Mr. CURRY. I believe his name was Mr. Sherrell, who was the manager of
the Armored Motor Service there in Dallas.
Mr. RANKIN. And they would furnish a driver with it?
Mr. CURRY. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What else was done, if anything?
Mr. CURRY. We went ahead with our plans and we instructed the officers
that would be involved in this transfer they would go east on Commerce
Street, north to Elm Street, west on Elm Street to Houston Street, and
then back south on Houston to the rear entrance of the county jail.
Mr. RANKIN. How many officers would be involved in the transfer?
Mr. CURRY. In the actual transfer, I would think perhaps 15 or 18
besides the men that were stationed at the intersections downtown.
Mr. RANKIN. How far would it be from your police department to the
county jail?
Mr. CURRY. I would say 12-15 blocks.
Mr. RANKIN. Were there any other precautions you haven't described?
Mr. CURRY. No, sir; that is about all I know of, except that Captain
Fritz wanted to transfer the prisoner in his car, with some of his
detectives. This is not unusual. He has transferred many, many
prisoners, especially where there is--it is an unusual case involving
more than the ordinary routine crime, so it is not anything unusual to
transfer him, for him to transfer prisoners.
But, it was then suggested or arranged that they would put his car in a
position behind the armored car that we would bring the prisoner out,
put him in his car, and he would have two detectives in the back seat
with him, plus one driver and two or three detectives following him
immediately and there was supposed to be another car to pick up and go
with them or get into a car van with these two.
They would follow the armored motor car and no one would know that
he was not in the armored motor car except the reporters downstairs
when they saw him come out. They would see he was placed in a car
instead of the armored car, and we planned to let the armored car go
over the predetermined route, but that Captain Fritz, when he got to
Main Street, as you go east on Commerce and turned north to go to Elm
Street, that is the second street over, when he got to Main Street they
would make a left turn and go right down Main Street to the county
jail, and they would turn right on Houston Street and the lead car
would pull past the entrance and he would duck in and the gates would
be closed and the prisoner would be transferred.
Mr. RANKIN. What happened to these TV cameras that you told them to get
out of there?
Mr. CURRY. They moved them back somewhere. I don't know where they
moved them but it was away from there.
Mr. RANKIN. Weren't their cameras right there at the time of the
shooting?
Mr. CURRY. There were some cameras immediately over, TV cameras, I
think over where I had told them to place them earlier that morning.
I understood when Chief Batchelor went downstairs and I think Captain
Jones of the forgery bureau, immediately prior to the transfer, they
found there were some reporters and cameramen in the jail office, and
Captain Jones, I believe, asked Chief Batchelor if these should not
be removed and he was told yes, they should be removed out into the
basement. When they were removed out into the basement instead of them
being placed outside of the railing--now this is a decision made by
Chief Batchelor, I suppose, because he said put them in the driveway
up to the north. Now this is from where Ruby came. So apparently this
afforded him an opportunity, from our investigation it was determined
that he came down this Main Street ramp.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you determine that?
Mr. CURRY. We interrograted every man that was assigned in the
basement. Also every witness who was around there that we could find
that knew anything about it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did anyone see him come in on that ramp?
Mr. CURRY. There was a former police officer who told us he saw him go
down that ramp, a Negro former police officer.
Mr. RANKIN. Who was that?
Mr. CURRY. I believe his name was Daniels. I think perhaps you have a
statement from him, don't you?
Mr. RANKIN. Is he the only one who saw him come in down there?
Mr. CURRY. I believe so.
Mr. RANKIN. Now with these TV cameras down there how would your ruse
work about having the armored car go ahead and Oswald climb into
Captain Fritz' car? Wouldn't that all be shown on TV?
Mr. CURRY. If it was. We didn't think there would be anybody downtown
to be in a position to watching TV that quickly to do anything about it
if they wanted to.
Mr. RANKIN. You thought about it though?
Mr. CURRY. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What happened? Were you down there at the time?
Mr. CURRY. No, sir; I would have been but I received a call from my
mayor and as I was fixing to go downstairs and I wish that I had been
downstairs because I don't know that I could have done anything but you
always have this feeling if you were there maybe you could have done
something.
But I was called to the telephone and while I was talking to the mayor,
why I heard some noises from downstairs and I was up on the third
floor, and I heard some shouting, and someone came in and told me that
Oswald had been shot.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn how the shooting occurred?
Mr. CURRY. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us?
Mr. CURRY. I was told that someone sprang from the crowd and pushed a
gun into his stomach and fired a shot.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know who that was?
Mr. CURRY. I was told that the man was named Jack Ruby.
Mr. RANKIN. What else did you learn about it?
Mr. CURRY. Further investigation revealed, and some of my officers who
talked to Ruby and talked to his attorney, I believe, were told that he
came down that north ramp, and an investigation revealed that one of
our officers, who was assigned there. Officer Vaughn, who was assigned
to this location just prior to this transfer.
