of June the 15th; and delivered the letter therein enclosed, from the
President of Congress to the King. I took an opportunity of asking the
Count de Vergennes, whether the Chevalier Luzerne proposed to return to
America. He answered me that he did; and that he was here, for a
time only, to arrange his private affairs. Of course, this stopped my
proceeding further in compliance with the hint in your letter. I knew
that the Chevalier Luzerne still retained the character of minister
to Congress, which occasioned my premising the question I did. But,
notwithstanding the answer, which indeed was the only one the Count de
Vergennes could give me, I believe it is not expected that the Chevalier
will return to America: that he is waiting an appointment here, to some
of their embassies, or some other promotion, and in the mean time, as a
favor, is permitted to retain his former character. Knowing the esteem
borne him in America, I did not suppose it would be wished, that I
should add any thing which might occasion an injury to him; and the
rather, as I presumed that, at this time, there did not exist the same
reason for wishing the arrival of a minister in America, which perhaps
existed there at the date of your letter. Count Adhemar is just arrived
from London, on account of a paralytic disease with which he has been
struck. It does not seem improbable, that his place will be supplied,
and perhaps by the Chevalier de la Luzerne.
A French vessel has lately refused the salute to a British armed vessel
in the channel. The _Chargé des Affaires_ of Great Britain at this court
(their ambassador having gone to London a few days ago) made this the
subject of a conference with the Count de Vergennes, on Tuesday last.
He told me that the Count explained the transaction as the act of
the individual master of the French vessel, not founded in any public
orders. His earnestness, and his endeavors to find terms sufficiently
soft to express the Count’s explanation, had no tendency to lessen any
doubts I might have entertained on this subject. I think it possible the
refusal may have been by order: nor can I believe that Great Britain is
in a condition to resent it, if it was so. In this case, we shall see it
repeated by France and her example will then be soon followed by other
nations. The news-writers bring together this circumstance with
the departure of the French ambassador from London, and the English
ambassador from Paris, the manoeuvring of the French fleet just off the
channel, the collecting some English vessels of war in the channel, the
failure of a commercial treaty between the two countries, and a severe
_Arrêt_ here against English manufacturers, as foreboding war. It is
possible that the fleet of manoeuvre, the refusal of the salute, and the
English fleet of observation, may have a connexion with one another. But
I am persuaded the other facts are totally independent of these, and
of one another, and are accidentally brought together in point of time.
Neither nation is in a condition to go to war: Great Britain, indeed,
the least so of the two. The latter power, or rather its monarch, as
Elector of Hanover, has lately confederated with the King of Prussia and
others of the Germanic body, evidently in opposition to the Emperor’s
designs on Bavaria. An alliance, too, between the Empress of Russia
and the Republic of Venice, seems to have had him in view, as he had
meditated some exchange of territory with that republic. This desertion
of the powers heretofore thought friendly to him, seems to leave no
issue for his ambition, but on the side of Turkey. His demarkation
with that country is still unsettled. His difference with the Dutch
is certainly agreed. The articles are not yet made public; perhaps not
quite adjusted. Upon the whole, we may count on another year’s peace in
Europe, and that our friends will not, within that time, be brought into
any embarrassments, which might encourage Great Britain to be difficult
in settling the points still unsettled between us.
You have, doubtless, seen in the papers, that this court was sending
two vessels into the south sea, under the conduct of a Captain Peyrouse.
They give out, that the object is merely for the improvement of our
knowledge of the geography of that part of the globe. And certain it is,
that they carry men of eminence in different branches of science.
Their loading, however, as detailed in conversations, and some other
circumstances, appeared to me to indicate some other design: perhaps
that of colonizing on the western coast of America; or, it may be, only
to establish one or more factories there, for the fur-trade. Perhaps
we may be little interested in either of these objects. But we are
interested in another, that is, to know whether they are perfectly
weaned from the desire of possessing continental colonies in America.
Events might arise, which would render it very desirable for Congress
to be satisfied they have no such wish. If they would desire a colony on
the western side of America, I should not be quite satisfied that they
would refuse one which should offer itself on the eastern side. Captain
Paul Jones being at L’Orient, within a day’s journey of Brest, where
Captain Peyrouse’s vessels lay, I desired him, if he could not satisfy
himself at L’Orient of the nature of this equipment, to go to Brest for
that purpose: conducting himself so as to excite no suspicion that we
attended at all to this expedition. His discretion can be relied on,
and his expenses for so short a journey will be a trifling price for
satisfaction on this point. I hope, therefore, that my undertaking
that the expenses of his journey shall be reimbursed him, will not be
disapproved.
