Q. Did you telegraph more than once to the Governor?
A. I believe not.
Q. Where were you when the train arrived?
A. At the outer depot, Allegheny city.
Q. Did you see him immediately on his arrival?
A. Yes; in a Pullman car.
Q. You went in and saw him?
A. Yes; I talked with him about five minutes, I suppose.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the nature of the conversation?
A. I went into the car, and as I went in the Governor got up and
extended his hand, and I sat down alongside of him. He asked what do
you men propose to do. I told him what we had done--that we will behave
ourselves. He said that he was glad of it, that he wanted the peace of
the State preserved, and that he was glad to see us disposed to save
property. He wanted to know if he could do anything for me, and I said
nothing, but I would be glad if he would come out on the rear platform,
and say something to the boys. He did so, and made a little speech.
Q. How did you introduce him?
A. I just said "boys, this is Governor Hartranft." I pulled the bell
cord, and we went up as far as the round-house, and had the train
stopped there, and Mr. Perkins, the master mechanic, jumped aboard, and
I spoke to him for a while.
By Mr. Means:
Q. How did the boys take the remarks of the Governor?
A. They gave a cheer. I went on to Federal street with him, and a
delegation from Pittsburgh met him with carriages, and took him across
the river.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you go across the river?
A. Yes.
Q. With the Governor?
A. No; in the crowd that went over. Before I left, I had his car
switched over on the West Penn road.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What is your age?
A. Twenty-five years.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you at Torrens station on Thursday?
A. No.
Q. On Friday?
A. I came by there on Thursday night or Friday morning.
Q. Were you there when the sheriff came out?
A. I was not.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. At what time were you arrested?
A. I was arrested on the 30th of July, about three and a half o'clock
in afternoon.
Q. Was there any preliminary affidavit made?
A. I was arrested on a bench warrant, issued by Judge Ewing.
Q. Who made the information?
A. Chauncey McCoy.
Q. Of what road?
A. Of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago.
Q. Have they ever taken any steps to bring on your trial?
A. No. I have asked for my trial repeatedly, but have never got it.
Q. Have you asked for your discharge?
A. No; because I don't want a discharge.
Q. Have you demanded a trial?
A. My attorney has asked for my trial. That is what I wish.
Q. Are you under bail now?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you go to Pittsburgh and renew your bail every time?
A. When my bail expires my bond is sent to New York, and I take it to a
notary public and sign it, and he puts his seal to it, and I send it
back to Pittsburgh.
Q. What is the amount of it?
A. Fifteen hundred dollars.
Q. What are the charges made against you?
A. Misdemeanor, under your own railroad act of March, 1877.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I wish you would state once more just what is the object of the
Trainmen's Union?
A. It was to resist this reduction of ten per cent., and to see if we
couldn't bring the company to terms, and get them to look into our
condition, so that anything of the kind should not occur again. We
thought our labor skilled labor, and we were running great risks, and
we thought we ought to earn more money, that instead of reducing it
they ought to increase it. The object was to get up a union so strong
that the railroad magnates would have to listen to us.
Q. Did you intend to strike?
A. We did, if they did not accede to our demands.
Q. What is a strike?
A. It is a body of men acting together for the purpose of quitting work
in a body--to strike, and leave the work alone--as we understood it in
the Trainmen's Union. We understood it that every man should leave his
work at a given day and hour, and go to his home.
Q. Go to your homes?
A. Yes.
Q. You claimed no right then to interfere with those who desired to
work?
A. No; but we claimed the right to use moral suasion. We didn't think
we had any right to use any violence at all.
Q. Did you claim any right to interfere with railroad property?
A. No; it didn't belong to us.
Q. Prior to the organization of the Trainmen's Union, did you have any
conversation with the officers of the railroad company in relation to
this reduction of wages?
A. No; because we didn't think it would be advisable.
Q. Why not?
A. We thought it better to go ahead, and when we were in shape, if they
refused we were ready to act.
Q. On the 27th day of June, you sent out forty men to notify all the
lodges to get ready for a strike?
A. On Sunday, the 24th of June. Unless our demands were acceded to.
Q. Had you notified the railroad companies of your demand that the ten
per cent. should be restored before that?
A. We drew up these resolutions--that is what Mr. Cassatt spoke
about--and submitted them by a committee of five to the officials in
Pittsburgh--to the local authorities there. They said they did not
concern them, and they didn't want anything to do with them.
