be commercial? Were I to indulge my own theory, I should wish them to
practise neither commerce nor navigation, but to stand, with respect to
Europe, precisely on the footing of China. We should thus avoid wars,
and all our citizens would be husbandmen. Whenever, indeed, our numbers
should so increase, as that our produce would overstock the markets of
those nations who should come to seek it, the farmers must either employ
the surplus of their time in manufactures, or the surplus of our hands
must be employed in manufactures, or in navigation. But that day would,
I think, be distant, and we should long keep our workmen in Europe,
while Europe should be drawing rough materials, and even subsistence,
from America. But this is theory only, and a theory which the servants
of America are not at liberty to follow. Our people have a decided taste
for navigation and commerce. They take this from their mother country;
and their servants are in duty bound to calculate all their measures on
this datum: we wish to do it by throwing open all the doors of commerce,
and knocking off its shackles. But as this cannot be done for others,
unless they will do it for us, and there is no great probability that
Europe will do this, I suppose we shall be obliged to adopt a system
which may shackle them in our ports, as they do us in theirs. With
respect to the sale of our lands, that cannot begin till a considerable
portion shall have been surveyed. They cannot begin to survey till the
fall of the leaf of this year, nor to sell probably till the ensuing
spring. So that it will be yet a twelvemonth, before we shall be able to
judge of the efficacy of our land-office, to sink our national debt. It
is made a fundamental, that the proceeds shall be solely and sacredly
applied as a sinking fund, to discharge the capital only of the debt.
It is true that the tobaccos of Virginia go almost entirely to England.
The reason is, the people of that State owe a great debt there, which
they are paying as fast as they can. I think I have now answered your
several queries, and shall be happy to receive your reflections on the
same subjects, and at all times to hear of your welfare, and to give you
assurances of the esteem, with which I have the honor to be, Dear Sir,
your most obedient
and most humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXVIII.--TO J. BANNISTER, JUNIOR, October 15,1785
TO J. BANNISTER, JUNIOR.
Paris, October 15,1785.
Dear Sir,
I should sooner have answered the paragraph in your letter, of September
the 19th, respecting the best seminary for the education of youth,
in Europe, but that it was necessary for me to make inquiries on the
subject. The result of these has been, to consider the competition as
resting between Geneva and Rome. They are equally cheap, and probably
are equal in the course of education pursued. The advantage of Geneva
is, that students acquire there the habit of speaking French. The
advantages of Rome are, the acquiring a local knowledge of a spot so
classical and so celebrated; the acquiring the true pronunciation of the
Latin language; a just taste in the fine arts, more particularly those
of painting, sculpture, architecture, and music; a familiarity with
those objects and processes of agriculture, which experience has shown
best adapted to a climate like ours; and lastly, the advantage of a
fine climate for health. It is probable, too, that by being boarded in a
French family, the habit of speaking that language may be obtained. I
do not count on any advantage to be derived in Geneva from a familiar
acquaintance with the principles of that government. The late revolution
has rendered it a tyrannical aristocracy, more likely to give ill, than
good ideas to an American. I think the balance in favor of Rome. Pisa is
sometimes spoken of, as a place of education. But it does not offer
the first and third of the advantages of Rome. But why send an American
youth to Europe for education? What are the objects of an useful
American education? Classical knowledge, modern languages, chiefly
French, Spanish, and Italian; Mathematics, Natural Philosophy, Natural
History, Civil History, and Ethics. In Natural Philosophy, I mean to
include Chemistry and Agriculture, and in Natural History, to include
Botany, as well as the other branches of those departments. It is
true, that the habit of speaking the modern languages cannot be so well
acquired in America; but every other article can be as well acquired
at William and Mary College, as at any place in Europe. When college
education is done with, and a young man is to prepare himself for public
life, he must cast his eyes (for America) either on Law or Physic. For
the former, where can he apply so advantageously as to Mr. Wythe? For
the latter, he must come to Europe: the medical class of students,