A gentleman lately arrived from New York tells me, he thinks it will be
satisfactory to Congress, to be informed of the effect produced here by
the insult of Longchamps on Monsieur de Marbois. Soon after my arrival
in France last summer, it was the matter of a conversation between the
Count de Vergennes and myself. I explained to him the effect of the
judgment against Longchamps. He did not say that it was satisfactory,
but neither did he say a word from which I could collect that it was not
so. The conversation was not official, because foreign to the character
in which I then was. He has never mentioned a word on the subject to me
since, and it was not for me to introduce it at any time. I have never
once heard it mentioned in conversation, by any person of this country,
and have no reason to suppose that there remains any uneasiness on the
subject. I have indeed been told, that they had sent orders to make
a formal demand of Longchamps from Congress, and had immediately
countermanded these orders. You know whether this be true. If it be, I
should suspect the first orders to have been surprised from them by some
exaggeration, and that the latter was a correction of their error,
in the moment of further reflection. Upon the whole, there certainly
appears to me no reason to urge the State, in which the fact happened,
to any violation of their laws, nor to set a precedent which might
hereafter be used in cases more interesting to us than the late one.
In a late conversation with the Count de Vergennes, he asked me if the
condition of our finances was improving. He did not make an application
of the question to the arrearages of their interest, though perhaps
he meant that I should apply it. I told him the impost still found
obstacles, and explained to him the effects which I hoped from our land
office. Your letter of the 15th of April did not come to hand till
the 27th ultimo. I enclose a letter from Mr. Dumas to the President of
Congress, and accompany the present with the Leyden Gazette and Gazette
of France, from the date last sent you to the present time. I have the
honor to be, with high esteem, Sir,
your most obedient
and most humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER XCII.--TO THE COUNT DE VERGENNES, August 15, 1785
TO THE COUNT DE VERGENNES.
Paris, August 15, 1785.
Sir,
In the conversation which I had the honor of having with your
Excellency, a few days ago, on the importance of placing, at this time,
the commerce between France and America on the best footing possible,
among other objects of this commerce, that of tobacco was mentioned, as
susceptible of greater encouragement and advantage to the two nations.
Always distrusting what I say in a language I speak so imperfectly, I
will beg your permission to state, in English, the substance of what I
had then the honor to observe, adding some more particular details for
your consideration.
I find the consumption of tobacco in France estimated at from fifteen to
thirty millions of pounds. The most probable estimate, however, places
it at twenty-four millions.
This costing eight sous the pound, delivered in
a port of France, amounts to...............9,600,000 livres.
Allow six sous a pound, as the average cost of the
different manufactures.....................7,200,000
The revenue which the King derives from this, is
something less than.......................30,000,000
Which would make the cost of the whole... 46,800,000
But it is sold to the consumers at an average of
three livres the pound....................72,000,000
There remain then for the expenses
of collection............................ 25,200,000 livres.
This is within a sixth as much as the King receives, and so gives nearly
one half for collecting the other. It would be presumption in me, a
stranger, to suppose my numbers perfectly accurate. I have taken them
from the best and most disinterested authorities I could find. Your
Excellency will know how far they are wrong; and should you find them
considerably wrong, yet I am persuaded you will find, after strictly
correcting them, that the collection of this branch of the revenue still
absorbs too much.
My apology for making these remarks will, I hope, be found in my wishes
to improve the commerce between the two nations, and the interest which
my own country will derive from this improvement. The monopoly of the
purchase of tobacco in France, discourages both the French and American
merchant from bringing it here, and from taking in exchange the
manufactures and productions of France. It is contrary to the spirit of
trade, and to the dispositions of merchants, to carry a commodity to any
market where but one person is allowed to buy it, and where, of course,
that person fixes its price, which the seller must receive, or reexport
his commodity, at the loss of his voyage thither. Experience accordingly
shows, that they carry it to other markets, and that they take in
exchange the merchandise of the place where they deliver it. I am
misinformed, if France has not been furnished from a neighboring nation
with considerable quantities of tobacco, since the peace, and been
obliged to pay there in coin, what might have been paid here in
manufactures, had the French and American merchants bought the tobacco
originally here. I suppose, too, that the purchases made by the Farmers
General, in America, are paid for chiefly in coin, which coin is also
remitted directly hence to England, and makes an important part of the
balance supposed to be in favor of that nation against this. Should
the Farmers General, by themselves, or by the company to whom they
may commit the procuring these tobaccos from America, require, for the
satisfaction of government on this head, the exportation of a proportion
of merchandise in exchange for them, it would be an unpromising
expedient. It would only commit the exports, as well as imports, between
France and America, to a monopoly, which, being secure against rivals
in the sale of the merchandise of France, would not be likely to sell
at such moderate prices as might encourage its consumption there,
and enable it to bear a competition with similar articles from other
countries. I am persuaded this exportation of coin may be prevented, and
that of commodities effected, by leaving both operations to the French
and American merchants, instead of the Farmers General. They will import
a sufficient quantity of tobacco, if they are allowed a perfect freedom
in the sale; and they will receive in payment, wines, oils, brandies,
and manufactures, instead of coin; forcing each other, by their
competition, to bring tobaccos of the best quality; to give to the
French manufacturer the full worth of his merchandise; and to sell
to the American consumer at the lowest price they can afford; thus
encouraging him to use, in preference, the merchandise of this country.