Q. When was that done?
A. I think on the 25th.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You mean the railroad authorities?
A. Yes. We then asked for passes to come to Philadelphia to see Tom
Scott. They wouldn't give us passes, and the boys didn't think they had
enough money, with the ten per cent. reduction, to come to
Philadelphia. They thought they could quell us by discharging some of
the ringleaders, and they discharged a couple hundred of the boys, and
this committee were all discharged, and they got around among the men,
and said that they did not want them to have anything to do with those
men, and they closed the telegraph wires against us, and everything of
that kind. So, on the morning of the 27th day of June, we sent a
request for them to meet us in the hall.
Q. To whom did you send it?
A. To the local authorities--Lang, Barrett, Scott, Pitcairn. They
didn't come. We found we could not get hold of the telegraph wires to
work them. On the night of the 26th, on the last train that night they
sent out men on the train--thoroughly loyal men, as they called
them--men that belonged to the Union, and we thought all right. They
carried the news west and east that there would be no strike in
Pittsburgh, and we knew nothing of that, but found it out afterwards.
On Wednesday, June 27, one of our men jumped over the traces, and
brought the word he was going out, and he told us what instructions his
conductor had received in regard to the strike. Mr. Barrett, the
superintendent of the Pan Handle road, had told him with the other
trains he had sent word that night to the men that there would be no
strike in Pittsburgh on the 27th. They told all the men to stay at
work, that the thing would be arranged later; but it never was
arranged. All were under the impression that the bubble would burst
sooner or later. When the railroad officials say they had no notice of
it, and did not know anything about the strike, why we tried everything
in the world to let them know.
Q. In what way?
A. Why they discharged three or four hundred of us, and they certainly
discharged us for cause. I received a letter myself from Mr. Thaw
stating that I had lost the situation on account of being a member of
the Trainmen's Union. I was discharged somewhere near Sunday the 24th
of June.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you discharged before you organized Trainmen's Union lodges on
the Baltimore and Ohio railroad in Virginia?
A. I traveled all over the Baltimore and Ohio, and I came back to
Pittsburgh--part of the way over the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern
and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Mr. Thomas had been watching for me,
and he stopped me. I had not been paying railroad fares, so I came into
Pittsburgh on a freight train.
Q. Were you still an employé?
A. Yes; at that time.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Who was running in your place?
A. An extra man. I got back and reported for duty. I went west and
thought I would lay off at Alliance and go out to Chicago, but while at
the breakfast table, notice came that the superintendent of the road
wanted to see me at his office, and I went over there and had a talk
with him, and the consequence was that I was discharged.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And he gave you that letter you spoke of at that time?
A. Yes; or a few days afterwards, I don't remember which. I don't
remember whether it was at that time or a few days afterwards.
Q. Did you ask for the letter?
A. No; but a pass to Chicago. It is customary, when they discharge a
man, to give him a pass to where he wants to go.
Q. How did he come to give you that letter?
A. I don't know. I guess he thought he could use me.
Q. Did you ask him for it?
A. No. I guess he thought he was doing me a favor, and that I would
return him the favor, if he gave me the letter.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you a family?
A. Yes; a wife and two children.
Q. How long have you been married?
A. Four years the 13th day of last September.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Why did you select Pittsburgh for the strike?
A. The 19th of July?
Q. Yes?
A. I don't know. The strike did not originate there. It was not our
idea at all. Our idea was to have it all over on the 27th day of
June--all over the country--to just stop the traffic all over the
country. We thought the public would look at it as we did, unless they
could get enough pumpkin rollers and snake hunters to run their roads.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was that the day the strike took place at Martinsburg?
A. No; It took place there on the 16th of July.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In making arrangements for this strike, did you talk about
Pittsburgh being a suitable place, or a better place, for a strike, on
account of the sympathy of the local authorities?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. How long were you railroading?
A. Between nine and eleven months--about nine months altogether.
Q. Didn't you think you were managing that western road pretty
successfully, with the experience you had?
A. I didn't claim credit for it. If I had not had the men I had, I
could not have done it.
Q. But were you not the man who run it? You laid out your plans the
same as a military officer, and your men carried them out?
A. After Mr. Lang put the road in my possession, I tried to do the best
I could for it--for the stockholders.