Mr. RANKIN. That is out on the street?
Mr. CURRY. Main Street side.
Mr. RANKIN. At the entrance?
Mr. CURRY. At the entrance to the basement ramp. He had been assigned
there and had been told not to let anybody come in except newspaper
reporters or news media or police officers.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you find out what he did?
Mr. CURRY. We discovered or found out subsequently that he, just prior
to this transfer, that when we found out we were going to transfer him
and not use an armored car that Chief Stevenson had told Lieutenant
Pierce "to get a couple of sergeants or a sergeant, get somebody and
go around and get in front of the armored car and when we tell you to
why you lead off and lead this armored car over here and just over the
route we have discussed, and take it to the county jail."
Well, Lieutenant Pierce went downstairs and got a car and he got
Sergeant Putnam and I don't recall the other sergeant, and because the
ramp that ordinarily we would use for exit ramp to Commerce Street,
it was blocked with this armored car and another vehicle, he went out
in the wrong direction, that is he went north, up to north, he went
north on the ramp to Main Street which ordinarily would not be done,
but since he could not get out, why he did, and as he approached the
ramp, our investigation showed that Officer Vaughn stepped from his
assignment in the entrance to this ramp, and the walk is about 10 or 12
feet wide there, stepped across and just more or less assisted the car
to get into the Main Street flow of traffic.
Now he wasn't asked to do this by the lieutenant, but he just did it
and according to what Ruby told some of my officers, I believe, whether
you have it on the record who he told this to, that he came down that
north ramp.
Mr. RANKIN. At that time?
Mr. CURRY. At that time.
Now this would only have been, it couldn't have possibly been over 2
or 3 minutes prior to the shooting, so apparently he went right down
that ramp and he got in behind some of these newspaper reporters or
news media and detectives, and as Oswald was brought out he sprang from
behind one of my detectives and took about two steps and shoved a gun
in Oswald's side and pulled the trigger.
This officer, in talking to him, he made a report, he swears that he
didn't see anybody go in there.
Mr. RANKIN. By this officer, you mean Vaughn?
Mr. CURRY. Officer Vaughn. He did, I asked him myself or asked the
investigating officers to see if he wouldn't take a polygraph test
concerning this, just to verify his position in it, and he agreed
to take the polygraph test and did take the polygraph test and the
polygraph test revealed that he was not aware that Ruby came in while
he stepped, when he stepped away from the entrance of that door.
Now I am not here to place the blame on anybody because, as I have
said previously, as head of the department, I have got to accept the
responsibility for what goes on there.
But if Officer Vaughn had properly carried out his assignment, I don't
believe that Ruby could have gotten into the basement of the city hall.
Mr. McCLOY. Unless he had credentials, media credentials?
Mr. CURRY. That is correct.
Mr. McCLOY. We haven't verified whether or not he did have anything?
Mr. CURRY. We haven't been able to verify that. There were none found
on his person.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you make any inquiry as to whether or not any of the
police force were involved with Ruby in this shooting?
Mr. CURRY. We got reports and interrogated every officer who was there.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you find out?
Mr. CURRY. We didn't find any officer who knew he was down there or
that had in any way assisted him in getting there. No one.
Mr. RANKIN. You are satisfied that none of them were involved in trying
to have Oswald shot?
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir; I certainly am.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you make inquiry to determine whether there was any
evidence that anyone else was involved with Ruby in trying to shoot
Oswald?
Mr. CURRY. We made every effort we could in our investigation. We were
not able to determine any tieup between any other individual and Ruby
or Oswald.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you make any inquiry to determine whether or not anyone
else was involved with Oswald in the assassination of the President?
Mr. CURRY. We attempted to. Every lead we came upon we followed it
out to see whether or not we could make any connection between Ruby,
Oswald, or any other group.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discover any evidence that would tend to show that
Oswald had any support in the assassination?
Mr. CURRY. No; we did not.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discover any evidence that would prove Ruby was
involved with any other person in the killing of Oswald?
Mr. CURRY. We were not able to determine any connection.
Mr. DULLES. I will just ask one question, if I may, here.
It was Officer Vaughn, I understand, who had the direct responsibility
for checking the credentials.
Mr. CURRY. Of that door, of that particular door.
Mr. DULLES. That door. Is there any evidence that Officer Vaughn knew
of Ruby?
Mr. CURRY. I don't believe he did.
Mr. DULLES. Has that been looked into?
Mr. CURRY. He was asked that, and if I remember correctly in his
deposition he didn't know him.
Mr. DULLES. He testified he didn't know him?
Mr. CURRY. I believe so, I am not confident of that, but they have had
his deposition here, which I am sure would reveal that.