It is not necessary that this exchange should be favored by any loss of
revenue to the King. I do not mean to urge any thing which shall injure
either his Majesty or his people. On the contrary, the measure I have
the honor of proposing, will increase his revenue, while it places both
the seller and buyer on a better footing. It is not for me to say, what
system of collection may be best adapted to the organization of this
government; nor whether any useful hints may be taken from the practice
of that country, which has heretofore been the principal entrepot
for this commodity. Their system is simple and little expensive. The
importer there, pays the whole duty to the King: and as this would
be inconvenient for him to do before he has sold his tobacco, he is
permitted, on arrival, to deposite it in the King’s warehouse, under the
locks of the King’s officer. As soon as he has sold it, he goes with the
purchaser to the warehouse; the money is there divided between the
King and him, to each his proportion, and the purchaser takes out the
tobacco. The payment of the King’s duty is thus ensured in ready money.
What is the expense of its collection, I cannot say; but it certainly
need not exceed six livres a hogshead of one thousand pounds. That
government levies a higher duty on tobacco than is levied here. Yet
so tempting and so valuable is the perfect liberty of sale, that the
merchant carries it there and finds his account in doing so.
If, by a simplification of the collection of the King’s duty on tobacco,
the cost of that collection can be reduced even to five per cent., or
a million and a half, instead of twenty-five millions; the price to the
consumer will be reduced from three to two livres the pound. For thus I
calculate.
The cost, manufacture, and revenue, on twenty-four million pounds
of tobacco being (as before stated)................46,800,000 livres.
Five per cent, on thirty millions of livres,
expenses of collection .............................1,500,000
Give what the consumers would pay, being
about two livres a pound...........................48,300,000
But they pay at present three livres a pound...... 72,000,000
The difference is..................................23,700,000
The price being thus reduced one third, would be brought within the
reach of a new and numerous circle of the people, who cannot, at
present, afford themselves this luxury. The consumption, then, would
probably increase, and perhaps in the same if not a greater proportion,
with the reduction of the price; that is to say, from twenty-four to
thirty-sis millions of pounds: and the King, continuing to receive
twenty-five sous on the pound, as at present, would receive forty-fire
instead of thirty millions of livres, while his subjects would pay but
two livres for an object which has heretofore cost them three. Or if,
in event, the consumption were not to be increased, he would levy only
forty-eight millions on his people, where seventy-two millions are now
levied, and would leave twenty-four millions in their pockets, either
to remain there, or to be levied in some other form, should the state
of revenue require it. It will enable his subjects, also, to dispose of
between nine and ten millions’ worth of their produce and manufactures,
instead of sending nearly that sum annually, in coin, to enrich a
neighboring nation.
I have heard two objections made to the suppression of this monopoly. 1.
That it might increase the importation of tobacco in contraband. 2. That
it would lessen the abilities of the Farmers General to make occasional
loans of money to the public treasury. These objections will surely be
better answered by those who are better acquainted than I am with the
details and circumstances of the country. With respect to the first,
however, I may observe, that contraband does not increase on lessening
the temptations to it. It is now encouraged, by those who engage in it
being able to sell for sixty sous what cost but fourteen, leaving a gain
of forty-six sous. When the price shall be reduced from sixty to forty
sous, the gain will be but twenty-six, that is to say, a little more
than one half of what it is at present. It does not seem a natural
consequence, then, that contraband should be increased by reducing its
gain nearly one half. As to the second objection, if we suppose (for
elucidation and without presuming to fix) the proportion of the farm on
tobacco, at one eighth of the whole mass farmed, the abilities of the
Farmers General to lend will be reduced one eighth, that is, they can
hereafter lend only seven millions, where heretofore they have lent
eight. It is to be considered, then, whether this eighth (or other
proportion, whatever it be) is worth the annual sacrifice of twenty-four
millions, or if a much smaller sacrifice to other monied men, will not
produce the same loans of money in the ordinary way.
