By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I wish you would state whether you were present when General Latta
received a dispatch from General Brinton, on Saturday evening?
A. Yes, sir; I was.
Q. Of the 21st. State as nearly as you can what the import of that
dispatch was?
A. I cannot remember it sufficiently to give any of the language,
except the general impression left upon my mind that General Pearson
had left me, and that he had had no communications, and didn't
understand the situation, and stated the condition of his troops, and
how particularly he stated that I can't remember, except that the
impression left upon my mind was that the troops were in danger of
demoralization. There was a certain amount of unreliability, and that
was intensified from the fact that we knew or understood, at that time,
that the Pittsburgh division had gone to pieces, and up to that time we
had considered that there would be no difficulty in General Brinton's
holding his position until morning; that he had sufficient force, and
was well armed and ammunitioned; but the dispatch created the
impression that his troops were somewhat infected with that feeling of
sympathy, or disinclined to take vigorous operations, and I understood
that to be the reason why no more vigorous measure were taken.
* * * * *
General James W. Latta, recalled:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In relation to General Brown--whose duty would it be to investigate
the conduct of General Brown there at that time?
A. General Pearson's duty first; and if he did not investigate it
himself, he ought to have reported the fact officially here. There was
no official report that reached my department of General Brown's
having, on that night, asked any troops to withdraw.
Q. Was General Pearson relieved of his command for any time after the
troubles on the 21st there?
A. He remained temporarily withdrawn from his command until we started
off to Scranton. When the Governor came into Pittsburgh that night, he
found nobody but Brown, and placed Brown in temporary command of the
troops that had been gotten together in the city.
Q. How long did Brown keep that position?
A. I should think from the 24th or 25th of July until the 1st day of
August.
Q. No report has ever reached you officially that he did dismiss his
troops?
A. No, sir; I never heard anything of it directly, except what Captain
Bingham told me that morning, and I did not know but that Captain
Bingham might have been misinformed--he might not have been in direct
communication with his general. I did not pay much attention.
Q. Did any report reach you from Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard?
A. I saw Colonel Gray's report in the newspaper. Colonel Howard I don't
think ever said anything to me about it.
Q. Does Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard mention the fact in their
official report?
A. They don't come to me, sir.
Q. To whom do they report officially?
A. To General Pearson.
Q. Those don't come to you at all?
A. No, sir.
At this point, the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at nine
o'clock.
HARRISBURG, _March 12, 1878_.
The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M., in
Senate committee room No. 6. All members present except Mr. Larrabee.
* * * * *
Honorable A. J. Herr _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. It is made the duty of this committee, under the resolution by which
they were appointed, to examine into the conduct of the militia of the
State. Will you please state what knowledge you have of misbehavior on
the part of the officers?
A. My personal knowledge is not very extensive, but the information
that I received from credible citizens of Harrisburg, is clear and
pointed. Shall I give you what I saw first?
Q. Yes.
A. One day during the riots--what day I can't recollect--but one day
during the riots, I happened to be on the pavement in front of the
court-*house in the city of Harrisburg, and I saw a large crowd, men
and half grown boys, coming up from the depot, going towards the bridge
that spans the Susquehanna river. The impression prevailed amongst the
citizens that this crowd was going over the bridge to make an attack
upon some soldiers that were said to be there. After a time--maybe half
an hour or thereabouts--the greater part of that same crowd came back
from the bridge. Then I saw in the center as it were of some few men
and some half grown boys, soldiers, and these half grown boys, or some
of them, were carrying the guns of the soldiers, and they were
fraternizing with the young boys round about the soldiers. The
soldiers, themselves, all seemed to be in good humor, seemed to know
each other, and passed along very nicely and quietly, and the point of
the whole thing was, that these soldiers had in this way allowed these
few half grown boys either to take the guns, or they had delivered the
guns up, and so they passed on down the street, these soldiers, with
these few boys surrounding them, and I lost sight of them. I was then
afterwards told, that the soldiers had sent word over to some of the
people in town that they wanted to come to Harrisburg, and that they
wanted these people to come over and escort them into Harrisburg. And
then I was told further, that these parties had provided accommodations
for these soldiers--these last two things I do not know, only that the
rumors were upon the street, and at that time prevailing. And the
feeling in my own breast, as well as throughout the citizens, was one
of humiliation, that these soldiers would either give up their arms to
these half grown boys, or send word to them that they wanted them to
come and take them over to Harrisburg, or that they allowed them to
take their arms. That is what I saw, and all I saw.