therefore, is the only one which need come to Europe. Let us view the
disadvantages of sending a youth to Europe. To enumerate them all, would
require a volume. I will select a few. If he goes to England, he learns
drinking, horse-racing, and boxing. These are the peculiarities of
English education. The following circumstances are common to education
in that, and the other countries of Europe. He acquires a fondness for
European luxury,and dissipation, and a contempt for the simplicity of
his own country; he is fascinated with the privileges of the European
aristocrats, and sees, with abhorrence, the lovely equality which the
poor enjoy with the rich in his own country; he contracts a partiality
for aristocracy or monarchy; he forms foreign friendships which will
never be useful to him, and loses the season of life for forming in
his own country those friendships, which, of all others, are the most
faithful and permanent; he is led by the strongest of all the human
passions into a spirit for female intrigue, destructive of his own and
others’ happiness, or a passion for whores, destructive of his health,
and in both cases, learns to consider fidelity to the marriage bed as an
ungentlemanly practice, and inconsistent with happiness; he recollects
the voluptuary dress and arts of the European women, and pities and
despises the chaste affections and simplicity of those of his own
country; he retains, through life, a fond recollection, and a hankering
after those places, which were the scenes of his first pleasures and
of his first connections; he returns to his own country a foreigner,
unacquainted with the practices of domestic economy necessary to
preserve him from ruin, speaking and writing his native tongue as a
foreigner, and therefore unqualified to obtain those distinctions, which
eloquence of the pen and tongue ensures in a free country; for, I would
observe to you, that what is called style in writing or speaking,
is formed very early in life, while the imagination is warm, and
impressions are permanent. I am of opinion, that there never was an
instance of a man’s writing or speaking his native tongue with elegance,
who passed from fifteen to twenty years of age out of the country
where it was spoken. Thus, no instance exists of a person’s writing two
languages perfectly. That will always appear to be his native language,
which was most familiar to him in his youth. It appears to me then, that
an American coming to Europe for education, loses in his knowledge, in
his morals, in his health, in his habits, and in his happiness. I had
entertained only doubts on this head, before I came to Europe: what I
see and hear, since I came here, proves more than I had even suspected.
Cast your eye over America: who are the men of most learning, of most
eloquence, most beloved by their countrymen, and most trusted and
promoted by them? They are those who have been educated among them, and
whose manners, morals, and habits, are perfectly homogeneous with those
of the country.
Did you expect by so short a question, to draw such a sermon on
yourself? I daresay you did not. But the consequences of foreign
education are alarming to me, as an American. I sin, therefore, through
zeal, whenever I enter on the subject. You are sufficiently American
to pardon me for it. Let me hear of your health, and be assured of the
esteem with which I am, Dear Sir,
your friend and servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXIX.--TO MR. CARMICHAEL, October 18, 1785
TO MR. CARMICHAEL.
Paris, October 18, 1785.
Dear Sir,
Your favor of the 29th of September came safely to hand: the constant
expectation of the departure of the persons whom I formerly gave you
reason to expect, has prevented my writing, as it has done yours. They
will probably leave this in a week, but their route will be circuitous
and attended with delays. Between the middle and last of November, they
may be with you. By them, you will receive a cipher, by which you may
communicate with Mr. Adams and myself. I should have sent it by Baron
Dreyer, the Danish minister; but I then expected our own conveyance
would have been quicker. Having mentioned this gentleman, give me leave
to recommend him to your acquaintance. He is plain, sensible, and open:
he speaks English well, and had he been to remain here, I should have
cultivated his acquaintance much. Be so good as to present me very
respectfully to him.
This being to go by post, I shall only add the few articles of general
American news, by the last packet. Dr. Franklin arrived in good health
at Philadelphia, the 15th ult., and was received amidst the acclamations
of an immense crowd. No late event has produced greater demonstrations
of joy. It is doubted whether Congress will adjourn this summer; but
they are so thin, they do not undertake important business. Our western
posts are in statu quo.
