A. He said all of them--the crowd. They would not let him turn the
switch. Mr. Watt said he would turn it. While he was stooping to turn
it, one of them struck him. They arrested him, and after they arrested
him I turned the switch and brought the engine out on the track and
down the yard, and coupled her to sixteen cars, and sent her to
Wilkinsburg with them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was that the same crowd that had assembled about ten o'clock?
A. Yes; it was Twenty-sixth street, and they went to Twenty-eighth
street. The second engine was at Twenty-eighth street. It was the same
crowd.
Q. Had it increased in numbers?
A. Yes; in the meantime.
Q. Who were the men that joined them? Were they railroad employés too?
A. I cannot say. Afterwards I went to the west end of the yard with
another engine. I had the dispatcher at the west end to get sixteen
cars on another track, and I went there with another engine at about
the time the Atlantic express should leave the depot. We got that train
out, and that was the last.
Q. What time did that train go out?
A. It left Seventeenth street about one-five. I got to Twenty-eighth
street before I ought to. The engineers left their engines there at
Twenty-sixth street after we had got the trains ready to go. The mob
got in front, and the first engineer blew down brakes, and got off.
Then the second engineer did the same. The assistant engineer came to
me and asked what he was going to do. I said I didn't know. He said he
would run that engine if anybody else would. The road foreman came up,
and I told him what Mr. Phillips had said, and he got on one engine and
Phillips got on another. Then some person hallooed: "If you move that
engine we will blow your brains out." Then they did not start. They all
went out. There were about sixteen policemen there, but they could not
apparently do anything with them.
Q. How many men got in front?
A. Suppose forty or fifty.
Q. Were they all railroad employés?
A. I don't think they were.
Q. Who composed the balance of the crowd?
A. I am not able to say.
Q. What time was that?
A. I can't say that positively, either.
Q. As near as you can tell?
A. Somewhere about twelve o'clock.
Q. Thursday?
A. Yes.
Q. You say that some policemen came up there?
A. About sixteen.
Q. Who was at the head of the police?
A. I can't say who.
Q. Just explain what effort they made to disperse the mob?
A. We got the train ready to start, and five or six of them got on one
engine and the same on the other, and the balance of them got on the
train. At Twenty-eighth street they arrested McCullough.
Q. Who made the arrest?
A. Four or five of them had hold of him.
Q. Policemen?
A. Yes.
By Senator Torbert:
Q. He was the person that struck Mr. Watt?
A. I suppose so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was not any attack made on the crowd by the policemen?
A. They tried to get them away.
Q. How? With their clubs?
A. No. By pushing them with their hands, I suppose.
Q. What was done next?
A. The balance of the day the men could not do anything. The crowd
appeared to increase all the time.
Q. Did you have any conversation with those men that refused to go at
first to ascertain their reasons for their refusal?
A. I asked what their reason was for not going, and they allowed that
they would not run on double-headers.
Q. All gave that as their reason?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you any knowledge before Thursday morning that such a refusal
would be made?
A. No; I didn't have the slightest idea until I went up that morning
from the west end of the yard.
Q. Did you talk with the men to find out whether there was any
prearranged plan to strike that morning?
A. I did not ask them anything about it. They might have had an idea of
striking, but I don't think the time was set. That being the morning
that the double-headers was to go out, they picked on that morning very
suddenly.
Q. When was that order first promulgated or known to the men?
A. I don't remember the date. I think it must have been a few days
before that, but I can't say how many.
Q. Had you heard anything said by the men about the order prior to that
morning?
A. No. Whatever they did do in the matter, they kept among themselves.
Q. Were you on the ground during the day of Friday?
A. Yes.
Q. Relate to us what occurred. Had double-headers been run before that
day on the road?
A. Yes; the Union and National lines were double-headers, and our coal
trains were double-headers. Some trains, such as coal trains between
Derry--they were running them double for a number of years.
Q. Had you run through freight trains as double-headers before
Thursday?
A. Yes; the Union and National lines.
Q. That morning, the order to run double-headers on all freight trains
went into effect?
A. Yes.
Q. That required the discharge of a number of men, did it not?
A. I don't know whether they intended to discharge them or suspend them
temporarily.
Q. Were any of those men who were suspended or not retained in the
employ of the company among that crowd of twenty that you spoke of?
A. Not that I remember of seeing.
Q. That crowd of twenty was composed of men retained in the employ of
the company?
A. Principally, but there might have been some others scattered among
them.
Q. How are those men paid--the brakemen and conductors--by the hour, or
the day, or the month?