Q. How many of the soldiers were there?
A. That I cannot tell, because you know how difficult it is in a moving
crowd to tell just about how many. I should suppose, maybe, there were
six or seven or eight, or thereabouts. I am not accurate in regard to
that, but there was a goodly squad.
Q. Were there any officers among them?
A. That I can't tell. You know I couldn't see very well, in the first
place.
Q. Did you notice whether they were uniformed or not?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. No officers then?
A. That I could not say. I did hear that there was either a lieutenant
or captain, but I am not positive in regard to that, but those were the
general facts that I witnessed.
Q. How large was the crowd of half grown boys around them?
A. I should suppose, maybe, there were ten or twelve, that is, of the
immediate crowd, that also was looking on, were attached to the body of
men that were bringing the soldiers over. You might say that, perhaps,
there were ten or twelve; but the crowd outside of the immediate circle
of young fellows that had the guns was larger, and for the most part I
guess they were spectators.
Q. When they went over the bridge in going out, how large a crowd was
there?
A. It was a pretty large crowd, perhaps it numbered--I really don't
know, but should suppose that that crowd may have numbered two hundred
or thereabouts, but they didn't all go across the bridge, because I was
told that the bridge-keeper kept them back, and would not let them all
go, but I suppose the van of the crowd got over before they closed the
gates.
Q. What is the bridge-keepers name--give it in full if you can?
A. That I can't tell; but I will get it and hand it to you, or to one
of the gentlemen. I might get it in the Senate chamber. I guess, maybe,
Mr. Childs could tell it.
Q. Which bridge was it, the covered bridge?
A. Yes, sir; that was about all I saw then. Shortly after, or some time
after that, a gentleman by the name of Major Mumma--Major David
Mumma----
Q. Do you know what those boys did with that squad?
A. I said that I heard that they took them down to some hotel and
provided meals for them, and furnished them, I was also told, with
means to get away. That I only heard.
Q. Do you know what hotel it was?
A. My recollection is it was some hotel--Boyer's hotel, on the
railroad. I may be mistaken in regard to that. Some of the hotels down
in that neighborhood. I was going to say that Major David Mumma, of
this city, told me, and I have no doubt it is true, but he can give it
you first hand, that he had occasion to go out to his farm, and to
reach that farm he had to pass a little town by the name of Progress,
and there he found a number of soldiers, and, I understood him to say,
the officers with their epaulets torn off, and their buttons cut off,
and very much excited and alarmed; and that they told him they had
come, I don't know where, over the mountains and through the valleys,
and all that sort of thing, and there they were.
Q. These are the ones you alluded to?
A. Partly.
Q. Where were they found?
A. In a little tavern in the little town by the name of Progress, near
here. I would rather you would get the full statement direct from the
major in regard to that. I can repeat what he said, but you can get it
first hand.
Q. This was the party that was captured by the boys?
A. No, no. I just told you what I saw. Now I am only referring to what
Major Mumma and other citizens told me about a squad of soldiers, and
they characterized them as officers, epaulets cut off and buttons cut
off, in a little tavern in a little town called Progress, near this
city, and he described their alarm, and what he did to get them safe to
the arsenal.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did it appear to you that the boys had taken these soldiers
prisoners? Did they treat them as prisoners, escort them in unarmed?
A. You could hardly use the word prisoners, because the prisoners
seemed to be so willing. They were rather captives.
Q. A prisoner generally makes a show to go willingly?
A. It would only be an opinion as to whether the boys--my own opinion
is, that the boys did not capture them in the sense of these men
resisting, and finally conquered them, but rather think that I believe
what I was told afterwards is true--that is, that the soldiers had,
some way or other, sent word here, and those fellows had gone over
there.
Q. They wanted the boys to capture them?
A. I rather think so from what I was told.
Q. Did the soldiers carry arms?
A. No; the boys were carrying the arms.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. This crowd, when they started out--you could tell something by the
way in which they started, whether they were moving toward an objective
point?
A. Oh, yes, sir.