CONVERSATIONS.

_Paris, Saturday, April_ 17, 1858.--We had a discussion at the Institut

to-day as to a bust to fill a niche in the anteroom. Rossi was proposed.

His political merits were admitted, but he was placed low as to his

literary claims as an economist and a jurist. Dupin suggested Talleyrand,

which was received with a universal groan, and failed for want of a

seconder. Ultimately the choice fell on Dumont.

'Nothing that is published of Talleyrand's,' said Tocqueville to me as we

walked home, 'has very great merit, nor indeed is much of it his own. He

hated writing, let his reports and other state papers be drawn up by

others, and merely retouched them. But in the archives of the _Affaires

étrangères_ there is a large quarto volume containing his correspondence

with Louis XVIII during the Congress of Vienna. Nothing can be more

charming. The great European questions which were then in debate, the

diplomatic and social gossip of Vienna, the contemporary literature--in

short, all that one clever _homme du monde_ could find to interest and

amuse another, are treated with wit, brilliancy, and gaiety, supported by

profound good sense. When that volume is published his bust will be

placed here by acclamation.'

_Monday, April_ 19.--I dined with Lanjuinais, and met Tocqueville, Rivet,

Dufaure, Corcelle, Freslon, and one or two others.

They attacked me about the change of sentiment in England with respect to

Louis Napoleon.

'While he was useful to you,' they said, 'you steadily refused to admit

that he was a tyrant, or even an usurper. You chose to disbelieve in the

3,000 men, women, and children massacred on the Boulevards of Paris--in

the 20,000 poisoned by jungle fever in Cayenne--in the 25,000 who have

died of malaria, exposure, and bad food, working in gangs on the roads

and in the marshes of the Metidja and Lambressa.'

'We did not _choose_', I answered, 'to disbelieve any thing. We were

simply ignorant. _I_ knew all these facts, because I have passed a part

of every year since 1847 in Paris; because I walked along the Boulevards

on the 20th of December 1851, and saw the walls of every house, from the

Bastille to the Madeleine, covered with the marks of musket-balls;

because I heard in every society of the thousands who had been massacred,

and of the tens of thousands who had been _déportés_; but the untravelled

English, and even the travelled English, except the few who live in

France among the French, knew nothing of all this. Your press tells

nothing. The nine millions of votes given to Louis Napoleon seemed to

prove his popularity, and therefore the improbability of the tyranny of

which he was accused by his enemies. _I_ knew that those nine millions of

votes were extorted, or stolen by violence or fraud. But the English

people did not know it. They accepted his election as the will of the

nation, and though they might wonder at your choice, did not presume to

blame it.'

'The time,' they answered, 'at which light broke in upon you is

suspicious. Up to the 14th of January 1858 the oppression under which

thirty-four millions of people within twenty-four miles of your coast,

with whom you are in constant intercourse, was unknown to you. Their

ruler insults you, and you instantly discover that he is an usurper and a

tyrant. This looks as if the insult, and the insult alone, opened your

eyes.'

'What opened our eyes,' I answered, 'was not the insult but the _loi de

sûreté publique_. It was the first public act which showed to England the

nature of your Government.

'When we found, erected in every department, a revolutionary tribunal,

empowered to banish and transport without trial; when we found a rude

soldier made Home Minister, and the country divided into five districts

to be each governed by a marshal, we saw at once that France was under a

violent military despotism. Until that law was passed the surface was

smooth. There was nothing in the appearance of France to show to a

stranger that she was not governed by a Monarch, practically, indeed,

absolute, but governing as many absolute Monarchs have done, mildly and

usefully.

'Of course we might have found out the truth sooner if we had inquired.

And perhaps we ought to have inquired. We busy ourselves about our own

affairs, and neglect too much those of other countries. In that sense

you have a right to say that we chose to be ignorant, since our conduct

was such as necessarily to make us ignorant. But it was not because Louis

Napoleon was our ally that we chose to be ignorant, but because we

habitually turn our eyes from the domestic affairs of the Continent, as

things in which we have seldom a right to interfere, and in which, when

we do interfere, we do more harm than good.'

We talked of the manner in which the _loi de sûreté publique_ has been

carried out. And I mentioned 600 as the number of those who had suffered

under it, as acknowledged to me by Blanchard in the beginning of March.

'It is much greater now,' said Lanjuinais. 'Berryer on his return from

Italy, a week ago, slept in Marseilles. He was informed that more than

900 persons had passed through Marseilles, _déportés_ under the new law

to Algeria. They were of all classes: artisans and labourers mixed with

men of the higher and middle classes. To these must be added those

transported to Cayenne, who were sent by way of Havre. As for the number

_expulsés_ and _internés_ there are no data.'