I have the honor to be, with great esteem, Dear Sir,
your friend and servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXX.--TO MESSRS. VAN STAPHORSTS, October 25,1785
TO MESSRS. VAN STAPHORSTS.
Paris, October 25,1785.
Gentlemen,
I received yesterday your favor of the 20th instant. In order to give
you the information you desire, on the subject of the liquidated debts
of the United States, and the comparative footing on which they stand,
I must observe to you, that the first and great division of our
federal debt, is, into 1. foreign; and 2. domestic. The foreign debt
comprehends, 1. the loan from the government of Spain; 2. the loans from
the government of France, and from the Farmers General; 3. the loans
negotiated in Holland, by order of Congress. This branch of our debt
stands absolutely singular: no man in the United States having ever
supposed that Congress, or their legislatures, can, in any wise, modify
or alter it. They justly view the United States as the one party,
and the lenders as the other, and that the consent of both would be
requisite, were any modification to be proposed. But with respect to the
domestic debt, they consider Congress as representing both the borrowers
and lenders, and that the modifications which have taken place in this,
have been necessary to do justice between the two parties, and that they
flowed properly from Congress as their mutual umpire. The domestic debt
comprehends 1. the army debt; 2. the loan-office debt; 3. the liquidated
debt; and 4. the unliquidated debt. The first term includes debts to the
officers and soldiers for pay, bounty, and subsistence. The second term
means monies put into the loan-office of the United States. The third
comprehends all debts contracted by quarter-masters, commissioners, and
others duly authorized to procure supplies for the army, and which have
been liquidated (that is, settled) by commissioners appointed under the
resolution of Congress, of June the 12th, 1780, or by the officer who
made the contract. The fourth comprehends the whole mass of debts,
described in the preceding article, which have not yet been liquidated.
These are in a course of liquidation, and are passing over daily into
the third class. The debts of this third class, that is, the liquidated
debt, is the object of your inquiry. No time is fixed for the payment of
it, no fund as yet determined, nor any firm provision for the interest
in the mean time. The consequence is, that the certificates of these
debts sell greatly below par. When I left America, they could be bought
for from two shillings and sixpence to fifteen shillings, in the pound:
this difference proceeding from the circumstance of some STates having
provided for paying the interest on those due in their own State, which
others had not. Hence, an opinion had arisen with some, and propositions
had even been made in the legislatures, for paying off the principal of
these debts with what they had cost the holder, and interest on that.
This opinion is far from being general, and I think will not prevail.
But it is among possible events.
I have been thus particular, that you might be able to judge, not only
in the present case, but also in others, should any attempts be made
to speculate in your city, on these papers. It is a business, in which
foreigners will be in great danger of being duped. It is a science which
bids defiance to the powers of reason. To understand it, a man must not
only be on the spot, and be perfectly possessed of all the circumstances
relative to every species of these papers, but he must have that
dexterity which the habit of buying and selling them alone gives. The
brokers of these certificates are few in number, and any other person
venturing to deal with them, engages in a very unequal contest.
i have the honor to be, with the highest respect, gentlemen,
your most obedient humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXXI.--TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL, November 4, 1785
TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL.
Paris, November 4, 1785.
Dear Sir,
I had the honor of writing you on the 18th of October, and again on
the 25th of the same month. Both letters, being to pass through the
post-offices, were confined to particular subjects. The first of them
acknowledged the receipt of yours of September the 29th.
At length a confidential opportunity arrives for conveying to you a
cipher; it will be handed you by the bearer, Mr, Lambe. Copies of it are
in the hands of Mr. Adams, at London, Mr. Barclay, who is proceeding to
Morocco, and Mr. Lambe, who is proceeding to Algiers. This enables us
to keep up such correspondences with each other, as maybe requisite.
Congress, in the spring of 1784, gave powers to Mr. Adams, Dr. Franklin,
and myself, to treat with the Barbary States. But they gave us no money
for them, and the other duties assigned us rendered it impossible for
us to proceed thither in person. These things having been represented to
them, they assigned to us a certain sum of money, and gave us powers
to delegate agents to treat with those States, and to form preliminary
articles, but confining to us the signing of them in a definitive form.