Q. Did you have the interests of the stockholders at heart? Did you
take into consideration their interests more than the interests of the
employés of the road--the men you represented?
A. I thought the stockholders were in about the same pew with us. I
thought they were about swamped, and that we were.
Q. But I mean the question?
A. I was looking at the stockholders interests when I turned over all
the money, and I wanted the boys to get back their ten per cent. I
don't know that I made any distinction between them.
Q. But answer my question?
A. I think my sympathies did lean a little towards the boys, because I
was one of them myself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you act as general superintendent of the Fort Wayne and Chicago
Railroad, while you were in charge of it?
A. I was supposed to be.
Q. Who acted as dispatcher?
A. A particular friend of mine. I saw that all trains went off, and
came in.
Q. Had you a dispatcher acting in that capacity?
A. I had three telegraph operators, but I acted in the capacity of
dispatcher myself. I gave the orders.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. While running that railroad as general manager, what would you have
done if your men had struck?
A. I would have increased their wages.
Adjourned to Monday morning, at ten o'clock.
PHILADELPHIA, _Monday, March 25, 1878_.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock,
A.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, and continued the taking of
testimony.
* * * * *
R. Dale Benson, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where is your residence?
A. No. 260 South Fifteenth street.
Q. Were you a member of the National Guards in July last?
A. I was colonel of the First regiment of infantry.
Q. And you accompanied General Brinton's division to Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; I left with them from Philadelphia.
Q. Did you go with them to Twenty-eighth street, on Saturday?
A. Yes; my position was the right of the First brigade--the right of
the division. I have heard General Mathews' and Colonel Snowden's
testimony in regard to the details, and my testimony is pretty much the
same.
Q. Their testimony in that respect was correct?
A. Yes; the only difference I would notice is in regard to what they
testify in regard to my right. My right was impeded by a crowd of
citizens at Twenty-eighth street. The column was halted on account of
moving the Gatling guns, and I went ahead and told the crowd to leave
my front, and some citizen came back to me agitated and excited, and
said it was the sheriff's posse. I told him that it didn't make any
difference what it was, that they must leave my front. He asked me
whether my men would do their duty, and I told him it was not his
business, and I ordered them to disperse. Two or three others came back
and said they were ordered to march there, and I declined to allow them
to march in my front. General Mathews was in the rear, attending to the
Gatling guns, and I turned the party over to him, who turned out to be
the sheriff of Allegheny county. General Mathews afterwards came and
said they were instructed to march there, and so they were permitted.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was it the sheriff himself that you stopped?
A. I was so informed afterwards.
Q. You knew it was the sheriff afterwards?
A. Yes; I didn't know him, and don't now. I never met him after that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State whether there was any order given to fire at Twenty-eighth
street?
A. I never received any order, and gave no order to fire, nor do I
believe any order was given to fire. The firing at Twenty-eighth street
commended by the men in the rear rank of the Weccacoe Legion. The
company had been brought to a charge bayonets when the crowd seized
this man's musket. I saw them take hold of it. He drew back and fired.
The firing extended then towards the right--towards the Washington
Grays.
Q. Did he draw his musket away?
A. He stepped back about a pace, and fired.
Q. Did he fire at the man?
A. I cannot tell, but he fired into the crowd. The firing then extended
to the right. My regiment was crowded into--the crowd overlapping my
right, which I suppose was the cause of the troops being ordered from
my right to push the crowd back. The firing was desultory file firing,
and I think that the responsibility for it rests with the authorities
who put the troops into that perilous position.
Q. Had there been firing by the crowd before that?
A. Yes; there had been shots from the hill, and stone firing and firing
also took place from Twenty-eighth street and from under the cars on my
front.
Q. What time did this occur--this firing?
A. I should judge about three and a half or four o'clock. I didn't
refer to my watch. Its only a calculation of mine--a guess at it.
Q. Did that disperse the crowd?
A. Entirely--from our immediate front and from the hill.
Q. Where did you remain after the firing?
A. In the same position.
Q. Until what time?
A. Until towards seven o'clock--six and a half or seven o'clock--I
didn't refer to my watch during the afternoon.
Q. Then you retired into the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. State what the condition of the round-house was when you left it in
the morning?
