At 1:22 we have a broadcast here that says, "We have a description
on the suspect here on Jefferson, last seen on the 300 block on East
Jefferson, a white male, 30, about 5 feet 8, black hair, slender,
wearing a white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks, armed with what he
states unknown. Repeat the description."
Dispatcher said that to the squad. He says. "Wearing a white jacket
believed to be a white shirt and dark slacks. What is his direction of
travel on Jefferson?"
He said, "Travel west on Jefferson, last seen in the 401 West
Jefferson, correction, it will be East Jefferson."
The dispatcher then said, "Pick up for investigation of aggravated
assault on a police officer, a white male approximately 30, 5 feet
8, slender build, has black hair, white jacket, white shirt, dark
trousers. Suspect has been seen running west on Jefferson from the 400
block of East Jefferson at 1:24."
Then they asked about the condition of the officer, and there was
something about--the dispatcher did receive some information that there
was a man pulled in there on West Davis driving a white Pontiac, a 1961
or 1962 station wagon with a prefix PE, saying he had a rifle laying in
the street.
We have a citizen following in a car address unknown direction.
The dispatcher said, "Any unit near Gaston 3600 block, this is about a
blood bank."
Then 279 comes in and says, "We believe the suspect on shooting this
officer out here got his white jacket, believed he dumped it in this
parking lot behind the service station at 400 block West, Jefferson
across from Dudley House. He had a white jacket we believe this is it."
"You do not have a suspect, is that correct?"
"No, just the jacket lying on the ground."
There is some more conversation about blood going to Parkland.
"What was the description beside the white jacket?"
"White male, 30, 5-8 black hair, slender build, white shirt, white
jacket, black trousers, going west on Jefferson from the 300 block."
Squad says, "This is Sergeant Jerry Hill." Says, "I am at 12th and
Beckley now, have a man in the car with me that can identify the
suspect if anybody gets one."
Mr. RANKIN. Chief Curry, we were furnished a Commission Document No.
290, dated December 5, 1963, that purported to be a radio log for your
department, and it did not have any item in it in regard to instruction
to Officer Tippit to go to the Central Oak Cliff area.
Do you know why that would be true?
Mr. CURRY. I don't know why it wasn't in that log except that these
logs, after they are recorded, they are pretty difficult to try to take
everything off of them, channel 1 and channel 2 is in on them and they
spent many hours going over these and copying these.
This would be available and I listened to our recording.
Mr. RANKIN. That is Exhibit 705 you are talking about?
Mr. CURRY. That is right.
Mr. RANKIN. So if there is a discrepancy between the two, are you
satisfied that Exhibit 705 is correct?
Mr. CURRY. Is the correct exhibit; yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Commission Document No. 290 does say at the heading that
most routine transmissions were left out for reasons of brevity.
Would that be any explanation?
Mr. CURRY. Perhaps it could be, yes. Because these would have been
routine broadcasts. The fact the squad was moving into this area
because this is more or less normal procedure when we have incidents
occurring of any magnitude, the squads immediately begin moving in to
cover officers of the district.
Mr. RANKIN. You were going to tell us about how it came to your
attention about the moving of Lee Oswald to the jail from your place on
Saturday?
Mr. CURRY. To the county jail?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir.
I asked Captain Fritz a time or two when he wanted to move Oswald,
because this is left up to him. Whoever will be handling the case, I
mean I don't enter in the transfer of prisoners. I don't ordinarily
even know when they are going to be transferred.
Mr. RANKIN. Why is that?
Mr. CURRY. It is just a routine matter.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us is that involved quite a few times in your
operations?
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir. Usually it is a daily transfer of prisoners,
and usually the sheriff's office sends up there and picks them up on
routine prisoners.
Mr. RANKIN. Are there a number each day?
Mr. CURRY. I would say perhaps anywhere from maybe none to 15 a day.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you talk to Officer or Captain Fritz about this?
Mr. CURRY. I think I talked to him some on Saturday, because the
newspaper people or the news media kept asking me when are going to
transfer him?
Mr. RANKIN. That would be November 23?
Mr. CURRY. Yes; and I said this I don't know because that would be left
up to the men doing the interrogation. When they felt like they were
finished with him and wanted to transfer him or when Sheriff Decker
said, "We want the man."
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with his transfer then?
Mr. CURRY. Other than to, I called Sheriff Decker on Sunday morning and
he said, I told him and I think he had talked to Fritz prior to that
time, too, and he told Fritz, he says, "Don't bring him down here until
I get some security set up for him."
So, Sunday morning I talked to Sheriff Decker.
Mr. RANKIN. Why didn't you do it at night?
Mr. CURRY. This is not customary to transfer prisoners at night.
Mr. RANKIN. Why?
Mr. CURRY. Well, in talking with Captain Fritz, and here again the
prisoner was his, and when some of my captains, I believe it was
perhaps Lieutenant Swain, it is in the record somewhere said something
about, "Do you think we ought to move him at night?"
And Captain Fritz was not in favor of moving him at night because he
said, "If anything does occur you can't see, anybody can immediately
get out of sight, and if anything is going to happen we want to know
where we can see and see what is happening."
