Q. Let me ask you the question over again. Did Colonel Norris tell
General Brinton that Captain Aull had an order for him? Did Colonel
Norris repeat the substance of the order which Captain Aull had?
A. Not that I know of. Captain Aull's name was not mentioned, and from
the simple fact that we met Captain Aull, and he knew we were on the
way to General Brinton--if Colonel Norris knew he had an order from the
Adjutant General, it was not my business to know anything about it. I
was simply directed to accompany the colonel on business.
Q. Did Colonel Norris state to General Brinton that the Adjutant
General had requested him to deliver the order to return and form a
junction with Colonel Guthrie?
A. As I said before, Mr. Chairman, Colonel Norris said to General
Brinton that the Adjutant General had directed him to turn his column
back, and pass the Allegheny river, making a junction with Colonel
Guthrie, at Torrens station. Stated that fact, that the Adjutant
General requested him to do so.
Q. And requested Colonel Norris to deliver that order to General
Brinton--did he inform him--so inform?
A. Of course. He came direct from the Adjutant General, acting under
orders of the Adjutant General.
Q. He was delivering the orders of the Adjutant General, as you
understood?
A. Yes. That is what he was doing. That is what took me there. The
Adjutant General directed me to accompany Colonel Norris. He was going
on official business.
Q. We want to get at what Colonel Norris said to General Brinton?
A. That the Adjutant General directed him to turn his command back and
form a junction with Colonel Guthrie, of the Eighteenth regiment, at or
near Torrens.
Q. Did you return with Colonel Norris?
A. I did; yes, sir.
Q. To the Monongahela house?
A. To the Union Depot hotel.
Q. What time did you go back to the Union Depot hotel?
A. As I told you before, I don't remember anything about time; but when
I got back there--when we got out of the carriage--we started upstairs
to the room which the Adjutant General occupied, and was then informed
that they had changed the head-quarters from the Union Depot hotel to
the Monongahela house. I suppose that might have been one o'clock.
Q. In the afternoon?
A. In the afternoon.
Q. Of Sunday?
A. Of Sunday. At that time the fire was coming down the track towards
the hotel. Colonel Norris went before I did to the Monongahela house,
and I followed him shortly afterwards.
Q. Did you hear him make any report to the Adjutant General?
A. I did not; no, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you present when Captain Aull received the orders from the
Adjutant General?
A. I was not.
Q. Did General Latta order Colonel Norris to proceed with any orders to
General Brinton?
A. He did; yes, sir.
Q. Were you ordered to accompany him?
A. I was.
Q. When you reached General Brinton, what reason did he give for not
returning to the city of Pittsburgh or Sharpsburg?
A. I stated before that he complained that his command had been without
food for twenty-four hours, that he had been fired on from every street
corner in the city, that he was anxious to get to the open country,
where he could entrench himself, and take up a position to protect his
men. He declined to return and make any junction with any troops, or to
have anything to do with any troops.
Q. Did Colonel Norris ask him to fall back to Sharpsburg, near the
railroad, where he could be supplied with ammunition and food?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he ask him to go to Pittsburgh at all?
A. I think not. If you will allow me to make a remark here, that at
that time trains on the Valley road I believe had been stopped. On our
road towards Brinton, after we had crossed the Allegheny river, we
found the West Pennsylvania road was running, and I then remarked to
Colonel Norris that if Brinton would come back to the river, I would
see that rations were sent up the West Pennsylvania road, knowing that
we could provide his troops with rations.
Q. He was to form a junction with Guthrie's troops where?
A. He was requested to go to Torrens station, or to go as near Torrens
station as he possibly could.
Q. That is where Guthrie was stationed?
A. Yes; where the Eighteenth regiment was.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did you see General Loud there?
A. I did; yes, sir.
Q. Was he present during the time that this talk occurred between
Colonel Norris and General Brinton?
A. That I cannot say. There were several of General Brinton's staff
with him; but when we halted we left the line of the troops, and went
down to the banks of this stream I speak of. There was several of his
staff officers, and some of the colonels, whose names I am not
acquainted with.