A. I considered it wholly untenable. During the morning, General
Brinton came to me, and we were talking over some matter, and I called
his attention to the fact that we would have to leave the building very
soon. From the windows we could see that the machine shops adjoining
were on fire. At the time the fire was very close, and cars were
burning on Liberty street. I told him that the building could not be
saved, and some hour or two after that the building was entirely on
fire adjoining us, and the smoke was so dense we could not breathe.
Shortly after that we were moved out.
Q. Did the troops move out in good order?
A. In perfect order.
Q. In what direction did you retire?
A. Out Twenty-fifth street to Penn avenue, and down Penn avenue.
Q. Did your troops keep good order during the entire retreat out Penn
avenue?
A. Pretty much so, until we got to the arsenal. There was some
confusion there.
Q. What caused it?
A. I judge--I was on the extreme right--I suppose it was the firing in
the rear. My position on the extreme right prevented me from seeing
what took place; but I have no question that the troops were fired
into, though I could not see it myself.
Q. Did you see any firing along the route from the round-house?
A. I didn't, though I heard shots.
Q. You heard shots?
A. Yes.
Q. State what the conduct of the men was in the round-house during the
night?
A. My observation was almost entirely confined to my own corps. I never
left my regiment, except to visit the detachments on duty, and so far
as my regiment was concerned they were entirely under my control. The
troops in the other buildings I didn't see.
Q. Was there any demoralization discoverable?
A. None that I saw. I never saw men more patient or under better
discipline.
Q. How long did you halt at the arsenal?
A. I judge a very few moments. Probably five minutes.
Q. Did you know or see where General Brinton went?
A. I didn't.
Q. Did any of your men leave you at the arsenal?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. I think five or six--an officer and five or six men.
Q. Where did they join you?
A. Some at Blairsville Intersection and some at Pittsburgh.
Q. How long afterwards?
A. Two or three men joined us in two or three days, and the officer in
six or seven days. One of the men never reported at all. He was
court-martialed--and the officer, too--all the men that left.
Q. A regimental court-martial?
A. No; it was ordered by brigade head-quarters.
Q. Was the officer discharged from the service?
A. He was not discharged.
Q. What was done by the court-martial?
A. The verdict was absent without leave, without criminal intent.
Q. That was the officer?
A. Yes.
Q. What was his rank?
A. Major and surgeon.
Q. If you know the reasons that induced that verdict you may state
them?
A. My opinion is pretty much hearsay. I was not a member of the court.
The proceedings were reviewed by General Brinton, and he can give you
better the facts that led to the verdict. His order didn't approve of
the action of the court.
Q. It didn't?
A. No.
Q. Were the men discharged?
A. The result of the court-martial has not been promulgated as yet.
Q. Had you any men that refused to report for duty when you first got
the call to proceed to Pittsburgh?
A. I don't think there was any instance of that kind. My regiment had
on duty four hundred and sixty-four men out of a roll of about five
hundred and sixty, and some of these men who were absent had made
efforts to report, but were unable on account of lack of
transportation, or on account of being sent back after they started.
Q. Did any of your men who were not able to join you the night you left
undertake to come to you at Pittsburgh afterwards?
A. Quite a number. One detachment reach Altoona and went back.
Q. Which regiment?
A. I refer to the detachment of my own regiment.
Q. Do you know why they went back?
A. My information is--I demanded a statement from the lieutenant--that
General Beaver allowed the troops to do as they pleased at Altoona--to
remain or to return.
Q. Was that detachment the one that marched on foot part of the way,
and was escorted over the bridge at Harrisburg?
A. No.
Q. Did they get back to Philadelphia?
A. Yes; they made a march and detour near Harrisburg, but they got to
Philadelphia. They were on the same train with the First City Troops.
Q. Was there any court-martial of those troops?
A. No; they reported to the regiment afterwards.
Q. What was done about them?
A. The case was scrutinized by me. It didn't go up any higher than
myself, because I thought that the officer was justified under the
circumstances. He merely followed the direction that most of the other
troops took.
Q. Could he have gone on to Pittsburgh at that time?
A. I judge not--for want of transportation.
Q. How many days was it before the road was opened so that the
detachment could have gone to Pittsburgh?
A. I cannot give the exact day. I think the road was opened about the
27th or 28th.
Q. What day was it they returned from Altoona?
A. They reported at Blairsville intersection--that detachment with
others.
Q. When did they report to you at Blairsville?
A. I judge it was about the 26th, probably.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you think the troops could have remained any longer in the
round-house than they did?