Mr. RANKIN. Were you fearful something might happen?
Mr. CURRY. I didn't know. I thought it could happen because of a
feeling of a great number of people. But I certainly didn't think
anything to happen in city hall. I thought that if anything did happen
to him it would probably be en route from the city jail to the county
jail.
Mr. RANKIN. What precautions did you take?
Mr. CURRY. The precautions that were taken, when I came in on Sunday
morning, now Captain Fritz, I had talked to him on Saturday night or
Saturday evening anyway, and he said, he thought he would be ready
to transfer him by 10 o'clock the next morning, that would be Sunday
morning.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell that to the media?
Mr. CURRY. I told them at some time after that. Several of them asked
me when are you going to transfer him, and I said, I don't know.
They said, "Are you going to transfer him tonight," and I said, "No, we
are not going to transfer him tonight." I said, "We are tired. We are
going home and get some rest."
Something was said about well, we are tired, too. When should we come
back, and I think that this is recorded in some of the tape recording,
that I told them if you are back here by 10 o'clock in the morning, I
don't think that you would miss anything you want to see.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do then about precautions?
Mr. CURRY. The next morning when I came in, that would be about 8:30,
8:45, I think, parked in the basement of city hall, I started up to
the elevator and I noticed they had moved some cameras into a hallway
down in the basement and I told Lieutenant Wiggins who is in the jail
office, I said, "These things will have to be moved out of here, and
I also told Chief Batchelor, and Chief Stevenson, Assistant Chief
Batchelor, and Assistant Chief in Charge of Investigations Stevenson
who came down in the basement at the time.
Mr. RANKIN. Those were TV cameras?
Mr. CURRY. That was in the lobby or in near the lobby of the jail
office. I told them they were--would have to move those out of there.
This was also in the parking area, there was a ramp come down from Main
Street and goes out on Commerce Street, and then there is a parking
area east of this.
I told Lieutenant Wiggins who was there, I said, "Now, move these squad
cars," there was a transfer car there and a squad car, "move these cars
out of this area and if the news media wants down here put them over
behind these railings, back over in the basement here."
Then that is all I did at that time. I saw that they were setting
up some security. A little while later Chief Batchelor and Chief
Stevenson went downstairs and found Captain Talbert who was the platoon
commander, radio platoon commander had some sergeants down there and
they were setting up security and were told clean everything out of the
basement and not let anybody in here, I think the depositions will show
that, not let anybody in except police officers and news media who had
proper credentials.
Mr. RANKIN. What about the various entrances, was anything done about
that?
Mr. CURRY. Well, the entrances to the basement, yes, and the entrances
from the basement of city hall out into the basement proper where the
cars come in.
Mr. RANKIN. What was done about that?
Mr. CURRY. Every entrance there were guards put on it with instructions
not to let anyone come or go except police officers or news people that
had proper credentials.
Mr. RANKIN. What entrances are there to the basement?
Mr. CURRY. This is a Main Street entrance for vehicles, that would be
on the north side of the building. There is a Commerce Street exit
which would be on the south side of the building, on the west side
downstairs there is an entrance from the jail corridor where the public
goes to the jail window into the basement of the parking area. Then
there are some elevators that come from the municipal building, that
come down to the basement level. There are also, there is also an
opening that goes from this basement down into a subbasement where the
maintenance men have their offices.
(At this point, Senator Cooper left the hearing room.)
Mr. RANKIN. And each one of those was guarded?
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Throughout the time?
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. What other precautions were made?
Mr. CURRY. There were a great number of police reservists and
detectives and uniformed officers, I think there was a total, I believe
of about 74 men in this area between the jail office and the immediate
area where he would be loaded.
Mr. RANKIN. How large an area was that?
Mr. CURRY. Well, where he would be brought out of the jail office to
put him in this car, would be, I would say, 16 or 20 feet, and then
this building, this ramp runs from one street to the other, and the
parking area would cover a block wide and perhaps 150 feet deep.
Mr. RANKIN. Were there cars in the parking area?
Mr. CURRY. Some cars were there. They had been searched out, all of
them. All of the vehicles had been searched, and all the, where the
airconditioning ducts were, they had all been searched, every place
where a person could conceal himself had been searched out.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there a plan for an armored car?
Mr. CURRY. Yes, sir; there was.
Mr. RANKIN. What happened about that?
Mr. CURRY. After they had gotten the armored car down there, in talking
with Captain Fritz, and here again this prisoner was his responsibility
and I don't want to be in a position of just overriding him, and I was
willing to trust his judgment, he had been doing this for, like I say,
nearly 40 years, and he said, "Chief, I would prefer not to use that
armored car, I don't know who the driver is. It is awkward to handle
and if anybody tries to do anything to us, I am afraid we would be
surrounded. I would prefer to put him in a police car with some of my
men following him, and get in and just take him right down Main Street
and slip him into the jail."
So I said, "It will be all right with me if you want to do it that way
but let's not say anything about this."
Mr. RANKIN. Now the armored car was not a Dallas police car, was it?
Mr. CURRY. No; it was not.