They did not restrain us in the appointment of the agents; but the
orders of Congress were brought to us by Mr. Lambe, they had waited for
him four months, and the recommendations he brought, pointed him out, in
our opinion, as a person who would meet the approbation of Congress. We
therefore appointed him to negotiate with the Algerines. His manners
and appearance are not promising. But he is a sensible man, and seems to
possess some talents which may be proper in a matter of bargain. We have
joined with him, as secretary, a Mr. Randall, from New York, in whose
prudence we hope he will find considerable aid. They now proceed to
Madrid, merely with the view of seeing you, as we are assured they
will receive from you lights which may be useful to them. I hear that
D’Expilly and the Algerine ministers have gone from Madrid. Letters
from Algiers, of August the 24th, inform me, that we had two vessels and
their crews in captivity there, at that time. I have never had reason to
believe certainly, that any others had been captured. Should Mr. Lambe
have occasion to draw bills, while in Spain, on Mr. Adams, you may
safely assure the purchasers that they will be paid.
An important matter detains Mr. Barclay some days longer, and his
journey to Madrid will be circuitous. Perhaps he may arrive there a
month later than Lambe. It would be well if the Emperor of Morocco
could, in the mean time, know that such a person is on the road. Perhaps
you may have an opportunity of notifying this to him officially, by
asking from him passports for Mr. Barclay and his suite. This would
be effecting too[sp.] good purposes at once, if you can find an
opportunity.
Your letter of September the 2d did not get to my hands till these
arrangements were all taken between Mr. Adams and myself, and the
persons appointed. That gave me the first hint that you would have acted
in this business. I mean no flattery when I assure you, that no person
would have better answered my wishes. At the same time, I doubt whether
Mr. Adams and myself should have thought ourselves justifiable in
withdrawing a servant of the United States from a post equally important
with those, which prevented our acting personally in the same business.
I am sure, that, remaining where you are, you will be able to forward
much the business, and that you will do it with the zeal you have
hitherto manifested on every occasion.
Your intercourse with America being less frequent than ours, from this
place, I will state to you, generally, such new occurrences there,
as may be interesting; some of which, perhaps, you will not have been
informed of. It was doubtful, at the date of my last letters, whether
Congress would adjourn this summer. They were too thin, however, to
undertake important business. They had begun arrangements for the
establishment of a mint. The Dollar was decided on as the money unit
of America. I believe, they proposed to have gold, silver, and copper
coins, descending and ascending decimally; viz. a gold coin of ten
dollars, a silver coin of one tenth of a dollar (equal to a Spanish
bit), and a copper, of one hundredth of a dollar. These parts of the
plan, however, were not ultimately decided on. They have adopted the
late improvement in the British post-office, of sending their mails by
the stages. I am told, this is done from New Hampshire to Georgia, and
from New York to Albany. Their treasury is administered by a board,
of which Mr. Walter Livingston, Mr. Osgood, and Dr. Arthur Lee, are
members. Governor Rutledge who had been appointed minister to the Hague,
on the refusal of Governor Livingston, declines coming. We are
uncertain whether the States will generally come into the proposition of
investing. Congress with the regulation of their commerce. Massachusetts
has passed an act, the first object of which seemed to be, to retaliate
on the British commercial measures, but in the close of it, they impose
double duties on all goods imported in bottoms not wholly owned by
citizens of our States. New Hampshire has followed the example. This
is much complained of here, and will probably draw retaliating measures
from the States of Europe, if generally adopted in America, or not
corrected by the States which have adopted it. It must be our endeavor
to keep them quiet on this side the water, under the hope that our
countrymen will correct this step; as I trust they will do. It is no
ways akin to their general system. I am trying here to get contracts
for the supplying the cities of France with whale-oil, by the Boston
merchants. It would be the greatest relief possible to that State,
whose commerce is in agonies, in consequence of being subjected to alien
duties on their oil in Great Britain, which has been heretofore their
only market. Can any thing be done, in this way, in Spain? Or do they
there light their streets in the night?
