Mr. HOSTY. I was told to do it this way, and I did it.
Mr. STERN. You said before that you had no further connection with the
case of Oswald until October 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. That is correct.
Mr. STERN. Would you tell us in detail what your first contact was in
October?
Mr. HOSTY. On October 3, 1963, I received a communication from our New
Orleans office advising that Lee Oswald and his wife Marina Oswald
had left the New Orleans area a short time before. According to the
communication, Marina Oswald, who was at that time 8 months pregnant,
had left New Orleans with her small child, 2-year-old child, in a
station wagon with a Texas license plate driven by a woman who could
speak the Russian language. Lee Oswald had remained behind and then
disappeared the next day. I was requested to attempt to locate Lee and
Marina Oswald.
Mr. STERN. Did the request come to you personally?
Mr. HOSTY. To the Dallas office, and the case was then reopened to me.
Dallas was an auxiliary office to New Orleans, and it was reopened. I
had previously handled the case. It was reopened and assigned to me.
Mr. STERN. And by what office?
Mr. HOSTY. By the Dallas office, reopened the case in Dallas.
Mr. STERN. By the supervisor?
Mr. HOSTY. Supervisor of our squad, yes.
Mr. STERN. And what squad is that?
Mr. HOSTY. The internal security squad.
Mr. STERN. What did you do on October 3 and thereafter?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, there wasn't too much to go on, just a woman driving
a station wagon with a Texas license plate. I went to the immigration
office to check to see if they had any information, tried to determine
if we had any persons around the area, I tried to think of anyone who
spoke Russian who had a station wagon and who was a friend of Marina
Oswald's. I went to Fort Worth and checked in his old neighborhood,
Lee and Marina's old neighborhood, attempted to locate Robert Oswald,
his brother, and determined that Robert Oswald had left the Fort Worth
area, had moved to Arkansas.
I then sent out a lead to the Little Rock office which covered the area
of Malvern, Ark., where Robert Oswald was living, and requested that he
be contacted to see if he knew where Lee Oswald was. Then I continued
checking through the Dallas and Fort Worth area attempting to determine
if the Oswalds had returned to the Dallas or Fort Worth areas.
Mr. STERN. Was this a usual or unusual amount of effort?
Mr. HOSTY. I would say usual amount. I went to neighborhoods where I
knew they had been, checked with relatives who had previously been
cooperative, just the usual.
Mr. STERN. Was there any notion of urgency in locating him that you got
from the New Orleans office?
Mr. HOSTY. No particular note of urgency. Just to let me know that he
had left and be on the alert for him.
Mr. STERN. Did they tell you anything about what he had been doing in
New Orleans?
Mr. HOSTY. Not at that time.
Mr. STERN. Did you have any information apart from what you knew before
he moved to New Orleans at that time?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, I had learned before we had referred the case to New
Orleans that he had been engaged in this Fair Play for Cuba Committee
work down in New Orleans. They had told us that. We were aware that he
was in contact with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York. That
was about all at this time.
Mr. STERN. You learned this from the New Orleans office?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. What next happened in your effort to locate him?
Mr. HOSTY. I then received a communication on the 25th of October from
the New Orleans office advising me that another agency had determined
that Lee Oswald was in contact with the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City
in the early part of October 1963.
Mr. STERN. Did they tell you anything else?
Mr. HOSTY. No. Just very briefly that there had been a contact.
Mr. STERN. Did this increase your effort to find him?
Mr. HOSTY. Very much so, yes. I became curious then. Shortly
thereafter, on the 29th of October, I received another communication
from the New Orleans office advising that they had a change of address
for Lee and Marina Oswald to 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Tex.
Mr. STERN. You received that information when?
Mr. HOSTY. On the 29th of October.
Mr. STERN. What did you do then?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, I went to--I checked the Dallas crisscross.
Unfortunately Irving is a suburb outside of Dallas and people
residing in Irving are not covered in the city directory, so it is
very difficult to determine who resides at a given address in Irving.
I then went out on the same date, on the 29th of October 1963, to the
neighborhood of 2515 West Fifth Street, made inquiry at 2519 West Fifth
Street, made what we call a pretext interview, and talked to a woman,
whose name at that time I didn't know, but who I now know to be Mrs.
Dorothy Roberts.
Mr. STERN. What did Mrs. Roberts tell you?
Mr. HOSTY. Mrs. Roberts told me that the residence of 2515 West Fifth
Street was Mrs. Ruth Paine, the wife of Michael R. Paine. They were at
this time separated. Michael was not living at that address.
She told me that Michael Paine was employed as engineer at the Bell
Helicopter Co. in Fort Worth, Tex., that Mrs. Paine was employed on
a part-time basis as a teacher of the Russian language at St. Marks
School for Boys in Dallas, Tex.