A. No; and I didn't see what the necessity was for their remaining
there anyhow.
Q. What was the condition of your command, in regard to rest and want
of food?
A. The men were very much exhausted. They had been taken away during
the night from their homes, and, of course, had very little sleep, and
little or nothing to eat, and, of course, they were very much
exhausted. Still, as they demonstrated on their march, they could do
their duty. I would like to state to the committee, that at no time,
from the hour when my regiment left Philadelphia until it returned, was
there any moment, in my estimation, when the men were not prepared for
any duty, that they were called on to do.
Q. You had some army experience?
A. I served about three years and six months in the army.
Q. Your troops were as ready to do service as those in the United
States army?
A. I never saw any difference.
* * * * *
Walter G. Wilson, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence, and what position you held in the National
Guard in July last?
A. I live at No. 2323 Green street, Philadelphia, and I was major and
acting assistant adjutant general with General Brinton, during the July
riots.
Q. Did you hear the testimony of Generals Brinton and Mathews?
A. Yes.
Q. In the details as to what occurred at Twenty-eighth street. State
whether their testimony was substantially correct?
A. Their testimony was entirely correct, so far as my knowledge went. I
was on the ground constantly with General Brinton, during that
afternoon, and reported to General Pearson, of my arrival with him.
General Pearson was then at the Union depot. The formation of the
column and line of march was stated by both Generals Brinton and
Mathews, and is substantially correct.
Q. State whether at Twenty-eighth street you heard any command given to
fire?
A. I did not.
Q. By any officer?
A. I did not.
Q. State what the action of the crowd was there, prior to the firing by
the troops?
A. The action of the crowd was such as to induce me to believe that a
conflict was inevitable. I was satisfied they had made up their minds
to have a row. There was jeering and insults in every direction, but
the men bore it all patiently. I heard General Brinton, on leaving the
Union depot, state, if I am not mistaken, to General Mathews and
General Loud, that he wanted them to endure, and pay no attention to
anything the mob might say or do, even if they spat in their
faces--simply, if they were attacked, to defend themselves. At
Twenty-eighth street it was absolutely impossible to move on account of
the crowd. The Gatling guns were brought in between the ranks, and,
when the crowd were pushing in and surging in at the end, the
Washington Grays were formed across, but were found insufficient to
keep the crowd back. General Brinton then sent me with instructions to
bring up other men, as the mob were pressing in between the ranks of
the First regiment, which I did. I heard no order given to fire, and
saw distinctly, not only pistol shots, but stones and missiles of
various kinds thrown from all directions. I saw, after the firing--in
fact, it seemed to me that the firing had hardly commenced before the
crowd scattered in every direction. I saw, immediately, Generals
Brinton and Mathews and Colonel Benson, if I am not mistaken, give the
command to cease firing, and go up and down the line endeavoring to
stop the men. The crowd had dispersed in every direction.
Q. How long did you remain in that position before you moved into the
round-house?
A. I should judge it was about two hours, probably three hours. The
firing had hardly ceased, when General Brinton got a note from General
Pearson, to which he sent me to reply in person. Upon reporting to him
the state of affairs at Twenty-eighth street, he directed me to return,
and inform General Brinton that he would like to see him personally. I
did so, and accompanied General Brinton back to the outer office, where
General Pearson was.
Q. Where was he?
A. In the second story in the office at Twenty-sixth or Twenty-seventh
street, at the outer depot.
Q. How was he dressed?
A. He had on a fatigue uniform and cap, and sack coat or blouse--an
officer's blouse--and dark pants, and, if I am not mistaken, a white
vest. He had on shoulder straps, and the mark of his rank on the cap.
Q. Did he have on a belt?
A. No; I think not.
Q. State what the conduct of the troops was during the night in the
round-house?
A. The conduct of the troops was unexceptionable. I was up and around
during the entire night, from one part of the building to the other,
and I saw no instance where the men refused to obey any order given to
them, although they were, of course, rather exhausted, and rather
hungry; yet, at the same time, any command that was given was obeyed at
once, cheerfully and willingly. The slight disturbance that General
Brinton spoke of in his testimony was so slight that I never knew
anything about it until long afterwards, and I suppose I had probably
as much opportunity to know what was going on as anybody.
Q. State whether you had notice of the orders received by General
Brinton from General Latta or from General Pearson?