A. They are paid by the day.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What do you mean by the day?
A. In the yard a day of twelve hours constitutes a day--eleven
hours--they get paid extra for the meal hour.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And over hours?
A. In the yard. I simply sent a message again, telling them to await at
Rochester, and to send an escort of men down the road to receive me.
Q. To whom did you direct it?
A. To Colonel Carpenter, at Rochester. I expected he would be at
Rochester. He was the commanding officer of the troops. When I got to
Rochester, I went up and found he had not arrived--that the division
had not arrived. I immediately telegraphed for it to move immediately
down. I found it was at Greenville, and I gave the direction again to
the officer in charge, not specifying any person in particular. In
about an hour, after several attempts to get messages or several
attempts to get answers, I went again for an answer, and after the
instrument fluttering for half a minute, and all communication being
suspended for half an hour, I got a message saying that the troops were
at dinner, and would move immediately after dinner.
Q. What time was that?
A. Twelve o'clock, on Sunday. In the meantime, I had communication with
General Latta. He told me to address him again at Union Depot hotel,
and in the next communication to address him at the Monongahela house.
Up to three o'clock he remained, I believe, at Union Depot hotel. All
the communications I had from him were at the Union Depot hotel.
Hearing that the Philadelphia troops had left the round-house and left
the city, and fearing for my own ammunition, which the mob around me
threatened to burn----
Q. At Rochester?
A. Yes; but which I afterwards saved by going out and stating in a loud
voice, that I had thrown it all in the river half an hour ago. I
concluded to let the division remain at Greenville, and ordered it to
remain there.
Q. What time did you give that order?
A. Probably about half past twelve, as near as I can remember.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. To whom was it addressed?
A. I forget whether it was addressed to Colonel Carpenter or not. I
think it was to the officer in command of the troops there.
Q. Did it reach Colonel Carpenter?
A. Yes; delivered by the agent there. Then I telegraphed to General
Latta, that I was going to Greenville. At three o'clock I started for
Greenville, but didn't reach there until ten o'clock the next morning,
having to go to Ohio. I went to the troops, but I didn't have any
communications from General Latta, and fearing that my ammunition would
be entirely destroyed at Rochester, I thought it best to try to form
the division at some other point, and so I ordered them home. Then I
started to meet the Governor, knowing he was coming from Chicago, but
not meeting him, I returned immediately to Greenville, and ordered
Colonel Carpenter to re-assemble the whole division at Franklin, and by
Friday night I had everybody and everything in camp, and in so fair a
way, that I was confident I could handle them, and ordered a movement
for Saturday morning to Pittsburgh, which no person knew. I had
received a communication from the Governor on Saturday night, to know
when I would move, which I answered, that he might expect me shortly,
at any time. After starting at Franklin, on the way, I received a
dispatch from him or from General Latta, who I don't remember, saying
he didn't think it was safe for me to come to Pittsburgh with the small
amount of ammunition I had. I answered back, I was on the way, and
unless I received peremptory orders, I would be in Pittsburgh that
night. I came there Saturday night; as soon as I came, the Governor
came down--it was raining fearfully--and said he wanted me to open the
road on Monday, and for me to select what troops I wanted to use, and
that night or the next morning, I selected Colonel Carpenter's regiment
for the work, and the Governor sent for me, and said he wanted all the
stock trains moved out that day. The stock trains were moved out on
Sunday, and the freight trains on Monday, without particular
opposition.
Q. Will you give us the time when Colonel Carpenter's regiment reached
Greenville?
A. All the regiment didn't reach Greenville. Some of the companies kept
back in Meadville. Having only one train, one engine, and one engineer
under our control, the officers decided very wisely, as I should have
done, to remain there until the division should be concentrated, and
then move down together. The whole division was not concentrated at
Greenville. There was a company from Ridgway, one from Corry, one
company from Union, two companies from Meadville, and there was one
company from Clarion county, which was not ordered out, because it was
so far away at the time.
Q. The order you sent for Colonel Carpenter to go to Rochester--do you
know whether he received that order or not?
A. I didn't send it directly to Colonel Carpenter, for at no time was I
certain Colonel Carpenter was there; but to the officer in charge of
the troops. I was not certain my adjutant general was there.
Q. The North East company, and the Erie company, and the Conneautville
company were at Greenville?
