Mr. FRITZ. Lieutenant Day, of course, made a detailed description of
all of that and he can give it to you much better than I can.
Mr. McCLOY. He is going to be here?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; and he will give it to you in detail; yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. When was the paper bag covering that apparently he brought
the rifle in, was that discovered in the sixth floor about the same
time?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; that was recovered a little later. I wasn't down
there when that was found.
Mr. DULLES. It was recovered on the sixth floor, was it not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I believe so. We can check here and see. I believe
it was. But I wasn't there when that was recovered.
Mr. BALL. Here is a picture of Commission Exhibit 514.
Mr. FRITZ. That is the--do I have it turned around?
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize it?
Mr. FRITZ. That is it.
Mr. BALL. Is that the scene that was photographed by the crime lab
group?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; that is right. But there is one thing that this
picture is a little bit deceiving in one way. This picture is taken
with a man standing, no doubt, on boxes up high like this, standing
down level on the floor. This gun was partially under the end of those
boxes right there. You see the camera evidently took a picture under
like that, and he got a little more gun than you would see if you were
standing on the floor.
Mr. BALL. I want to ask you about a showup.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Callaway and Guinyard and McWatters. You did you say you were
present at that showup? That is No. 2.
Mr. FRITZ. No. 2 showup. I show there Leavelle, Brown, and Dougherty.
It doesn't show that I was at that showup.
Mr. BALL. You were at that showup?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; it doesn't show.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Callaway before he went to the showup?
Mr. FRITZ. Callaway--I will have to look there to see. Can you tell me
something about what he has testified?
Mr. BALL. Callaway is a tall blond man, he was a used car salesman,
used carlot on the corner of Patton and Jefferson.
Mr. FRITZ. I believe Officer Leavelle talked to him. Any of these
witnesses when I say I didn't talk to them, that doesn't mean I didn't
go out and say something to them but I didn't question them.
Mr. BALL. Did you say to anyone of these witnesses, "We think we have
got the man that killed Tippit and he is probably the man who killed
the President"? Anything like that?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't remember saying anything like that.
Mr. BALL. Did you say, "I want you to look at him good because we want
to make the identification."
Mr. FRITZ. Oh, no. We didn't need to. The first witness that went down
with me convinced me on the Tippit killing.
Mr. McCLOY. That is Mrs. Markham?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes; Helen Markham. And she was a real good witness and she
identified him positively and picked him out in a manner that you could
tell she was honest in her identification.
Mr. BALL. We came up to the time you got him in jail that is at 12:05.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were you through with him at that time?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him again?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe we had another arraignment, did we not?
Mr. BALL. You had an arraignment charging him with the assassination of
President Kennedy, murder of President Kennedy.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I went to that arraignment.
Mr. BALL. That was at what time? I believe you showed it at 1:35 a.m.
in your records.
Mr. FRITZ. That would be about right.
Mr. BALL. 1:35?
Mr. FRITZ. I will tell you in a minute to be sure. I show 1:35.
Mr. BALL. That was where?
Mr. FRITZ. In the identification bureau.
Mr. BALL. Who was present?
Mr. FRITZ. That is just outside the jail.
Mr. BALL. Who was present at that time?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I show Bill Alexander of the district attorney's
office, Henry Wade. That was before Judge Johnston also, and I was
there, and I am sure of three or four other people that I can't name.
I think Chief Curry might have gone to this, I can't answer for him,
but I believe he might have.
Mr. BALL. That is one, 1:35 a.m., shortly after midnight was the
arraignment.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, your records show that he was checked in the jail at
1:10 a.m. and it doesn't show a checkout when he was taken to the
arraignment.
Mr. FRITZ. To the arraignment. It probably wouldn't show that.
Sometimes those cards, I don't usually make cards if the man is still
in the custody of the jailers, and sometimes, of course, they might
miss a card anyway because we use a lot of civilian employees up there.
Mr. BALL. And the jailer was there with him, wasn't he?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir. He brought him out.
Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you
questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his
pocket with the name Alek Hidell?
Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember
correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New
Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it
might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was
the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or
something.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. We have pictures of those cards here. You no doubt have them.
Mr. BALL. Yes. We have them. Did he say that he had used that as a name?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me that is a name he picked up in New Orleans.