A. Yes, sir; I had.
Q. Of all the orders?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether General Brinton received any orders from General Latta
before leaving the round-house?
A. He received two dispatches during the night from General Latta.
Q. State what they were?
A. The first one was complimenting him very highly.
Q. Were they telegraphic dispatches?
A. No; they came by the hand of a scout whom General Brinton sent to
communicate with General Latta.
Q. Named Wilson?
A. Yes--of the Jefferson Cavalry. The first were sent off with members
of the Hutchinson Battery, and they never returned. Wilson brought back
an answer regarding the situation in which we were placed, stating we
understand the situation thoroughly, and an effort would be shortly
made to provision the troops--that ammunition had been sent to Guthrie,
and that the troops at Walls station would join Guthrie, and that
Guthrie would be on the way, and certainly ought to be with us by six
or seven o'clock, and stating also that there was no chance for
friction primers. The second dispatch--Sergeant Wilson went out again
and returned about two o'clock--maybe three o'clock--and brought
another dispatch from General Latta complimenting the division very
highly upon their conduct, and stating that the ammunition had reached
Colonel Guthrie, and that he would be on his way shortly, and certainly
would reach the round-house not later than five or six o'clock, and to
hold on vigorously, or if compelled to leave, that we should do so by
way of Penn avenue or eastward, and take Penn avenue.
Q. What time was that dispatch received?
A. I should judge in the neighborhood of two or three o'clock.
Q. Did General Brinton stay as long as he could in the round-house?
A. He stayed as long as he possibly could stay--as long as it was
possible to stay. I think it was ten minutes of eight o'clock when the
order was given for the troops to fall in for the purpose of leaving.
At that time the roof of the round-house was on fire, and the building
was full of smoke, and the only part that was not on fire was the
office building of the upholstery shop, through which we went out. The
piles of lumber in the direction of the Union depot--I don't know
whether east or north from that--were all afire. Shortly before
leaving, I went to the upholstery shops, and could see nothing but a
mass of flames to the Union depot.
Q. Were any guards thrown out to guard the approaches to the
round-house during the night?
A. Yes; as far as it was prudent or possible to throw them.
Q. Were any attacks made on the guards during the night by the mob?
A. There was no attack. It was a desultory kind of firing during the
entire night from every direction. Men would conceal themselves behind
piles of lumber, and in the windows of the houses, and behind chimneys,
on roofs. The firing came from every direction.
Q. At what distance were guards placed from the round-house?
A. It was probably as far as from here to Eighth street--probably two
hundred yards.
Q. Did they remain out all night that distance?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of them wounded there?
A. No; it was on the track side, towards the Union depot. The building
was not defensible at all from that side.
Q. From the side towards the depot no attack was made?
A. No.
Q. How far were the guards out on the side towards Philadelphia?
A. There were no guards there. A part of the Sixth division was
supposed to be in the Twenty-eighth street round-house.
Q. You had no guards on the street leading to Penn street?
A. There was no occasion for them. Everything was in perfect view, as
far as that was concerned, from the building itself.
Q. State in what kind of order the troops marched out?
A. The order was perfect.
Q. Was there any firing along the route?
A. There was considerable firing along the route.
Q. Were you present when General Brinton met Major Buffington at the
arsenal?
A. I was present when he met a person, supposed to be the person
commanding the arsenal.
Q. Where was he?
A. It was at his house inside the arsenal grounds.
Q. How far from the house?
A. Right on the steps--right on the porch.
Q. What took place between them?
A. Well, General Brinton introduced himself, and told him who he was,
and requested substantially--that was he requested permission to bring
the men inside, and, if possible, to get ammunition and provisions for
them, or if not, to allow them to remain there until he could
communicate with General Latta, and get some orders. Buffington
immediately ordered him to leave the place as rapidly as possible, and
leave no men inside. He did that in an abrupt manner, as much as to
say, if you don't go out, I will throw you out.
Q. Had you been directed to Major Buffington's house by anybody?
A. My impression is that Captain Murphy took us there. It may have been
that some person just at the door, or the sentry at the gate, may have
said so.
Q. You accompanied General Brinton to the house?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you meet him before calling at the door or ringing the bell?
A. We met him right at the porch. I think there was a lady standing
there, and the question was asked if Major Buffington was in, and at
that moment he came out. I know that nobody went for him.