While the advantages of an increase of revenue to the crown, a
diminution of impost on the people, and a payment in merchandise
instead of money, are conjectured as likely to result to France from a
suppression of the monopoly on tobacco, we have also reason to hope some
advantages on our part; and this hope alone could justify my entering
into the present details. I do not expect this advantage will be by
an augmentation of price. The other markets of Europe have too much
influence on this article, to admit any sensible augmentation of price
to take place. But the advantage I principally expect, is an increase
of consumption. This will give us a vent for so much more, and, of
consequence, find employment for so many more cultivators of the earth:
and in whatever proportion it increases this production for us, in the
same proportion will it procure additional vent for the merchandise of
France, and employment for the hands which produce it. I expect too,
that by bringing our merchants here, they would procure a number of
commodities in exchange, better in kind, and cheaper in price. It is
with sincerity I add, that warm feelings are indulged in my breast by
the further hope, that it would bind the two nations still closer in
friendship, by binding them in interest. In truth, no two countries
are better calculated for the exchanges of commerce. France wants rice,
tobacco, potash, furs, and ship timber. We want wines, brandies, oils,
and manufactures. There is an affection, too, between the two people,
which disposes them to favor one another. They do not come together,
then, to make the exchange in their own ports, it shows there is some
substantial obstruction in the way. We have had the benefit of too many
proofs of his Majesty’s friendly disposition towards the United States,
and know too well his affectionate care of his own subjects, to
doubt his willingness to remove these obstructions, if they can be
unequivocally pointed out. It is for his wisdom to decide, whether the
monopoly, which is the subject of this letter, be deservedly classed
with the principal of these. It is a great comfort to me too, that in
presenting this to the mind of his Majesty, your Excellency will correct
my ideas where an insufficient knowledge of facts may have led me into
error; and that while the interests of the King and of his people are
the first object of your attention, an additional one will be presented
by those dispositions towards us, which have heretofore so often
befriended our nation.
I avail myself of this occasion to repeat the assurance of that high
respect and esteem, with which I have the honor to be
your Excellency’s most obedient
and most humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER XCIII.--TO CAPTAIN JOHN PAUL JONES, August 17, 1785
TO CAPTAIN JOHN PAUL JONES.
Sir,
Paris, August 17, 1785.
Mine of the 13th informed you that I had written to the M. de Castries
on the subject of Puchilberg’s interference. Yesterday I received his
answer dated the 12th. In that, he says that he is informed by the
_Ordonnateur_, that he has not been able to get an authentic roll of
the crew of the Alliance, and that, in the probable case of there having
been some French subjects among them, it will be just that you should
give security to repay their portions. I wrote to him this morning, that
as you have obliged yourself to transmit the money to the treasury of
the United States, it does not seem just to require you to be answerable
for money which will be no longer within your power; that the repayment
of such portions will be incumbent on Congress; that I will immediately
solicit their orders to have all such claims paid by their banker here:
and that should any be presented before I receive their orders, I will
undertake to direct the banker of the United States to pay them, that
there may be no delay. I trust that this will remove the difficulty, and
that it is the last which will be offered. The ultimate answer shall
be communicated the moment I receive it. Having pledged myself for the
claims which may be offered, before I receive the orders of Congress,
it is necessary to arm myself with the proper checks. Can you give me
a roll of the crew, pointing out the French subjects? If not, can you
recollect personally the French subjects, and name them to me, and the
sums they are entitled to? it there were none such, yet the roll will
be material, because I have no doubt that Puchilberg will excite claims
upon me, either true or false,
I am, with much respect, Sir,
your most obedient, humble servant,
Th: Jefferson.
LETTER XCIV.--TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL, August 18, 1785
TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL.
Pads, August 18, 1785.
Dear Sir,
My last to you was of June the 22nd, with a postscript of July the 14th.
Yours of June the 27th came to hand the 23rd of July, and that of July
the 28th came to hand the 10th instant. The papers enclosed in the last
shall be communicated to Mr. Adams. I see with extreme satisfaction and
gratitude, the friendly interposition of the court of Spain with the
Emperor of Morocco, on the subject of the brig Betsy, and I am persuaded
it will produce the happiest effects in America. Those who are entrusted
with the public affairs there, are sufficiently sensible how essentially
it is for our interest to cultivate peace with Spain, and they will be
pleased to see a corresponding disposition in that court. The late
good office of emancipating a number of our countrymen from slavery is
peculiarly calculated to produce a sensation among our people, and to
dispose them to relish and adopt the pacific and friendly views of
their leaders towards Spain. We hear nothing yet of Mr. Lambe. I have
therefore lately proposed to Mr. Adams, that if he does not come in the
French or English packet of this month, we will wait no longer. If he
accedes to the proposition, you will be sure of hearing of, and perhaps
of seeing, some agent proceeding on that business. The immense sum
said to have been proposed, on the part of Spain, to Algiers, leaves us
little hope of satisfying their avarice. It may happen then, that the
interests of Spain and America may call for a concert of proceedings
against that State. The dispositions of the Emperor of Morocco give us
better hopes there. May not the affairs of the Musquito coast, and our
western ports, produce another instance of a common interest? Indeed,
I meet this correspondence of interest in so many quarters, that I look
with anxiety to the issue of Mr. Gardoqui’s mission; hoping it will be
a removal of the only difficulty at present subsisting between the two
nations, or which is likely to arise.