
propriety; not but if I have been mistaken, I am always ready to retract
my error, upon better information.
Mr. SHERMAN was not afraid of being charged with inconsistency. He had
voted against a similar clause when the bill was before the House, but
he was convinced now of its propriety; he thought it more eligible to
have a general provision for taking the oath, than particular ones. It
also appeared necessary to point out the oath itself, as well as the
time and manner of taking it. No other Legislature is competent to all
these purposes; but, if they were, there is a propriety in the supreme
Legislature's doing it. At the same time, if the State Legislatures take
it up, it cannot operate disagreeably upon them, to find all their
neighboring States obliged to join them in supporting a measure they
approve. What a State Legislature may do, will be good as far as it
goes; on the same principle, the constitution will apply to each
individual of the State officers--they may go, without the direction of
the State Legislature, to a justice, and take the oath voluntarily.
This, I suppose, would be binding upon them. But this is not
satisfactory; the Government ought to know that the oath has been
properly taken, and this can only be done by a general regulation. If it
is in the discretion of the State Legislatures to make laws to carry the
declaration of the constitution into execution, they have the power of
refusing, and may avoid the positive injunctions of the constitution. As
our power in this particular extends over the whole Union, it is most
proper for us to take the subject up, and make the proper provision for
carrying it into execution, according to the intention of the
constitution.
Mr. BOUDINOT wished to remove the gentleman's objections arising from
inconsistency. The clause that was rejected by the Committee of the
Whole on this bill, contained a penalty for the neglect of taking the
oath as prescribed; but the amendment of the Senate was not
objectionable on that account, because it contained no such provision.
As to the policy or expediency of the messure, he entertained not the
least doubt respecting it. The constitution said only that the officers
of Government should be bound by oath, leaving to Congress to say what
oath. In short it was the duty of the House, as had been well said by
the gentleman from New York, (Mr. LAWRENCE,) to detail the general
principles laid down in the constitution, and reduce them to practice.
He would enforce the expediency of the measure with one further remark.
Several of the State Legislatures were sitting at this time, and had
expressed a wish or expectation that such a regulation would be made by
the General Government; if from principles of false policy the measure
did not take place, the State Legislatures might neglect it also, and it
was well known that their officers cannot act without it; hence the
legality of their acts may be called in question, and give cause to a
great deal of uneasiness and confusion.
The question on concurring with the Senate in their amendments to the
bill was carried, with an amendment, that the members of the State
Legislatures be directed to take the oath at their next session
respectively.
The bill was, by order of the House, returned to the Senate as amended.
THURSDAY, May 7.
Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, from the committee appointed to wait on
the President of the United States, to know when it will be convenient
for him to receive the address of this House, reported:
That the committee had, according to order, waited on the President, and
that he signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive
the said address at 12 o'clock on Friday, at such place as the House
shall be pleased to appoint: Whereupon,
_Resolved_, That as the Chamber designed for the
President's receiving the respective Houses is not yet
prepared, this House will wait on the President to present
their address, in the room adjacent to the Representatives'
Chamber.
_Duties on Tonnage._
The House resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee of
the Whole on the duty on tonnage. The proposition was to lay a duty of
fifty cents per ton, on all vessels belonging wholly or in part to the
subjects of all other Powers.
Mr. MADISON moved to reduce it to forty cents, and at the end of the
year 1790, to increase it to seventy-five cents. He was satisfied to go
as far as seventy-five, because he expected, under such encouragement, a
sufficient number of vessels for the whole commerce of America might be
constructed. If he was not too sanguine in this expectation, the measure
would be both safe and expedient.
Mr. SMITH, (of Maryland.)--Both in Virginia and Maryland, British ships
pay a higher duty than what is proposed; yet they continue to carry on
an extensive trade in those States, which, in my opinion, proves those
sums to be too low. American shipping derives considerable advantages
from the regulations made in this respect by those two States. If that
protection is withdrawn from them by the General Government, it will
subject our commerce to very great inconveniences and absolute distress.
I shall therefore be opposed to the reduction.
Mr. AMES.--The gentlemen from the southward, who suppose their States
most likely to be affected by a discrimination in the tonnage duty, have
concluded their arguments with a candor, which I conceive does honor to
their patriotism. They declare themselves willing to encourage American
shipping and commerce, though they do not join with us in the sum we
think necessary to be laid on foreign tonnage to accomplish so important
an object. If sufficient encouragement is given, and by our regulation
American vessels are put on a footing with foreigners, I think we may
flatter ourselves with the prospect of seeing our navigation immediately
flourish. We have reason to expect a very considerable addition to our
shipping in the course of one year. Experience has convinced us, that
25,000 tons can be built within double that period, by the town of
Boston alone. The other ports in Massachusetts can furnish 37,000 tons,
New Hampshire a considerable quantity, and if the other States furnish
their proportion, we shall soon find ourselves independent of European
nations for the transportation of our products. If forty cents at
present, and the seventy-five cents in expectation, are thought a
sufficient encouragement for the purpose, I shall not object to the
motion.