'In the Department of Var, a man was found guilty in 1848 of joining in

one of the revolutionary movements of that time. His complete innocence

was soon proved; he was released, and has lived quietly on his little

estate ever since. He was arrested under the new law and ordered to be

_déporté_ to Algeria. His friends, in fact all his neighbours,

remonstrated, and sent to Paris the proof that the original conviction

was a mistake. "Qu'il aille tout de même," was Espinasse's answer.

'In Calvados the Préfet, finding no one whom he could conscientiously

arrest, took hold of one of the most respectable men in the department.

"If," he said, "I had arrested a man against whom there was plausible

ground for suspicion, he might have been transported. This man _must_ be

released."'

'Has he been released?' I asked.

'I have not heard,' was the answer. 'In all probability he has been.'

'In my department,' said Tocqueville, 'the _sous-préfet_, ordered by the

Préfet to arrest somebody in the arrondissement, was in the same

perplexity as the Préfet of Calvados. "I can find no fit person," he said

to me. I believe that he reported the difficulty to the Préfet, and that

the vacancy was supplied from some other arrondissement.

'What makes this frightful,' he added, 'is that we now know that

deportation is merely a slow death. Scarcely any of the victims of 1851

and 1852 are living.'

'I foretold that,' I said, 'at the time, as you will find if you look at

my article on Lamartine, published in the "Edinburgh Review."'[1]

[Footnote 1: See _Journals in France and Italy_.--ED.]

_April_ 20.--We talked of the political influence in France of the

_hommes de lettres_.

'It began,' said Tocqueville, 'with the Restoration. Until that time we

had sometimes, though very rarely, statesmen who became writers, but

never writers who became statesmen,'

'You had _hommes de lettres_,' I said, 'in the early Revolutionary

Assemblies--Mirabeau for instance.'

'Mirabeau,' he answered, 'is your best example, for Mirabeau, until he

became a statesman, lived by his pen. Still I should scarcely call a man

of his high birth and great expectations _un homme de lettres_. That

appellation seems to belong to a man who owes his position in early life

to literature. Such a man is Thiers, or Guizot, as opposed to such men as

Gladstone, Lord John Russell, or Montalembert.'

_Wednesday, April_ 21.--I dined with D. and met, among several others,

Admiral Matthieu the Imperial Hydrographer, and a general whose name I

did not catch. I talked to the general about the army.

'We are increasing it,' he said, 'but not very materially. We are rather

giving ourselves the means of a future rapid increase, than making an

immediate augmentation. We are raising the number of men from 354,000 to

392,400, in round numbers to 400,000; but the principal increase is in

the _cadres_, the officers attached to each battalion. We have increased

them by more than one third. So that if a war should break out we can

instantly--that is to say in three months, increase our army to 600,000

or even 700,000 men. Soldiers are never wanting in France, the difficulty

always is to find officers.'

'I hear,' I said, 'that you are making great improvements in your

artillery.'

'We are,' he answered. 'We are applying to it the principle of the Minié

musket, and we are improving the material. We hope to make our guns as

capable of resisting rapid and continued firing as well and as long as

the English and the Swedish guns, which are the best in Europe, can do.

And we find that we can throw a ball on the Minié principle with equal

precision twice as far. This will double the force of all our batteries.'

'Are _you_,' he asked me, 'among those who have taken shares in the

Russian railways?'

'No,' I said. 'They are the last that I wish to encourage.'

'Englishmen or Frenchmen,' he answered, 'who help Russia to make

railways, put me in mind of the Dutch who sold powder to their besiegers.

'The thinness of her population--that is, the vast space over which it is

scattered--alone prevents Russia from being the mistress of Europe. If

her 64,000,000 were as concentrated as our 34,000,000 are, she would be

irresistible. She loses always far more men in marching than in

fighting.'

'The events of the war,' I said, 'lead me to believe that the goodness of

the Russian soldier is exaggerated. They were always beaten, often by

inferior numbers.'

'In the first place,' he answered, 'those who were beaten at Sebastopol

were not the best Russian soldiers. They were short small men, generally

drawn from the neighbouring provinces. The Russian Imperial Guards and

the Russian Army in Poland are far superior to any that we encountered in

the Crimea. In the second place, they were ill commanded. The

improvements of weapons, of science and of discipline, have raised the

privates of all the great military nations to about the same level.

Success now depends on numbers and on generalship. With railways Russia

will be able to bring quickly a preponderating force to any point on her

frontier. Her officers are already good, and for money she can import the

best generals; indeed, I do not see why she should not breed them. Russia

is civilised enough to produce men of the highest military qualities.'

Correspondence & Conversations of Alexis de Tocqueville with Nassau William Senior from 1834 to 1859, Volume 2 · 第 63 / 83 题