Q. Did you see General Matthews with him?
A. I do not remember.
Q. There were several of his staff officers?
A. They were all strangers to me.
Q. How many of his staff officers were present at the time this
conversation occurred?
A. I suppose there were five or six gentlemen present scattered around.
Whether they were listening to the conversation or not I cannot pretend
to say.
Q. What time was Colonel Norris and General Brinton talking this matter
over?
A. How long?
Q. Yes?
A. I suppose twenty minutes. I know it was a longer time than I wanted
to stay. I was anxious to get back.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was he sitting down?
A. Yes; sitting on the bank of the stream.
Q. Not sitting on a log?
A. Not on a log.
Q. On a rock?
A. I might have been sitting on a log or rock. I know I sat down on the
grass. It was very dusty and very hot, and we all took a drink out of
the stream.
Q. This conversation took place while they were sitting there together?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. A number of the officers sat with them?
A. Yes; sitting scattered around, some standing. You know how it is
yourself, colonel, when you have a consultation with officers.
Q. Did Colonel Norris make any other business known to General Brinton,
except this one matter?
A. I do not know, they had some little private conversation between
themselves.
Q. This one matter was all--the business matter that you heard talked
over between them?
A. So far as I was concerned. That was the business that took me out
there, that was all I know.
Q. When that concluded, then you turned about and left?
A. Yes; walked back nearly to the Sharpsburg bridge, and found our
carriage, and returned through the mob at considerable trouble.
Q. There was a mob following them at that time?
A. No, sir; nobody.
Q. You spoke about a mob--you found the mob after you got back?
A. Yes; Colonel Norris and myself had some considerable difficulty, and
were stopped on our road back by a mounted guide, or vidette, or
something--I don't know who he was, or what he was after. He followed
us for some considerable time, and came up and addressed us.
Q. What was your understanding of the nature of the business that you
pursued Brinton? For what purpose did you pursue Brinton?
A. Why we pursued Brinton?
Q. Yes.
A. My understanding was, that he was to go back and form a junction
with Colonel Guthrie, and march into the city of Pittsburgh.
Q. Was that your understanding before you left the head-quarters of
General Latta?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know how you got that impression?
A. By being in consultation with the Adjutant General and the balance
of the staff during the entire night.
Q. And conversation?
A. Yes, sir; we were consulting together, of course, about the most
feasible means or measures--what to do with this exigency there. If you
remember, we were but a handful of men ourselves, and there all night
long. Could not get our troops into Pittsburgh, wires were cut, lines
of railroad were stopped, and our great anxiety was to get as many
troops as possible into the city to protect the city. The idea was,
this first division would make a junction--that the Fourteenth and
Nineteenth regiments having disbanded, you might say virtually
disbanded. Having left the Eighteenth regiment at three o'clock in the
morning, it was our desire to get the First division form a junction
with the Eighteenth regiment, and come into the city to protect
property which was then on fire.
Q. Where did Brinton say he was going to when he was asked to return,
and refused to?
A. He said he was going to the open country, where he would entrench,
and take up a position to protect his troops. Whether he was going to
Butler county or further north, I do not know. That was his
remark--that he was going to the open country. Where he found that open
country is more than I know, if he ever did find it. We did hear that
he was marching to Philadelphia.
Q. Did General Brinton say anything that would lead you to think that
he did not recognize Colonel Norris as an officer?
A. Did he say to us?
Q. Did he make any remarks to that effect, that led you to think he did
not recognize him?
A. No, sir.
* * * * *
THURSDAY EVENING, _April 18, 1878_.
The committee met, at the call of the chairman, in Senate committee
room No. 6. All present except Mr. Larrabee. Mr. Lindsey in the chair.