Mr. FITZSIMONS.--If it is intended to increase the duty at the
expiration of two years, it is certainly proper to reduce it in the
interim; but I very much question such policy. The business of
ship-building, I conceive, stands at this moment in want of the greatest
encouragement in our power to give. If sufficient encouragement is
given, at this time, to produce a quantity of shipping adequate to the
demand, when we once are in possession of them, the business will stand
in need of no further encouragement. If the citizens of the United
States were now in possession of a sufficient quantity of shipping, and
had the ability to employ them, I conceive they would not stand in need
of any encouragement whatever. But this is not the case, and therefore
an encouragement is requisite. At the conclusion of the last war we were
left without shipping, and from our inability to carry on commerce, by
reason of the oppression we were subjected to by foreign powers, the
building of vessels has made but slow progress in the several States.
Hence it becomes necessary to give encouragement sufficient to induce
merchants to vest a greater proportion of their capital in this way. The
proposed encouragement is not very high, and even under it, I should not
expect a quantity of shipping would be furnished equal to the demand, in
less than four or five years. It would be brought forward by slow and
gradual degrees; they will continue, year by year, to increase them,
until the number is competent to the demand. The business of
ship-building being so relaxed, persons of that occupation have turned
to other avocations, and some sensible advantage must appear, to induce
them to return to their original profession. A proof of this is
evidenced by the situation of Philadelphia. Before the Revolution, 5,000
tons of shipping were annually built in that city; last year, the whole
tonnage was but 1,300, so much has it declined there. If it revives from
its present languishing condition, it must be by great fostering care
and protection, and by slow and gradual degrees. It does not appear to
me, that fifty cents are more than necessary for its immediate
encouragement. Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect that it is always
in the power of Congress to increase it.
Gentlemen will recollect, on the article of hemp, immediate
encouragement was contended for. It was not opposed by the commercial
gentlemen in this House. But without encouragement is given to building
and fitting out ships, the demand for hemp will be small; for very
little advantage will arise from exporting it: the great market must be
furnished by ourselves. Upon the whole, I conclude against the motion,
believing our ship-building to need encouragement more at this time than
it will at any subsequent period.
Mr. JACKSON.--The gentlemen from Massachusetts have, I must own, behaved
with liberality. One is willing to reduce the duty to forty cents,
another gentleman is more liberal still--he is willing to go lower; but
not so the gentlemen from Pennsylvania and Maryland; they are actuated
by other principles. They call to my mind a passage of scripture, where
a king, by the advice of inexperienced counsellors, declared to his
people, "my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, but I will add to
your burthens." A steady pursuit of this counsel brought about the
separation of his kingdom. These gentlemen want us even to go further.
They bring forward calculations upon the moment, and pass them for
information,--the mere calculations of yesterday,--and demonstrate
thereby the propriety of their measures. They may consider some States
of less importance than others, because they do not contribute the same
quantity of revenue; but let them remember, the widow's mite is as good
as the rich man's coffers; so the mite of Georgia is equal to the
revenue of Pennsylvania.
Mr. BURKE.--It has been observed, in the former part of the debate, that
the people of the Southern States might buy ships, if they did not
build them. There are none owned in Carolina: we are destitute both of
ships and seamen, and unable to procure them; it would be folly in us,
therefore, to burthen them with duties. Though it is true, that there
are men there who live in affluence, are rich in lands and servants, yet
I believe they are universally in debt. This may be fairly inferred from
the laws they have made to favor debtors. It would take twelve years to
enable people there to pay their State and private debts; they are
therefore very unable to sustain any new burthens, especially when their
produce is so fallen in price as not to pay the expense of cultivation.
I do not say this is to be attributed to the want of vessels to carry it
off, though there may probably be a great want in this respect; and if
there is, gentlemen tell you they are unable to make up the deficiency.
If this be the case, they ought to be contented with a moderate duty for
the present; and as my mind is strongly impressed with the importance of
encouraging the American navigation, I shall join them in doing
something that may be productive of that effect.
Mr. MADISON.--As there is a great diversity of sentiment respecting the
policy of the duty, I am very happy to find it is not prescribed by the
geographical situation of our country. This evinces that it is merely
difference of opinion, and not difference of interest. Gentlemen of the
same State differ as much as gentlemen from the extremes of the
continent. As no objection is made to giving some encouragement, we
ought to endeavor to harmonize upon the quantum. I doubt very much if
any proposition that can now be brought forward will coincide with the
sentiments of this body more than the one that is before us. I am not
anxious to reduce the encouragement too low, nor to throw to a very
distant day the advanced rate intended by my modification of the
measure; so gentlemen need not apprehend any evil to arise from its
adoption.