A fracas, which has lately happened in Boston, becoming a serious
matter, I will give you the details of it, as transmitted to Mr. Adams
in depositions. A Captain Stanhope, commanding the frigate Mercury,
was sent with a convoy of vessels from Nova Scotia to Boston, to get a
supply of provisions for that colony. It had happened, that two persons
living near Boston, of the names of Dunbar and Lowthorp, had been taken
prisoners during the war, and transferred from one vessel to another,
till they were placed on board Stanhope’s ship. He treated them most
cruelly, whipping them frequently, in order to make them do duty against
their country, as sailors, on board his ship. The ship going to Antigua
to refit, he put all his prisoners into jail, first giving Dunbar
twenty-four lashes. Peace took place, and the prisoners got home
under the general liberation. These men were quietly pursuing their
occupations at home, when they heard that Stanhope was in Boston.
Their indignation was kindled. They immediately went there, and meeting
Stanhope walking in the mall, Dunbar stepped up to him, and asked him
if he recollected him, and the whipping him on board his ship. Having
no weapon in his hand, he struck at Stanhope with his fist. Stanhope
stepped back, and drew his sword. The people interposed, and guarded him
to the door of a Mr. Morton, to which he retreated. There Dunbar again
attempted to seize him; but the high-sheriff had by this time arrived,
who interposed and protected him. The assailants withdrew, and here
ended all appearance of force. But Captain Stanhope thought proper to
write to the Governor, which brought on the correspondence published in
the papers of Europe. Lest you should not have seen it, I enclose it, as
cut from a London paper; though not perfectly exact, it is substantially
so. You will doubtless judge, that Governor Bowdoin referred him
properly to the laws for redress, as he was obliged to do, and as would
have been done in England, in a like case. Had he applied to the courts,
the question would have been whether they would have punished Dunbar.
This must be answered now by conjecture only; and, to form that
conjecture, every man must ask himself, whether he would not have done
as Dunbar did; and whether the people should not have permitted him to
return to Stanhope the twenty-four lashes. This affair has been stated
in the London papers, without mixing with it one circumstance of truth.
In your letter of the 27th of June, you were so good as to tell me that
you should shortly send off some of the books I had taken the liberty to
ask you to get for me, and that your correspondent at Bayonne would give
me notice of their arrival there. Not having heard from him, I mention
it to you, lest they should be stopped any where.
I am, with great respect, Dear Sir,
your most obedient, humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXXII.--TO RICHARD O’BRYAN, November 4, 1785
TO RICHARD O’BRYAN.
Paris, November 4, 1785.
Sir,
I wrote you a short letter on the 29th of September, acknowledging the
receipt of yours of August the 24th, from Algiers, and promising that
you should hear further from me soon. Mr. Adams, the American minister
at London, and myself, have agreed to authorize the bearer hereof, Mr.
Lambe, to treat for your redemption, and that of your companions taken
in American vessels, and, if it can be obtained for sums within
our power, we shall have the money paid. But in this we act without
instruction from Congress, and are therefore obliged to take the
precaution of requiring, that you bind your owners for yourself and
crew, and the other captain, in like manner, his owners for himself and
crew, and that each person separately make himself answerable for his
own redemption, in case Congress requires it. I suppose Congress will
not require it: but we have no authority to decide that, but must leave
it to their own decision; which renders necessary the precautions I have
mentioned, in order to justify ourselves for undertaking to redeem you
without orders. Mr. Lambe is instructed to make no bargain without your
approbation, and that of the other prisoners, each for himself. We also
direct him to relieve your present necessities. I sincerely wish you
a speedy deliverance from your distresses, and a happy return to your
family.
I am, Sir, your most obedient, humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER CXXXIII.--TO W. W. SEWARD, November 12,1785
TO W. W. SEWARD.
Paris, November 12,1785.
Sir,