The committee met, pursuant to adjournment.
All members present except Messrs. Lindsey and Larrabee.
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P. J. Young, _sworn_:
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Where is your residence?
A. No. 61 Fountain street.
Q. What is your occupation, sir?
A. Police officer.
Q. Were you on the force at the time of the riots, in July?
A. I was one of the men that was dropped at the time of the
reduction--suspended.
Q. Were you on duty on Thursday and Thursday night, at the railroad?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to state what occurred there?
A. Well, on Thursday, about noon, I think, Mayor McCarthy called--came
to my place where I lived, and told me to hurry down to the mayor's
office, I was wanted. I went down, and met Chief Dimick, and he told me
I was wanted on the Pennsylvania railroad, there was a strike. I asked
him if I was to act as a police officer, and he says, Yes, I was only
suspended. I went out and met Mr. Butler at the Union depot. I believe
he is the depot master there, and I told him I was sent out there by
the mayor's orders. He sent out a car with me and two more officers to
Twenty-eighth street, where we joined more police out there. When I
arrived there, there was a large crowd of people congregated upon
Twenty-eighth street, along the railroad, and remained there until two
or three o'clock. I don't know exactly what time.
Q. In the afternoon?
A. Yes. Then me and four officers were detailed to go on board of a
double-header. There was a train going out. I went on the first engine,
with another officer, as I understood for a protection for the
engineer, as far as East Liberty. The train started, and moved on a
little piece up the track, and a crowd of, I couldn't say how many,
came in front and motioned their hands at the engineer. I said to the
engineer, go ahead. He made some remark, and he jumped off the engine.
I remained there on the engine, and finally the fireman jumped off. I
stood there for some time, thinking they might come back again. They
didn't, and I got off, and was asked by, I think, Mr. Fox--he is police
officer of the company--if I wouldn't go on the engine again. I said
yes. I went on the engine and remained there. No engineer came aboard,
and finally I left. At the same time, the other police that were out
there--I don't know how many--were strung all along the track, keeping
the crowd off. I suppose in the neighborhood of six o'clock I came into
supper here, together with more of the officers, to the Continental, on
Fifth avenue, at Mr. Newell's; we had supper there. After supper we all
went out. A good many went out along with me to the Union depot, and we
expected to get a train to go out as far as Twenty-eighth street. We
stayed along there, and no engine came down to the depot that night. Me
and two or three more officers walked out Liberty street to
Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd of people along there
when we got out. I moved around through them. We patrolled Liberty and
along Penn and Twenty-eighth street, and everything was very quiet. I
left, I suppose, in the neighborhood of four o'clock in the morning.
About that time. That is all I know.
Q. Did the crowd make any demonstrations? Was that all they did, waving
their hands to the engineer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They didn't make any attempt to commit any violence?
A. No, sir; that night they were a very orderly crowd.
Q. What was this crowd composed of, railroad men?
A. I suppose there was some railroad men there through them.
Q. How many was there, do you suppose, altogether?
A. I couldn't exactly say. There was a large crowd of people. They were
scattered up and down the railroad. It was dark.
Q. When you got this train, could you not have run that train out? Did
you have a sufficient police force to guard a train--I mean on Thursday
afternoon?
A. I wouldn't be afraid, if I was an engineer, to run away. I don't
know what might have happened.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have a police uniform on?
A. I had a summer uniform--police blouse?
Q. A regular police blouse?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So that you would be known as a police officer?
A. I had no buttons on it. I had my shield on the inside of my coat. I
wore citizen's clothes all the time I was detailed as a reserve man.
Q. A stranger would not have known you were a police officer?
A. There were a great many that did know me.
Q. A stranger would not have recognized you as being a police officer?
A. No; I didn't wear a shield.
Q. Did you know that engineer that jumped off the train?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know the fireman?
A. No, sir.
Q. How many police officers were there at any one time?
A. I couldn't, in fact, say how many. There was a squad went out in the
morning--some more men that was suspended at that time. I don't know
how many went out.
Q. Ten or fifteen or twenty?
A. I expect there was over fifteen men.
Q. Was there twenty?
A. I couldn't say, sir.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Did you keep the track clear?
A. The track was clear at that time. Afterwards, of course, we were not
keeping it clear. There was a large crowd that stood away back.
Q. On Friday, what did you do?
A. I didn't go out there on Friday.
Q. Why?
A. I think I came down to the mayor's office Friday, and I got some
sleep that forenoon, Friday, and I heard that the sheriff and his posse
had gone out and our services were not required.
Q. Who told you that?
A. I couldn't say. I don't know whether it came from the chief's clerk
or not--Mr. Davis.
Q. You heard it at the office?
A. I heard it, I think, at the office. I won't swear to it, but I think
I heard it at the office. However, I didn't go out.
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