Gentlemen who are opposed to giving sufficient encouragement to
ship-building, ought to recollect an argument that was considered of
weight in the case of encouraging manufactures. It is certain that
manufactures have been reared up by the fostering care of the State
Legislatures, displayed in the shape of protecting duties; but the
people, by the adoption of this constitution, have put it out of their
power to continue them. The provision for the support of navigation,
made by the several States, ought to induce us to suppose even a higher
tonnage duty pleasing to them, at least in those States where a higher
tonnage duty has been laid. Those States not being able to continue
their encouragement, expect that we will attend to their policy, and
protect their citizens in the property they were led to acquire under
the State regulations. If we disappoint them, they will suffer more than
is consistent with good policy. I am not apprehensive that forty cents
will be so low as to occasion any discontent.
Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina.)--Gentlemen have endeavored to persuade
us, that a high tonnage duty will be beneficial to the Union; but I
would as soon be persuaded to throw myself out of a two-story window, as
to believe a high tonnage duty was favorable to South Carolina.
Gentlemen tell us we are in great want of shipping and a navy--that
sufficient encouragement for ship-building must be given before we can
expect it; but I think, let the encouragement be what it may, many years
will elapse before we have sufficient for the export of our commodities.
I know Massachusetts cannot furnish us, because there are adventitious
causes to prevent it. The course of the stream in which our navigation
has so long flowed, cannot be altered in a day. The debts due from the
merchants of that country to the British, will be an insuperable bar.
Suppose they should send ships to transport our produce to a foreign
market, they have no connections abroad to transact their business, no
house in a commercial line to employ in the sales. What are they to
bring back in return? They must come in ballast: and will the mere
transportation of our crop be a sufficient inducement to engage them to
come here? If they had more shipping than they wanted, we should still
labor under the same difficulty, and employ foreigners; because the
business is unchangeably in their hands, and the very moment the tonnage
duty is increased, it will be an inducement to them to raise the price
of freight.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--There have been circumstances mentioned in the course of
this debate, which I think may be useful in ascertaining whether the
proposed duty of fifty cents on tonnage be too high or not. It appears
that there is a duty in Georgia equal to 1s. 8d. sterling; in South
Carolina, 1s. 3d. besides something on goods imported in foreign
bottoms; in Virginia and Maryland it is much greater. How, then, can
gentlemen from those States contend that the proposed duty is so much
too high as to occasion the fatal consequences they foretell? When we
consider the valuable produce of the Southern States, we are led to
believe that the difference of ten cents per ton can make no material
difference in the price. Will it materially affect the price of rice or
tobacco? Neither of these articles would pay more than five cents per
cask, if the duty should be reduced.
The duty, therefore, cannot be fairly said to be too high for the
Southern States; it is not contended to be too high for the middle ones;
it is not too high for us.
If we consider the subject as it relates to revenue, it will form a
material object for our attention; if the duty be considered as a bounty
to the maritime States, it will be admitted that it is our interest to
increase our navigation.
The regulation proposed by the gentleman from Virginia, to increase the
duty to seventy-five cents at the end of two years, may never take
effect; before that period arrives, a treaty may be formed with the
nation that is our great commercial rival. I am, therefore, in favor of
a permanent regulation, rather than one holding out an encouragement
that will never take place.
Mr. JACKSON.--The gentleman last up thinks the reduction of ten cents
will not materially affect the Southern States, yet he supposes it will
injure ship-building: how it can hurt one interest by being reduced, and
not wound the other by its increase, I do not clearly understand; for my
part, I do not see the weight of such arguments.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--I consider the difference of ten cents to be too small
for contention; the arguments of the gentlemen in opposition go as much
against a duty of forty cents as against fifty.
Mr. PAGE.--I have heard all the arguments now brought against this
measure, urged over and over again, when a tonnage duty was contended
against in the same manner in Virginia. It was then merely a trial, but
now we have the arguments resulting from experience in our favor. We
find the British shipping still crowding our ports, although the tonnage
duty is twice as great as is now proposed; and although the price of
produce has fallen within that time, yet I am persuaded it must be
attributed to other causes than this. Let the experiment be made with
firmness, and I venture to say, it will turn out the same in other
States as in ours. I acknowledge the gentlemen's arguments have weight,
but they go against any tax whatsoever being laid on tonnage. But
experience has demonstrated to us, that such a duty is attended with
advantages; it will encourage ship-building, and render us independent
for the transportation of our produce. Let, therefore, no suggestions of
the kind that have been offered deter us from pursuing, with firmness
and decision, the plan adopted by the committee.
Mr. WADSWORTH.--If the gentleman who has brought forward this
proposition had proposed thirty cents instead of forty, I should have
agreed to the motion, because it would have destroyed the discrimination
between the vessels of nations in treaty, and those not in treaty with
us; but in every other point of view, I should be against a reduction.