A. If I remember right, the North East company, under Captain Orton;
Captains Riddle and Curtiss's company, of Erie; Captain Rupert, of
Conneautville; Captain Kreps, of Greenville; Captain Fruit, of
Jefferson; Captain Dight, of Pine Grove; and Captain Wright, of
Mercer--eight or nine companies.
Q. What day did they assemble at Greenville?
A. They probably got there Sunday morning--possibly some of them
Saturday night.
Q. Did Colonel Carpenter, who was in command there, receive your orders
to move to Rochester?
A. He received the orders to move to Rochester, because he replied that
the men were at dinner, and that as soon as dinner was over they would
move.
Q. Did he receive any orders from you before that?
A. No; I don't think I sent him direct orders before that. The orders I
sent before were from Chicago to Colonel Clarke to move the division to
Rochester.
Q. Then it was three or four o'clock on Sunday afternoon when you sent
the order to him to form?
A. No; about twelve and a half o'clock.
Q. Then he had no time to start?
A. No; they were about starting out the depot when I got my order not
to start.
Q. Did you approve of his course in remaining at Greenville?
A. I did. Captain Riddle wanted to move down right away with all the
men they had, but some of the rest didn't want to go, and Colonel
Carpenter said to me that he had got into somewhat of a trouble about
moving, and asked if I approved of his action, and I said perfectly--I
didn't expect the division to move until it was in shape to take care
of itself, and I entirely approve of your course. I went to Riddle, and
called him to one side, and said this thing has gone further than I
expected, and I don't want any more trouble. I didn't want the division
to move down without being strong enough, although we had men enough I
am confident, if we had ammunition, to wipe the whole city of
Pittsburgh right out.
Q. Would it have been proper for him, with the nine companies he had,
in case they were there early on Sunday morning, at Greenville--would
it have been proper for him, as a military officer, to have gone on
with them to Rochester?
A. No. If the division had got into a fight, he would have been the
officer to handle the division, if I was not present. He never got the
orders from me until I ordered him at twelve o'clock, and then I had
reason to believe he was going to move immediately. The troops had been
in Greenville for a day, and they were scattered around, and visiting
in saloons and hotels. The men had to support themselves the best they
could, and they could not keep them together, even by companies.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How do the brakemen get paid, and the conductors?
A. They get paid by the trip.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In case they are delayed on the trip, are the men not paid extra for
the time they are delayed?
A. Generally, when they are delayed any ways long, the conductor refers
his case to the train master, and if he approves of it, they get paid
extra.
Q. Did the men retained in the employ of the company and the discharged
men have any communication with each other on the morning of Thursday,
that you know of?
A. Not that I have any knowledge of.
Q. Did they not have a secret organization?
A. I believe they have an order called the Train Men's Union.
Q. Do you know the object of that organization?
A. No; I do not.
Q. Do you know whether those twenty men assembled there were members of
that organization or not?
A. I don't know. I have an idea that they were.
Q. Were there any double-headers that succeeded in starting that
morning of Thursday?
A. No; not from Pittsburgh.
Q. What time was the first train regularly to start?
A. Eight-forty.
Q. Can you tell us whether between the hour of twelve, midnight, and
eight-forty, any double-headers left on Thursday morning.
A. The four o'clock trains went out double.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many went out at four o'clock?
A. All, I believe.
Q. Were you on the ground on Friday?
A. Yes; I was around there.
Q. How was the crowd on Friday morning?
A. It appeared to increase all the time.
Q. How large was it on Friday morning?
A. I can't exactly say how large. They were coming and going all the
time.
Q. Give us an estimate?
A. In the neighborhood of a couple of thousand.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were they noisy?
A. Some of them were and some of them were not.
Q. Were they making threats?
A. I just occasionally heard them making threats.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How had it been there during the night?
A. Some of them were there all night stopping everything, so that we
could not get along. The engines would stop.
Q. Were they noisy and boisterous?
A. The western engines coming up with the live stock were stopped and
sent back on the same track.
Q. Was the crowd on Friday morning composed of the same men as on
Thursday--were the same men leading the crowd?
A. I cannot say whether they were leading it or not; the crowd was so
big they were all mixed up through it.
Q. Did you see any of the same men in the crowd on Friday?
A. I don't remember that I did. Some of the leaders of the crowd there
on Thursday night had gone to Lawrenceville on Friday.
Q. Did you have any conversation with the train men on Friday about
starting the trains.
A. No.
Q. Did you try to raise any crew on Friday?
A. We had a yard crew still there and two or three crews already to go
out, provided they would let them go.
Q. Were you able to take any trains out on Friday, or if not, what
hindered them from going out?