She further told me that there was a Russian-born and Russian-speaking
woman residing with Mrs. Paine. She told me this woman did not speak
any English, and that she had just given birth the week before that to
a new baby and she had another small child.
This woman further advised me that the wife of this Russian-born woman,
who was an American, had visited his wife there on one occasion, but
did not reside on West Fifth Street in Irving.
Mr. STERN. You mean husband.
Mr. HOSTY. Husband, yes; I am sorry. I mean the husband of the Russian,
that is right.
Mr. STERN. Did you obtain any other information?
Mr. HOSTY. No, not at that time. That is what I determined from Mrs.
Roberts at the time.
Mr. STERN. What did you do next?
Mr. HOSTY. On the 31st of October, I did a credit check on Michael and
Ruth Paine for the purpose of developing further background.
This credit check showed that Michael Paine was employed at Bell
Helicopter as an engineer, showed no employment for Mrs. Paine, just
showed her as a housewife, showed they had resided in Irving area for a
number of years, and showed a good reputation.
I then checked the criminal records of the Irving Police Department,
Dallas County Sheriff's Office. They had no record for either Ruth
or Michael Paine. Contacted the Bell Helicopter Co. and the security
officer at Bell Helicopter, Mr. Ted Schurman, advised me that Michael
Paine was employed by them as a research engineer and he held a
security clearance.
I then went to St. Marks School in Dallas. I had known from previous
experience this school enjoyed a good reputation and I could approach
them safely. I talked to Mr. Edward T. Oviatt, the assistant headmaster
at St. Marks School. He told me that Mrs. Paine was a satisfactory
employee, loyal to the United States, and he considered her to be
a stable individual. He stated that Mrs. Paine was employed as a
part-time teacher of the Russian language at that school, and he also
advised that in a recent conversation with Mrs. Paine she had advised
him that she had a Russian-born woman living with her.
This woman could not speak any English. She had just given birth to a
new baby, and she had another small child. The husband of this woman
had deserted her and Mrs. Paine felt sorry for her and had taken her in.
Mr. Oviatt went on to explain that Mrs. Paine did this for two reasons.
She wanted to improve her Russian-speaking ability by having this
person who spoke only Russian in her household. Also, he stated that
she was by nature a very kindly individual, Quaker by background,
and this was the sort of thing that she would do to help a person in
distress.
Mr. STERN. What was the purpose of all these inquiries into the
background of Mr. and Mrs. Paine?
Mr. HOSTY. I wanted to make sure before I approached Mrs. Paine that
she was not involved in any way with Lee Oswald, in any type of
activities which were against the best interests of the United States.
Mr. STERN. How do you mean before you approached Mrs. Paine?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, it was my intention since we could not determine where
Lee Oswald was, that he was obviously not at her address, that the best
way to find out would be to ask Mrs. Paine.
Mr. STERN. And you were doing all this in connection with the original
request?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. From the New Orleans Office?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. And that was?
Mr. HOSTY. To locate Lee Oswald.
Mr. STERN. What did you do next?
Mr. HOSTY. The next day was the 1st of November. I worked in the Fort
Worth area in the morning and on my way back from the Fort Worth area
at approximately 2:30 p.m., I stopped at the residence of Mrs. Ruth
Paine, 2515 West Fifth Street, and identified myself as a special agent
of the FBI, and asked if I could talk to her. She was very cordial and
friendly, invited me into the house. At this time, she was the only
one in the living room. Her small children were taking their naps, and
apparently Marina Oswald and her children were, also napping.
Mr. STERN. Excuse me, Mr. Hosty. I show you Commission Exhibit No. 430,
which is a floor plan of the Paine home.
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. Can you show the Commission from this where you went as you
came into the house and where you talked to Mrs. Paine?
Mr. HOSTY. This is the front door, and we talked right here in the
living room. I believe the couch was right along here. I believe I sat
here and Mrs. Paine sat here, right here in the living room. We were
the only two in the living room, to start with.
Mr. STERN. Did you conduct this interview alone?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I was the only agent present.
Mr. STERN. Is that usual or unusual?
Mr. HOSTY. It is the usual custom when we are talking to a person
who is not a subject or a hostile witness, and Mrs. Paine was not
considered a hostile witness.
Mr. STERN. Can you show us from Exhibit 430 approximately where you
parked your car that day if you recall?
Mr. HOSTY. I don't recall specifically. I do recall that her station
wagon was parked in the driveway. There was another car in front of the
house, and it is my recollection that I parked, perhaps, here.
There is another house right next door here which was vacant, and I
believe I parked in front of the vacant house right next door.
Mr. STERN. Would you put your initials where you think you parked your
car, on that exhibit, please? It was about that close to the front of
the house, you believe?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; it was not directly in front of the house because
there was another car. Michael Paine, apparently, had two cars, and he
kept one of them over here and he used the other one where he was now
living. He left his other car here and there was a station wagon in the
driveway.