* * * * *
David Branson, _sworn_:
Q. State your residence?
A. No. 1315, South Broad street, Philadelphia.
Q. What is your business?
A. Coal merchant.
Q. A member of the National Guard?
A. Yes; I was last secretary, and am still quarter-master, of the Sixth
regiment of infantry; but during the commotion acted as brigade
quartermaster and commissary, on the staff of General Loud, commanding
the Second brigade of the First division.
Q. Did you accompany the troops to Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; in the first expedition that started, and remained with the
division until it returned in August. Present for duty all the time.
Q. On Saturday evening, state where you were--what your position was,
on Saturday evening of the troubles at Pittsburgh?
A. I was on duty with the brigade in the yards of the company, between
the Union Depot hotel and the round-house, engaged in overlooking the
line of the men, which kept back the crowd from that portion of the
company's property.
Q. Were you in the round-house during the night?
A. In the round-house during the whole night.
Q. Did you leave with the troops in the morning?
A. Yes; the last officer to leave the building.
Q. State, if you please, whether the building was on fire or not when
you left?
A. The buildings were all more or less afire when I left.
Q. How extensive was the fire in and about the round-house at the time
you went out?
A. At the time the troops commenced to march out, there had been
considerable burning of the buildings which we occupied, some of which
had been put out, and re-kindled by the burning cars that were run down
against the building. That happened two or three times. We thought it
was impossible to keep the fire from spreading, and decided to abandon
the building. At the time the troops were going out, all the buildings
were on fire, and in some of them the fire had got very extensive; so
much so, that I felt hot when I went through the last door.
Q. You accompanied the troops on their march out Penn avenue, did you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at the arsenal grounds?
A. Didn't go into the arsenal grounds, and didn't witness the interview
between Brinton and Buffington. At that time, I was engaged in
re-forming the troops. They had been broken up by the killed and
wounded.
Q. Were you present when Colonel Norris overtook General Brinton?
A. Yes; when Colonel Norris overtook us beyond Sharpsburg, I was
between the two brigades, the first brigade was marching in the rear,
some of them assisting the men in charge of the Gatlings, dragging them
up the hill. The other brigade had halted to give them time to catch
up, and Major Norris arrived in a carriage or a hack, accompanied by
some other party whom I didn't know, and Norris not recognizing me,
stuck his head out of the side of the hack and told his driver to stop,
and asked where General Brinton was. I told him a little further in
advance, and I would go and show him, and went up with him about one
hundred yards further, and found General Brinton sitting beside of the
road, waiting for the troops to close up.
Q. You walked with him?
A. Walked with him. Walked hastily to him, found him waiting there, and
he expressed great gratification to find the general again, they being
old personal friends, and showed a good deal of feeling in the matter,
and seemed very much exhausted and excited and worn out, evidently with
loss of sleep and over-exertion, and the excitement of the occasion.
Seemed almost dazed in his appearance by the state of affairs. He
immediately inquired of General Brinton, what he proposed to do, and
where he was going, and how much he had suffered. The general told him
how he had got along. He had got out that way in order to find a place
where supplies could reach us, and feed the men and get some supplies
to feed the troops and get a little rest. They were completely
exhausted with want of sleep and food. Colonel Norris assented to that,
as about the only thing that could be done, and asked Brinton what he
wanted him to do. Repeated the question several times in the course of
the conversation: what do you want me to do, stay with you or go back
and see what I can do outside. The General said there was nothing he
wanted so much as provisions. That was the substance of the
conversation. There was nothing in the form of an order given. The
whole conversation was a discussion as to what had best be done, and
what he, Brinton, intended to do, and what he wished Norris to do for
him to help him. He had arrived there with the impression that we had
suffered much more than we had.
Q. Did the gentleman who was with Colonel Norris get out of the
carriage and accompany you up to where General Brinton was?
A. He didn't accompany him. He may have got out of the carriage
afterwards. I never noticed, after Norris got out of the carriage. I
never saw him, to my knowledge.
Q. Was he present when you met General Brinton?
A. No, sir. He might have been a short distance in the rear, following
us up. I didn't see him. He was not close to us. There was a few
officers gathered around. I didn't see anybody else.