Foreign vessels will be better circumstanced under a duty of fifty
cents, than American free of duty. The charges on foreign bottoms in our
ports are very small; there is not, I believe, a vessel of ours that
goes to Europe, that does not pay, in light money and other charges,
more than fifty cents per ton.
Mr. MADISON.--The subject of discrimination is not now within our view;
it has been decided by a great majority; I think there were not more
than nine members against it. I do not mean, by the arguments that I
have urged, to prove that the increase of tonnage has a tendency to
raise the price of freight: all my object has been to quiet the
apprehensions of gentlemen who hold that opinion. I do not think it will
keep away foreign vessels from visiting us, nor increase the burthen on
our Southern commerce, so much as has been calculated; and even if it
did, the extension of our navigation would be an adequate compensation.
The price of freight before the late revolution was higher than it is at
present; perhaps it may be lower when ships are furnished in larger
quantities.
Mr. TUCKER.--I fear the gentlemen who look for a sufficient quantity of
shipping to answer the demands of our commerce in so short a space as
two years, will find themselves deceived. I think, therefore, it would
be improper to lay a high tonnage duty, commencing at that period; if it
appears expedient, a future Legislature may give such encouragement, but
they are not bound to perform our engagement. After they have seen the
effect of the present regulation, they will be better able to judge of
what is right in this particular than we can do. I am doubtful whether
the measure would place the United States in a better or worse situation
than a duty of fifty cents; a commutation of this kind, in order to save
ten cents for two years, and admit an addition of twenty-five cents for
ever afterwards, appears a doubtful policy. At any rate, the Congress
might feel themselves, in some degree, bound to raise the duty to
seventy-five cents, when their judgments might tell them it was
inexpedient--they will then have cause to complain of our anticipation.
I should, I think, rather be in favor of fixing a certain tonnage duty
at present, and leave it to the consideration of a future Legislature,
whether to increase it or not, according to the circumstances of the
case. I think thirty cents as much as can be given, with propriety, at
this time; considering the interest of the State I have the honor to
represent, I believe it will bear harder on some States than on others,
acting partially and not generally. When I speak of the State I
represent, I would not be thought actuated by improper motives; I think
every gentleman is bound to support, in a proper manner, the interest he
is well acquainted with, and believes to be conducive to the general
welfare. A great deal has been said respecting the duties that have been
laid on tonnage in the Southern States. I begged the attention of the
House, on a former occasion, to a striking difference there is in duties
imposed by the State, for its own particular advantage, and what are
about to be laid for the benefit of the United States. Every duty
imposed, I consider as a tax on the inhabitants of South Carolina. If
that tax is to bear harder on them than on other States, I pronounce it
unequal and unjust. I consider the tax on tonnage in this light; but as
I am willing to give encouragement to our navigation, so I shall not
oppose a moderate duty on foreign vessels; as I also conceive a
discrimination proper between those nations in alliance with us and
those with whom we have no treaties subsisting, I am disposed to admit a
larger sum than thirty cents: I would propose thirty-five, upon the
express condition of reducing the duty already agreed to, to twenty or
twenty-five, when a bill shall come forward founded upon the principles
now agreed to.
The question was here put on Mr. MADISON's motion and lost.
The House then decided upon the original proposition, which being agreed
to, it was
_Resolved_, That there ought to be levied on all vessels
entered or cleared in the United States, the duties
following, to wit:
On all vessels built within the United States, and
belonging wholly to citizens thereof, at the rate of nine
cents per ton.
On all vessels not built within the United States, but now
belonging wholly to citizens thereof, at the rate of six
cents per ton.
On all vessels belonging wholly to the subjects of Powers
with whom the United States have formed treaties, or partly
to the subjects of such Powers, and partly to citizens of
the said States, at the rate of thirty cents per ton.
On all vessels belonging wholly or in part to subjects of
other Powers, at the rate of fifty cents per ton.
_Provided_, That no vessel built within the United States,
and belonging to a citizen or citizens thereof, whilst
employed in the coasting trade, or in the fisheries, shall
pay tonnage more than once in any one year; nor shall any
ship or vessel built within the United States pay tonnage
on her first voyage.
_Provided also_, That no vessel be employed in the
transportation of the produce or manufactures of the United
States or any of them, coastwise, except such vessels shall
be built within the United States, and the property of a
citizen or citizens thereof.
The same was, on a question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.
_Ordered_, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said
resolution, and that Mr. WADSWORTH, Mr. HEISTER, and Mr. SENEY, do
prepare and bring in the same.[22]
FRIDAY, May 8.
The Speaker, attended by the members of the House, withdrew to the room
adjoining the Representatives' Chamber, and there presented to the
President of the United States the address agreed to on Tuesday last, to
which he returned the following answer: